MINI USA, Hope You're Listening. Time to Remember Your Past...
Very well written siriuszero 
After re-reading the OP's two walls of text, and filtering through his several contradictions, I'm still not positive what the actual complaint is. MINI still offers manuals, 2-doors, 3 engine options, bespoke ordering, and virtually endless customization right off the production line. The only thing that's changed is they've added diversity and raised overall sales numbers. Is the diversity the complaint?
I went and looked up the base MSRP of a 2002 Cooper S. It was $19,850. I then punched that number into our governments inflation calculator. Guess how much that is in 2015 dollars? $26,152.24. The actual base MSRP of a 2016 Cooper S is $24,100, markedly less than the corrected inflation value. That's right, MINI charges over 2-grand less than they should, making the F56 a way better value than the R53. So much for the "cost too much" argument.
After re-reading the OP's two walls of text, and filtering through his several contradictions, I'm still not positive what the actual complaint is. MINI still offers manuals, 2-doors, 3 engine options, bespoke ordering, and virtually endless customization right off the production line. The only thing that's changed is they've added diversity and raised overall sales numbers. Is the diversity the complaint?
I went and looked up the base MSRP of a 2002 Cooper S. It was $19,850. I then punched that number into our governments inflation calculator. Guess how much that is in 2015 dollars? $26,152.24. The actual base MSRP of a 2016 Cooper S is $24,100, markedly less than the corrected inflation value. That's right, MINI charges over 2-grand less than they should, making the F56 a way better value than the R53. So much for the "cost too much" argument.
Last edited by Ryephile; Feb 9, 2016 at 06:08 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,916
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From: California
I don't know about "should." As volumes go up you can charge a bit less to still cover development costs in a timely fashion and increase your total revenue/profit through additional sales. It is, however, nice to see car prices rising slower than inflation. Historically, it has been very much the other way around. 1971 BMW 1600 = $3,600. In 2015 dollars that is $21,068. 2016 228i coupe = $33,845
It seems to me that "cost too much" can only be argued by price comparisons to similar products. Sadly, one has to live on the other side of the pond to have competitive alternatives to the MINI. Unless one doesn't value handling.
It seems to me that "cost too much" can only be argued by price comparisons to similar products. Sadly, one has to live on the other side of the pond to have competitive alternatives to the MINI. Unless one doesn't value handling.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Under your car
^Interesting^
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2014
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A good write up on "the purchasing power of the dollar over time" can be found at:
https://www.measuringworth.com/ppowerus/
Use the form and enter 1971, $3600, 2014. Upon submit you will see the various results with a description. (Numbers for 2015 have not been published yet, hence 2014 is used).
...the relative value of $3,600.00 from 1971 ranges from $16,300.00 to $53,500.00.
It's also important to consider the vastly increased safety and technology added over the years. The added content, federally mandated and otherwise, add significant cost to the car.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,916
Likes: 7
From: California
Yes, and new technology, increased volume (from increased population), etc. reduced the cost of development and manufacture to offset that somewhat. eg. - computers and robotics. Also, a base 1971 BMW 1600 had every option included at no charge. 228i sdrive Coupes on my dealer's lot average $42,600.
dongood, similar BMW's are no longer sold in the US, as I alluded to in the second paragraph. As long as CPI is the measurement of choice, I shall use it for general comparisons of the value of a dollar.
dongood, similar BMW's are no longer sold in the US, as I alluded to in the second paragraph. As long as CPI is the measurement of choice, I shall use it for general comparisons of the value of a dollar.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,319
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From: Tsunami Zone
What options ... they didn't even come with a radio 
Purchase order for BMW 2002 tii on September 12, 1972
Base price = 4,360
Metallic Paint = 150
Sliding Sunroof = 160
Reclining Seats = 45
Skai Upholstery = 45
Dealer Prep = 110
Inland Freight = 45
Purchase order for BMW 2002 tii on September 12, 1972
Base price = 4,360
Metallic Paint = 150
Sliding Sunroof = 160
Reclining Seats = 45
Skai Upholstery = 45
Dealer Prep = 110
Inland Freight = 45
Actually no. It is only offered in the automatic. We are being force fed automatics same as BMW owners are now in an effort to mainstream the car due to new design. They want to get away from the former MINI-esque and go with "up scale."
