Oil change frequency “engines have tighter tolerances”I am 74 years old & an owner of a new 2024 Mini Cooper S 4 Door Hardtop with Signature Trim. I have always had an oil change done after the first 1,000 miles because of pieces of metal off a new engine. Then again every 3,000 miles. With my 2022 BRZ I changed the oil after the first 1,000 miles & every 2,500 thereafter. Now I am told “engines have tighter tolerances” & there is no need to change oil & filter after the first 1,000 miles & again every 3,000 miles; I should trust the owner’s manual and wait until 10,000 miles have passed! They reminded me that even the onboard software is programmed to prompt a time for an an oil and filter change at 10,000?! I saw some people change every 5,000 miles and those who had the temerity to confess that stating it was cheap insurance against an expensive engine repair were not so subtly shamed. How many owners of newer Minis change every 3,000 miles or even less? Perhaps a poll?
How many owners of newer Mini S change oil & filter every 3,000 miles not every 10K?
I changed the oil & filter after first 1,000 miles & every 3,000 thereafter
I change the oil & filter every 5,000 miles
Hey it’s a turbo I change oil & filter every 2,500
Nah, I trust BMW every 10,000

 

Every situation is going to be different. And, oil change intervals are influenced by engine design, oil formulation, driving style, environment, etc. If you are really interested in the best interval for your particular use case, change the oil at 5000 miles, take a sample, and have it analyzed by a place like Blackstone Labs https://www.blackstone-labs.com They will be able to tell you if you can extend your oil change intervals. If you decide to extend the change interval, sample the next oil change with higher miles and send it in again. They will be able to tell you if anything has changed, or if you’re still good. Then ‘lather, rinse, repeat’ until you get to the point where you know the miles you can safely go between oil changes. Beware, however, that if you change oil brand, get an engine tune, start racing, all that testing will no longer apply.

That being said, I change mine oil at 5000 miles, (add one quart at 2500) and change my filter every 10,000 miles, mostly because it easy to remember when looking at the odometer. I’ve sent samples in to Blackstone, and they have said I might be able to extend change intervals, but I don’t think it’s worth the risk for my use case.

 

Thank you for taking precious time to provide such a detailed & methodical answer. I have seen YouTube channels where oil samples are sent to Blackstone but just assumed such an analysis would cost a great deal of money. Please don’t be offended when I ask why do you only change the oil filter at 10,000? It has always been said that SOP is to change it with every oil change, the rationale being why run clean oil through a dirty filter? Thanks again!

 

technology in oil and filters is so far advanced past what it was when you were probably learning about cars. oils can last longer before breaking down. filters are designed to hold more material. there's no reason other than habit or paranoia to change your oil that often.

however, as mentioned, you can have blackstone do a UOA for you. i haven't done one in a while but they used to be around $25 (?) or so. that's really going to be the best way to make sure your specific engine is good. plus, they'll send you comments and answer questions - at least they used to. below is from a UOA i had done years ago. i will say that doing these and reading the results of other people really led me to become a loyal customer of valvoline.

 

Who programmed the on board computer service intervals to take good care of your car or wear it out to sell you a new one? I change oil and filter when the odometer reads 5 and three zeros or four zeros. Other service intervals hit at 20 or 30K depending. By the way, I'm just a bit older and have been enjoying our li'l guy for 16 years and lots of road trip miles and more to come.

 

Tolerances has nothing to do with oil change intervals. Rebuilt engines back in the early 1970s. Main/rod bearing tolerances (and clearances) were "tight" back then.

Oil change interval depends upon the condition of the oil and this is pretty much affected by usage.

With my vehicles a new car/engine first oil change can/does happen at anywhere from 600 miles to 1200 miles. With super charged/turbo charged engines I like 600 miles. Most often halfway through "break in" of 1200 miles. Just so happens my 2023 JCW was the exception. Had its first oil change done at about 1100 miles. A complication was I bought the car in Loveland CO and drove it home -- to Benton County AR -- a distance of nearly 900 miles. While I passed near the MINI dealer in Merriam KS I checked and it was booked up and I could not get an appointment to get the car serviced on the way in Merriam KS which would have had the car serviced at around 600 miles. Soonest I could get the car in for service -- at the local BMW dealer near me had me add almost another 200 miles.

(I had another car to drive but I was in negotiation to buy a new BMW and my 2nd car was going to be traded in. I was reluctant to put any more miles on the car.)

For my usage then I change the oil again at 5K miles and every 5K miles thereafter. And the JCW just had its 5K mile oil/filter service done yesterday.

(I did buy a new BMW on April 14, a 2023 BMW M2. It got its first oil/filter service at 600 miles. Then I had it in at 1200 miles for its scheduled "break in" service which is not only scheduled by BMW but also paid for by BMW. This service is free, as are the scheduled oil/filter services at 10K, 20K and 30K miles.)

I would offer than 3K mile oil/filter services is probably a bit over the top but it is your car and you can service it as you see fit. I think you and the car/engine are better off with the oil services every 3K miles vs. every 10K miles. I don't know about the newer MINIs but I read post after post from owners of the older MINIs with valve train issues, ring and piston issues, and invariably the word from the experts is the 10K mile oil service interval is inadequate. The advice is to *after* refreshing the engine adhere to a 5K mile oil/filter service interval.