The Carbon Edition only exists in the first place because it is a consolation prize to people who wanted a JCW F55. MINI (rightfully so) decided it didn't really make financial sense to create a JCW F55 and the Carbon Edition F55 was born; a standard F55 Cooper S with a selected group of accessories (which you can affix to ANY Cooper S F55) installed at the port and exclusive graphics. Before you complain why people would want a 4-door MINI and how it's diluting the brand. IT IS GROWING IT. I am one of several thousand people who loved MINIs because of the way they drive, their relative size, fuel economy, and interesting interiors, but because of my needs, I needed something bigger than the 2-door. Did MINI stop making the 2-door? No! They supplemented it. At my local dealer, in fact, the 4-doors are selling 60:40 over the 2-door Hardtops. PEOPLE WANT THESE and as long as they continue to offer the 2-door Hardtop configuration that's existed since the beginning, I don't know why people complain that MINI has more than one model now...
Could care less about the other models, bring'em on. It's the 2 dr hardtop which this is about.
First of all, we are not comparing like for like here. BMWs and MINIs are similar in ways, now more than ever, but they are still very different.
Regarding your price comparison, you're comparing one specific car and applying it to a whole brand. We all know the starting price of the MINIs is in face much lower - the 2-door Hardtop starts at $20,700 for a Cooper and $24,100 for a Cooper S. The cheapest BMW you can buy new is the 228i at ~$32k. From a price perspective, they are not even on the same level. Once you add equipment and options that people demand (infotainment, seating options, comfort, performance) the price on both will inflate so let's compare a loaded MINI with a loaded BMW. You were looking at the Carbon Edition, so lets look at that. Navigation, Dynamic Dampers, Sport Auto, LED headlights, body kit, rear PDC, comfort access, leather, carbon accessories, etc...that's a lot of car for $41. If we compare a BMW 4-door, in this case, the 320i as the cheapest option, we come close with similar equipment and accessories at ~$43k, but that's without the tuning kit and bi-modal exhaust and in a bigger car. Both engines put out ~180hp, but the JCW tuning kit on the Carbon Edition bumps the MINI to ~196hp. On paper, the MINI is the better deal. IMO, outside of the M-series, the MINIs are just more fun to drive as well. I'm sure anyone reading this probably agrees
Regarding your price comparison, you're comparing one specific car and applying it to a whole brand. We all know the starting price of the MINIs is in face much lower - the 2-door Hardtop starts at $20,700 for a Cooper and $24,100 for a Cooper S. The cheapest BMW you can buy new is the 228i at ~$32k. From a price perspective, they are not even on the same level. Once you add equipment and options that people demand (infotainment, seating options, comfort, performance) the price on both will inflate so let's compare a loaded MINI with a loaded BMW. You were looking at the Carbon Edition, so lets look at that. Navigation, Dynamic Dampers, Sport Auto, LED headlights, body kit, rear PDC, comfort access, leather, carbon accessories, etc...that's a lot of car for $41. If we compare a BMW 4-door, in this case, the 320i as the cheapest option, we come close with similar equipment and accessories at ~$43k, but that's without the tuning kit and bi-modal exhaust and in a bigger car. Both engines put out ~180hp, but the JCW tuning kit on the Carbon Edition bumps the MINI to ~196hp. On paper, the MINI is the better deal. IMO, outside of the M-series, the MINIs are just more fun to drive as well. I'm sure anyone reading this probably agrees
GL finding a MINI at the base price, and again please re-read what I wrote. You are mixing apples and oranges by not using my specific example....
Foundation is important, but so is building on it. The roads haven't changed, but people have. Customers and their demands change all the time. Not just in the auto industry, but in any business. You are comparing the MINIs of today with the MINIs from a decade ago, but there are a whole new group of people that are in the market now that may not have even had their license a decade ago, they may not have had a family to think about a decade ago. People change. What they want, changes. To not pay any attention to this ever-changing group of customers is business suicide.
Good, then go by a Countryman ! what's your point ? My point was, ( if you bothered not to skim read ) was in making the Carbon Edition a; 4dr as well as only offering it as an automatic as being a shot in the foot for any dealer who has one and does nothing for anyone who would be interested in those options but in a 2dr hardtop suit....
How many MINIs were sold in the US in 2003 when MINI had the Cooper and Cooper S hardtops for sale? According to your source, about 36k. How many in 2015? Over 58k! Why? Because MINI diversified what they offered to appeal to more buyers and kept up with what the market wants. Yes, they do it to make money, but that's how business works. What's a crime is if they just sit on their money and watch it pile up, changing nothing, doing nothing to evolve until the market gets bored and moves on. Instead, they use that money to grow the brand to more people, develop new technology for their cars, not just screens and bluetooth, but fuel saving technologies and performance and efficiency advances.
Sitting ? Boring. ? Well lets see what MINI has done lately to bring in new blood. Since 2010 they added, new engine ( N18), a coupe', roadster, Countryman and Paceman models....So I think they've done enough to cover their bases to establish a new clientele. But now messing with brand as a whole to mainstream the car is IMO a mistake. Making it more like BMW is a mistake. Is that what everybody really wants, for this car to have the same recognition and persona as a Corrolla ? Then have at it...GLWT.
I don't think it's true that everyone wants automatics. In fact, MINI knows this and is one of a shrinking number of auto manufacturers that still offer manual transmissions on it's entire lineup. Standard. You mention the JCW; I think it's safe to assume most people who get the JCW are performance minded prefer the control of a manual, but it doesn't matter, because MINI offers the automatic too and has since 2013. People buy them and more power to them if that's what they want. The delay with the JCW manual wasn't deliberate - the manual transmission in the F56 JCW was not ready by the time it was supposed to come out. Rather than delay the whole car until it was ready, they released the automatic and released the manual when it was ready, only a couple months later
Again, you're using ONE specific model and using that to create your own conclusions without looking at the big picture. MINI sold more cars in 2015 than they did the previous year (although, admittedly, that's not saying too much with all the stop sales and holds they had in 2014) and this year should be even better as they are updating the Convertible and Countryman (which were both becoming long in the tooth)..
Again, you're using ONE specific model and using that to create your own conclusions without looking at the big picture. MINI sold more cars in 2015 than they did the previous year (although, admittedly, that's not saying too much with all the stop sales and holds they had in 2014) and this year should be even better as they are updating the Convertible and Countryman (which were both becoming long in the tooth)..
The sold about 25-30 more cars in 2015 than previous year I think so hardly the time to break out the champagne.....
I hope I was constructive! I disagree with some of your views, but I see where you're coming from. 
I disagree with some of your views, but I see where you're coming from.
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 189
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Douchebag. If your gonna send me nasty P.M.s Im gonna post em for all to see.
And if your gonna whine and complain about spelling then stop WASTING my time with it if your gonna misspell words while doing it.
And just to make ANOTHER correction, I was the one wasting time reading a pointless and meaningless diatribe.
Today, 07:25 PM
Eurothrasher 
5th Gear
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 741
Typical Truck Driver mentality.
Must be a few truck tires which need thumping to check tire pressure...stop waiting my time reading your pointless and meaningless diatribe and misspelled words. ;p
Eurothrasher 5th Gear
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 741
Typical Truck Driver mentality.
Must be a few truck tires which need thumping to check tire pressure...stop waiting my time reading your pointless and meaningless diatribe and misspelled words. ;p
And just to make ANOTHER correction, I was the one wasting time reading a pointless and meaningless diatribe.
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 870
Likes: 14
From: Austin, TX
Actually no. It is only offered in the automatic. We are being force fed automatics same as BMW owners are now in an effort to mainstream the car due to new design. They want to get away from the former MINI-esque and go with "up scale."