Might mention years ago I bought a new 2002 VW Golf TDi in Merriam KS. The factory called for 10K mile oil/filter services. 'course I changed the oil early and then every 5K miles. At some point I was at the dealer and in the service area and spotted a notice from VW that it had deemed the area a harsh/severe usage area -- due to climate, traffic congestion -- and rather than 10K mile oil/filter services now called for 5K mile oil/filter services.

 

As mentioned, filter technology is pretty good right now. Even if the filter is dirty, it still isn't letting the crap get by. A dirty filter isn't contaminating the oil.

Also, on the N18 engine, the filter is in a really bad spot, and its a royal pain to change it out. Changing out every 10k miles saves me a bit of a headache when I change the oil.

 

Used Oil Analysis does a few things. It can determine the ability of the oil to buffer combustion byproducts at the time it is sampled (if TAN and TBN are included, which can be an extra charge), so the need to change the oil can be ascertained. It can point out fuel dilution (but, Blackstone uses an indirect fuel dilution method, which is not as reliable as those using a spectrometer-based fuel dilution method). It can also point out problem areas such as Coolant leaks (contamination). It can show which wear metals are higher than usual, which could point to a specific area that may have trouble (or, it could just be a "particle streak" that resolves on it's own). It can also show Silicon levels...too high can point out an air filtration deficit, or, high Silicon can simply be a quality of anti-foam agent...you'd need to know the virgin Si level to know. It can also provide an "insolubles" number, which is a function of filtration efficacy. What a single UOA cannot do it determine if your engine is wearing well. That takes serial UOA's to determine, and perhaps an expert in that engine (not just a clerk typing in generic comments).

Use UOA's knowing they are pretty good at pointing out some things, but, they aren't great at determining wear. For that you need to be able to tear down an engine and use a micrometer.

 

To be honest with you, it’s your money and your car, so if you want to do them at 3k you can, I would do every 5k. My 2019 rav4 gets it done at the dealership every 5k, I don’t care what they say, our money, our car, our piece of mind that the dealer has looked it over every 5k. Now my r53 is a different little beast, I maintain it, so if the oil starts looking too dark, I change it, every 3-3500. Might be a little obsessive, but again my baby, my time, my dime.

 

What a great thread ! Just let me add - that the older a car gets, the oil change freq can increase for a host of reasons. One being it might be disappearing via burning oil ( rings might be a bit worn etc ). However, if you had a new Ford Shelby GT350 with the flat plane ( Ferrari style ) crank - these engines seemed capable of burning a quart from 2000 - 5000 miles when new. So one would change the oil very frequently

My old Avalanche starting needing a quart every 3500 miles ( this was at 250,000 miles ).

Our dipsticks do not seem the best oil level monitoring device ....

 

Understatement of the decade. My last oil change, the dipstick said level was good, but only 3.5 quarts drained out

 

this is why I wouldn’t go 10k. I have a cravenspeed dip stick and I’m pulling almost what I put in, all of these motors are so different between the generations. My oil loss, not burn, is 1/4 qt over the 3-3500, on the R53. Now the R55s and it’s n14 would burn a qt or 2 over 5k, depending on driving habits.

 

The three B48's I've had have all been non-oil-losers. The one with the most miles only had 40,000, though. But, on all three, I'd put 5.5 quarts in, and get almost exactly 5.5 out at the change 5000 miles later. Oil level always read "full". But, I don't know what it would look like if I was a quart low. I THINK I might only put 4.5 quarts in, run it to get it hot, then do the oil level check just to see what 1 quart low looks like. Then again...maybe not. B-)

 

As long as I add a quart at 2500 miles, I don't have to worry about too low oil level.

 

'The short answer from me:
Approx every 3,500 mi.

The long answer:
04 R53 build date 10.'03.
I've had the car since new with 3mi on the OD. Through the warranty period of four years, my wife put 35k mi on the car (mostly city) and had the dealer change the oil every 10k.
In '08 I paid off the note and started doing my own oil changes every 5k mi.
In 2012 I began to notice how black the oil had become just around 3,5k mi.
I've been changing my oil and filter @ every 3.5k - 4k mi since then.
I change my oil 3-4 times a year. along with other fluid maintenance. OD currently reading @ 97k mi (+).
Overkill perhaps.
I just like clean oil as much as I insist on a clean engine/bay = (If the engine/bay is filthy on the outside; It kinda tells me how the engine has been maintained on the inside).

 

Many years ago there was a 2 part article in a motorcycle magazine, I believe it was Motorcyclist called Oils well that ends well. They tested all the oils for motorcycles both synthetic and dinosaur; the differences even synthetic to synthetic were not subtle. MOTOREX of Switzerland was the winner in all categories. Motorcycle oils get beat up because they go through the transmission too. Ironically the automotive Mobil outperformed the Mobil made for motorcycles. It was very brave of the magazine because unlike Consumer Reports they rely on advertisers. Also FWIW I would like to trust if it says 10-30 on the label it is 10-30; CU did a test and few were as claimed; the 10-30 was 10-20 right out of the can and 1,000 miles later it was metal against metal because the viscosity broke down. In the past I was allowed to provide my own oil (Mobil 1) to the dealership & pay for filter & labor. With the MINI it must be their oil. In the past BMW oil was made by SHELL now by CASTROL owned by BP; thank you for letting me know you changed at 600 miles AND 1200. I will search for links to the oil test articles.