Yes it was only offered in an automatic, with every dealer getting just one, similar to the Laurel edition. At least in the major markets here in Texas, every one has been sold too. Shocking!
Could care less about the other models, bring'em on. It's the 2 dr hardtop which this is about.
If it's the 2-door hardtop that this is about, why are we talking about the 4-door F55 Carbon Edition?
GL finding a MINI at the base price, and again please re-read what I wrote. You are mixing apples and oranges by not using my specific example....
Good, then go by a Countryman ! what's your point ? My point was, ( if you bothered not to skim read ) was in making the Carbon Edition a; 4dr as well as only offering it as an automatic as being a shot in the foot for any dealer who has one and does nothing for anyone who would be interested in those options but in a 2dr hardtop suit....
Perhaps you should be less condescending for starters. It hasn't been a shot in the foot of dealers as only one was sent to dealers. And people interested in those options but in a 2dr, that's why the 2dr JCW exists. Oh, and quit bashing automatics. The auto in the JCW and the Carbon edition is the sport auto, with paddle shifters and revised transmission mapping. And it's better performing than its manual equivalent, as is the case in almost every single performance car being built today. Reason: racecar.
Sitting ? Boring. ? Well lets see what MINI has done lately to bring in new blood. Since 2010 they added, new engine ( N18), a coupe', roadster, Countryman and Paceman models....So I think they've done enough to cover their bases to establish a new clientele. But now messing with brand as a whole to mainstream the car is IMO a mistake. Making it more like BMW is a mistake. Is that what everybody really wants, for this car to have the same recognition and persona as a Corrolla ? Then have at it...GLWT.
Since when has a BMW and a Corolla had the same persona? And BMW is responsible for building a car that has been on Car and Driver's 10Best list for a record 14 or 15 years. Some of that influence isn't a bad thing. What MINI is doing is not diluting the brand at all. It's modernizing it, while still being unique.
The sold about 25-30 more cars in 2015 than previous year I think so hardly the time to break out the champagne.....
Car sales were down as a whole because it was a slow year economically. It happens.
Yes it was only offered in an automatic, with every dealer getting just one, similar to the Laurel edition. At least in the major markets here in Texas, every one has been sold too. Shocking!
Could care less about the other models, bring'em on. It's the 2 dr hardtop which this is about.
If it's the 2-door hardtop that this is about, why are we talking about the 4-door F55 Carbon Edition?
GL finding a MINI at the base price, and again please re-read what I wrote. You are mixing apples and oranges by not using my specific example....
Good, then go by a Countryman ! what's your point ? My point was, ( if you bothered not to skim read ) was in making the Carbon Edition a; 4dr as well as only offering it as an automatic as being a shot in the foot for any dealer who has one and does nothing for anyone who would be interested in those options but in a 2dr hardtop suit....
Perhaps you should be less condescending for starters. It hasn't been a shot in the foot of dealers as only one was sent to dealers. And people interested in those options but in a 2dr, that's why the 2dr JCW exists. Oh, and quit bashing automatics. The auto in the JCW and the Carbon edition is the sport auto, with paddle shifters and revised transmission mapping. And it's better performing than its manual equivalent, as is the case in almost every single performance car being built today. Reason: racecar.
Sitting ? Boring. ? Well lets see what MINI has done lately to bring in new blood. Since 2010 they added, new engine ( N18), a coupe', roadster, Countryman and Paceman models....So I think they've done enough to cover their bases to establish a new clientele. But now messing with brand as a whole to mainstream the car is IMO a mistake. Making it more like BMW is a mistake. Is that what everybody really wants, for this car to have the same recognition and persona as a Corrolla ? Then have at it...GLWT.
Since when has a BMW and a Corolla had the same persona? And BMW is responsible for building a car that has been on Car and Driver's 10Best list for a record 14 or 15 years. Some of that influence isn't a bad thing. What MINI is doing is not diluting the brand at all. It's modernizing it, while still being unique.
The sold about 25-30 more cars in 2015 than previous year I think so hardly the time to break out the champagne.....
Car sales were down as a whole because it was a slow year economically. It happens.
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 831
Likes: 7
From: Tucson, Arizona
For all the automatic 'bashers' out there I just got my latest Car and Driver and there was an interesting article about the new Mazda Miata and how Miata anticipates over 50% of their sales this year will be automatics! It's hard to stop progress.
Actually no. It is only offered in the automatic. We are being force fed automatics same as BMW owners are now in an effort to mainstream the car due to new design. ....
... But now messing with brand as a whole to mainstream the car is IMO a mistake. Making it more like BMW is a mistake. Is that what everybody really wants, for this car to have the same recognition and persona as a Corrolla ? Then have at it...GLWT. ...
... But now messing with brand as a whole to mainstream the car is IMO a mistake. Making it more like BMW is a mistake. Is that what everybody really wants, for this car to have the same recognition and persona as a Corrolla ? Then have at it...GLWT. ...
Also, I can't tell if you were trying to make a metaphorical quip or not, but BMW does not make the Corolla, Toyota does.
End of the day, you getting upset that MINI is offering a car you're not even interested in seems absurd.
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 963
Likes: 5
From: Formerly "Glacial" ME, now FL, USA
Automatics have been in the majority here in the US for a long time. Most drivers chose automatics because they live in large congested cities, where a manual can really get tiring day in and day out in long slow stop and go commutes. Plus, not every driver is focused on car dynamics and for most, a car is merely a necessary appliance to get from point A to point B. Better yet, a lot of people prefer a car that completely isolates and cocoons the driver from the experience of driving! That's an established fact.
Then there have always been cars produced that offer no manual option what so ever. Several Japanese imports allow a manual option only on their basement level cars, the ones you can't option with any of the good packages. If you want the leather seats, the good sound system and a sunroof with the nice 17 inch wheels? Sorry, those options are only available in EX++ model and there's no manual option box available to check off on that order form. It's been this way for a very long time.
Let's face it... some automatics can now shift faster and more precisely than the most experienced race car drivers. Dual clutch, automatic blip and that kind of technology has come a long way. And you can't beat the efficiency of some of the better CVTs with your manual skills anymore. I'm thinking specifically of the Prius CVT that uses no belts, is all gear driven and continually multitasks transparently while it's splitting between driver power demands from two separate power sources and regenerating electricity for storage in a battery while still selecting the most efficient power/torque levels at that moment. That transmission is a bloody brilliant work of schizophrenic engineering art.
But, none of the automatics are going to be as much fun to interact with as a good old manual. I've had a long string of manual transmission cars. My garage has never been without one. The Getrag in our Mini is one of the best I've experienced.
On the other hand, the majority of people I know don't chose to drive manuals. Mini owners are generally driving enthusiasts that enjoy shifting for themselves, but that part of the population is fairly small. Young driver's today don't even have to learn to drive a manual in order to get a license. When I was first getting my license, I had to learn to drive a manual in driver's education. That was a part of the class, and you had to become proficient to pass the class.
The last 5 new hires where I worked (2 female and 3 male) didn't know how to and didn't want to learn to drive a manual. Couldn't be bothered with it. This is happening more and more.
I'm sure that an automatic Mini is still a fun driver. At some point I'll go try one at the dealership just to see for myself. In order for Mini to continue to exist... make a profit to stay in business... it's going to have to grow it's customer base and build cars that people will buy. If they don't keep up with what the public wants, they could end up like a lot of other car brands that couldn't quite figure out their customer base and then eventually faded away. I'm thinking most recently of the Scion brand.
Mini's are changing just like the customer base is changing. Nothing ever stays the same. Would be great if we could still go out and buy a new original BMC Mini or a new first gen BMW Mini, but that's not the way things generally work. Consumers have so many different cars to chose from. Small SUVs (CUVs?) are all the craze right now, and Mini has part of that covered somewhat, too.