 

https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rid...s-well-part-1/

https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rid...s-well-part-2/

 

BTDT - just not on the mini, as for the two I am playing with, one has a rebuilt engine and the other is in the works !

 

In theory, it either goes out the exhaust ( ie burn ) or on the floor ( leak ). However, there always seems to be another place it can hide !

 

I talked to my colleague about the dipstick ( he buys/refurbish/sells minis at a rate of 1 - 2/week. Anywhere from a quick clean, to a complete rebuild. He sources my engine builds/head work etc ). He told me he checks the dipsticks on every car sells. Many he tosses and replaces. If he keeps them - he has even calibrated to how much higher then the mark you should fill the oil. One of his personal cars is a WC 50 and it has a Cravenspeed dipstick ( FWIW - he says it is 0.380 inches to big - so he shortened it. He thinks it is a great upgrade - and readable ! I am sure a lot of trial and error and used oil has gone into his dipstick analyses ). Either way - Cravenspeed just got an order for 3 dipsticks from me ( 2 for me and 1 for a friend ).

 

Would a general consensus suggest that the OEM/factory dipstick is inaccurate?
I have the braided metal/wire one from Way Motor Works. It measured identical to the original factory in my R53.
Very much improved (metal) over OEM.

 

It seems they are not the most robust. That being said - my knowledge is only around 2cd gen

 

Yeah, I would go with inconsistent. In my opinion, it’s not the dipstick, but the design of how it goes down into the oil pan. They have it snake down through the timing chain guide, which drains and holds oil coming down from the valve area. Because if the drain through the dipstick guide, this is why the dipstick has the two bulges at the top and bottom, to help wipe the draining oil away from the center measuring zone. If the dipstick doesn’t get all the oil out of the way, the reading won’t be accurate.

 

Haven't kept current on this but years ago big rig service centers -- quite often located at or near "truck stops" -- had the ability to do an oil analysis on site. Had one done and it cost around $20. 'course, this was back in early 2002....

I'm not a fan of regular oil analysis. The procedure the oil change facility recommended was to remove the oil filter -- for both of my cars the oil filter was a canister type with a removable filter insert -- and pour out some oil. If the analysis came back with results that indicated the oil was ok to replace the filter insert -- and the necessary o-rings -- then top up the oil level and drive on.

But there were problems. I would have to have a new filter and o-rings handy every time I got the oil analyzed. Another problem was while one car engine had the oil canister vertical so it could be unscrewed with the open end up the other car engine had the canister at an angle. Unscrewing the canister resulted in oil pouring out of the filter housing and making a big mess. Yet another car had the canister inverted. The open end was down. An even bigger mess ensued when this was removed.

To obtain an oil sample the tech inserted a small diameter nylon hose down the dipstick tube and siphoned out some oil.

While the two cars I had at the time (2002 Boxster and 2002 VW Golf TDi) had dipsticks not all cars since have had dipsticks. My 2018 JCW, 2022 BMW 230i, 2022 MINI S, 2023 JCW and 2023 BMW M2 did not/do not have dipsticks. So obtaining an oil sample is a pain.

Rather than do an oil analysis time after time after the 1st (and only) one at ~4K miles the numbers indicated the oil would be done at around 5K miles. Not done so bad as to risk damage to the engine but done enough to warrant changing the oil. Remember in the engine/engine oil partnership the oil is the sacrificial item. One changes oil *before* it reaches the point it can no longer provide adequate lubrication.

I am aghast that some recommend oil analysis and to only change the oil when wearing/bearing metal PPM numbers indicate the presence of these in the oil.

At any rate 5K mile oil/filter services have proved to be just fine given my vehicle usage. Might mention 5K miles may not seem like a lot of miles but even though I'm quite aware of engine idle time and seek to keep it low it is amazing how much idle time a passenger vehicle engine accumulates. Courtesy of having used OBD2 trip/data loggers in my cars I found short trips can have half the engine run time at idle. Even longer trips -- like the 30 miles I used to drive from home to office and with ~30 minutes of engine run time can have upwards of 5 or more minutes of idle time.

 

Pretty sure no one was recommending an oil change when wear metals appear in the oil. The oil analysis will tell you when the oil has degraded enough to not be providing suitable lubrication, not just presence of wear metals.

I'm suggesting grabbing an oil sample when performing your regular oil change, then having it analyzed to tell you how well the oil is lasting. If it can still protect your engine at 5000 miles and you want to go longer, then get it tested again at 7500 miles. Lather, rinse, repeat until you find the mileage that works best for you. I am also suggesting that 5000 mile oil changes and 10,000 mile filter changes are good enough for the majority of situations, and easy enough to remember just from looking at your odometer.