Most families have more than one car. Some families have two Minis! I'm working on that one. But we have more than one car already. The Mini Roadster is my fun car, but my wife and I can't use it to cart our two kayaks to the lake or ocean or our bikes to group ride meeting points. So we use our ancient 1998 Frontier pickup (a manual 4 banger of course) for that purpose.
If you enjoy driving a small car, be very glad that BMW bought the brand and decided to produce this exceptional niche car for us. Even after all the changes, I'm hoping the Mini will continue to be successfully produced.
Then there have always been cars produced that offer no manual option what so ever. Several Japanese imports allow a manual option only on their basement level cars, the ones you can't option with any of the good packages. If you want the leather seats, the good sound system and a sunroof with the nice 17 inch wheels? Sorry, those options are only available in EX++ model and there's no manual option box available to check off on that order form. It's been this way for a very long time.
Let's face it... some automatics can now shift faster and more precisely than the most experienced race car drivers. Dual clutch, automatic blip and that kind of technology has come a long way. And you can't beat the efficiency of some of the better CVTs with your manual skills anymore. I'm thinking specifically of the Prius CVT that uses no belts, is all gear driven and continually multitasks transparently while it's splitting between driver power demands from two separate power sources and regenerating electricity for storage in a battery while still selecting the most efficient power/torque levels at that moment. That transmission is a bloody brilliant work of schizophrenic engineering art.
But, none of the automatics are going to be as much fun to interact with as a good old manual. I've had a long string of manual transmission cars. My garage has never been without one. The Getrag in our Mini is one of the best I've experienced.
On the other hand, the majority of people I know don't chose to drive manuals. Mini owners are generally driving enthusiasts that enjoy shifting for themselves, but that part of the population is fairly small. Young driver's today don't even have to learn to drive a manual in order to get a license. When I was first getting my license, I had to learn to drive a manual in driver's education. That was a part of the class, and you had to become proficient to pass the class.
The last 5 new hires where I worked (2 female and 3 male) didn't know how to and didn't want to learn to drive a manual. Couldn't be bothered with it. This is happening more and more.
I'm sure that an automatic Mini is still a fun driver. At some point I'll go try one at the dealership just to see for myself. In order for Mini to continue to exist... make a profit to stay in business... it's going to have to grow it's customer base and build cars that people will buy. If they don't keep up with what the public wants, they could end up like a lot of other car brands that couldn't quite figure out their customer base and then eventually faded away. I'm thinking most recently of the Scion brand.
Mini's are changing just like the customer base is changing. Nothing ever stays the same. Would be great if we could still go out and buy a new original BMC Mini or a new first gen BMW Mini, but that's not the way things generally work. Consumers have so many different cars to chose from. Small SUVs (CUVs?) are all the craze right now, and Mini has part of that covered somewhat, too.
Most families have more than one car. Some families have two Minis! I'm working on that one
. But we have more than one car already. The Mini Roadster is my fun car, but my wife and I can't use it to cart our two kayaks to the lake or ocean or our bikes to group ride meeting points. So we use our ancient 1998 Frontier pickup (a manual 4 banger of course) for that purpose. If you enjoy driving a small car, be very glad that BMW bought the brand and decided to produce this exceptional niche car for us. Even after all the changes, I'm hoping the Mini will continue to be successfully produced.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 42
From: Bothell, WA
Oh ok...
I'm not sure what points you're trying to make here or if you're even interested in getting somewhere with this, so here it goes:
This just isn't true. The Carbon Edition had TWO configurable options: all-season tires, and the sport automatic.
No one is force-feeding anyone anything. Manuals are offered across the entire MINI lineup. If dealers choose to order their cars with automatics, it is because the majority of US consumers (that may not think like you or like the same things you do) want them. I don't think your argument has any merit.
If you want a specific car with a manual and it's not on the lot, the great thing about MINI is you can build one to order.
Ok...the Carbon Edition is a 4-door model. There technically is no 2-door Carbon Edition, but you could just as easily take any 2-door Cooper S and match it with the same accessories either at the port or after purchase at the dealer. OR buy the proper JCW. All of those have manuals available.
Your entire rant seems to focus on MINI in general, which is why I brought up the rest of their lineup, which at this point, makes up the majority of total units sold in the US.
What your dealer chooses to stock is, again, on them. Most tend to order what the majority of people are looking for. That's just good business. While most don't order a base price MINI (because they do not sell and let's face it, have little profit margin), you can usually find one with just one or two packages that still result in a MINI priced in the mid $20s. You always have the option to order a barebones one if that's what you're after, so again, your argument is moot.
I'm confused. Were we not talking about a Carbon Edition with sport auto? So...what's your point? No one will buy it because of the price? Please read what *I* wrote. Your argument was, if someone wanted to spend $41k on a car, they would buy a BMW - but the point I was trying to make is that with the same equipment, that similar BMW would be far more expensive, slower, and would not be nearly as much fun to drive. People do want to buy $40k MINIs - I am one of them. I like the gadgets. They make me feel like James Bond. Schorry for ruining the brand.
Besides, there are other, cheaper MINIs available. They just won't have the same stuff as the Carbon Edition.
Was your example the 2-door exclusively? Cool. As I've said, there are so many ways you can order one, the price range is wide depending on what you want. Options! Comparatively speaking, these are the same price as what was offered a decade ago, adjusting for inflation...you know...because it's been 10 years.
So back on the Carbon Edition. Ok. This whole thing is because you're upset this "special edition" didn't come in a 2-door manual? It kinda did...aside from the graphics, there is nothing preventing anyone from getting a black F56 with the same packages (or more, or less, depending on what you want) and accessories to make it EXACTLY the same as a Carbon Edition. They don't even number the damn things.
(I did buy a Countryman before I got my F55, BTW. It was awesome...and hey! It got me into MINIs! Fancy that!)
What, specifically, do you have a problem with? I am genuinely curious.
This is what a lot of people don't realize....branding NEEDS to change from time to time, especially car brands. Look at how Audis and Mercedes have changed in the last 5 years. People and customers change throughout the years. MINI, with their "smart premium" rebranding, is targeting Gen Y/millennials because now that group is in their 30s, they're professionals making money, but aren't as interested in the old luxuty brands like Mercedes and BMW - they want something quirky and fun. Boom. MINI. It doesn't mean MINI and BMW are going to be the same. Both still appeal to two very different groups. Think Rolls Royce. Another BMW Group owned company, but they appeal to a VERY different group of people (people with more money than sense, if you ask me - you get those cars to have someone else drive you...what fun is that?!)
They are more like BMW than ever before because the advantage of being owned by them is that they get to share the same parts and technology as their much more expensive siblings. The interior and exterior styling is still very unique to MINI, but the tech stuff people want can now come from other models. The rear cam? Same high-quality one found on the new G 7-series. It's a two-way street too. The engines for example; a variant of the 3-cyl found in the Cooper is being used in the i8 supercar, the 4-cyl Cooper S engine is found on a couple 2-series models.
A common platform also keeps R&D and part costs down, and makes them easier to engineer new innovations (technology and performance) that can apply not just to BMW now, but MINI as well. BMW+MINI=good thing! Not listening to the needs of your existing and potential customers is the real mistake.
Believe me, they are still plenty different though. MINI will never be "mainstream". If you think that, you're not paying attention. There is nothing wrong, however, with appealing to as many people as you can. Again, good business. Every MINI model is still smaller than their competition, is more fun to drive, and much more interesting. That hasn't changed since the R50 and it won't.
.... You don't honestly think ANYONE compares a Corolla to a BMW, do you?
This far down the reply, I don't think you really care what I have to say (I hope you do and want to have a discussion), but I will add, in defense, that the Coupe, Roadster, Paceman, and Convertible weren't around for half the year, the Countryman is sorely due for a refresh, and the R55 Clubman was on sale in 2014, but not in 2015. So, yes, it was only 25-30 cars more, but that was with only three models in production for half the year.
I'm not sure what points you're trying to make here or if you're even interested in getting somewhere with this, so here it goes:
No one is force-feeding anyone anything. Manuals are offered across the entire MINI lineup. If dealers choose to order their cars with automatics, it is because the majority of US consumers (that may not think like you or like the same things you do) want them. I don't think your argument has any merit.
If you want a specific car with a manual and it's not on the lot, the great thing about MINI is you can build one to order.
Your entire rant seems to focus on MINI in general, which is why I brought up the rest of their lineup, which at this point, makes up the majority of total units sold in the US.
Besides, there are other, cheaper MINIs available. They just won't have the same stuff as the Carbon Edition.
Was your example the 2-door exclusively? Cool. As I've said, there are so many ways you can order one, the price range is wide depending on what you want. Options! Comparatively speaking, these are the same price as what was offered a decade ago, adjusting for inflation...you know...because it's been 10 years.
Good, then go by a Countryman ! what's your point ? My point was, ( if you bothered not to skim read ) was in making the Carbon Edition a; 4dr as well as only offering it as an automatic as being a shot in the foot for any dealer who has one and does nothing for anyone who would be interested in those options but in a 2dr hardtop suit....
(I did buy a Countryman before I got my F55, BTW. It was awesome...and hey! It got me into MINIs! Fancy that!)
Sitting ? Boring. ? Well lets see what MINI has done lately to bring in new blood. Since 2010 they added, new engine ( N18), a coupe', roadster, Countryman and Paceman models....So I think they've done enough to cover their bases to establish a new clientele. But now messing with brand as a whole to mainstream the car is IMO a mistake. Making it more like BMW is a mistake.
This is what a lot of people don't realize....branding NEEDS to change from time to time, especially car brands. Look at how Audis and Mercedes have changed in the last 5 years. People and customers change throughout the years. MINI, with their "smart premium" rebranding, is targeting Gen Y/millennials because now that group is in their 30s, they're professionals making money, but aren't as interested in the old luxuty brands like Mercedes and BMW - they want something quirky and fun. Boom. MINI. It doesn't mean MINI and BMW are going to be the same. Both still appeal to two very different groups. Think Rolls Royce. Another BMW Group owned company, but they appeal to a VERY different group of people (people with more money than sense, if you ask me - you get those cars to have someone else drive you...what fun is that?!)
They are more like BMW than ever before because the advantage of being owned by them is that they get to share the same parts and technology as their much more expensive siblings. The interior and exterior styling is still very unique to MINI, but the tech stuff people want can now come from other models. The rear cam? Same high-quality one found on the new G 7-series. It's a two-way street too. The engines for example; a variant of the 3-cyl found in the Cooper is being used in the i8 supercar, the 4-cyl Cooper S engine is found on a couple 2-series models.
A common platform also keeps R&D and part costs down, and makes them easier to engineer new innovations (technology and performance) that can apply not just to BMW now, but MINI as well. BMW+MINI=good thing! Not listening to the needs of your existing and potential customers is the real mistake.
Believe me, they are still plenty different though. MINI will never be "mainstream". If you think that, you're not paying attention. There is nothing wrong, however, with appealing to as many people as you can. Again, good business. Every MINI model is still smaller than their competition, is more fun to drive, and much more interesting. That hasn't changed since the R50 and it won't.
This far down the reply, I don't think you really care what I have to say (I hope you do and want to have a discussion), but I will add, in defense, that the Coupe, Roadster, Paceman, and Convertible weren't around for half the year, the Countryman is sorely due for a refresh, and the R55 Clubman was on sale in 2014, but not in 2015. So, yes, it was only 25-30 cars more, but that was with only three models in production for half the year.
I agree. I've had better discussions with my Grand Eclectus parrot. You seem to keep talking in circles so really no point in continuing this with you... Have a nice day!
Have a nice day!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,599
Likes: 42
From: Bothell, WA
*SQUAAAAAAK!*