Folks you can be Mini fans..

But you can also admit the N14 design was total crap.

To the OP I feel for you. But as most have said, you'll get farther with trying to be nice than being angry. Once you get mad, companies know they lost you as a customer... and the willingness to stand behind a product walks away... because no matter what they do - even in cases when they buy back a car - you'll never speak well of them again..

The N14 haunts Mini. They know this. Everyone is salty about it.

Best of luck trying to get them to cover it. I mean that.

 

Thanks for the input.

I did try using reason and did have a polite discourse with Mini, but it gets very frustrating when they refuse to acknowledge their fault in the matter.

They have dug in, and are not going to admit their timing chain is defective.

In the end it may have to go to small claims court.

The N14 was a very bad motor. In reality Mini should go to someone like Toyota for a motor, not Peugeot. And when they have a better engine, they should simply put it in all of the defective models.

 

It is sad, because if they had fessed up to this/fixed it.. then people would feel much better...

I recently had a 2 year old faucet have a major failure - the hose that pulls out fell apart and started to spray water all over - and down the back of the sink.

I contacted them, and without proof of ownership - they sent out a replacement hose in 4 days... with directions for free...

That's how you save your company. All you have is a name..

 

I doubt you had a reasonable discourse with them, I think you tried to shove your opinion down their throats and didn't like it when they blew you off.


You sound like a lawyer trying to gather support for a suit, or a TV "investigative reporter" trying to drum up a story.


Accusations of fraud and misrepresentation are what lead me to this conclusion, that and saying how you're campaigning for all MINI owner's benefit - please do not include me in those you claim you're trying to help.


Even tho I own a MINI Cooper S that's right in the heart of the service campaign and my timing chain and tensioner were both replaced, Mini treated me with courtesy and fixed my car promptly. I do not feel they have wronged me in any way. The N14 is not a bad motor, it does suffer from a couple of bad parts that were produced and installed by other companies...Mini is dealing with it on a case by case basis, as they should.


As for the resale article you quoted, different market......


Accusing others of not supporting you comes not from a lack of understanding of the issue, but simply because we don't agree with your facts or your methods.


Good luck with your lawsuit.


Whenever we get a loudmouth blowhard going on about how MINIs are crap and their service is crap and so on, the one question I can never get them to answer is what exactly they want MINI to do about it? What would make you happy? A new car? New engines for every MINI ever made with an N14? Thousands of dollars of "reparations" for daring to sell you a car that might need repairs someday? What would make you whole again?

 

$2 hose vs a $2000/ car repair, not quite the same thing, is it?

 

LOL We have a psychic. ^^^^

Please, explain to me, the issue with the timing chain on the N14 engine.

Teach me how to explain it to Mini Customer Service.

 

Hey....Lord Kinboat....MOTOR ON.

 

Since so many people here, are losing their minds over my criticism of Mini, I will write a few paragraphs explaining the question I put to Mini customer service.

Me Hello; I have a problem with my Mini Cooper S.

Customer Service; Do tell.

Me Mini was first advertised as a quality vehicle. When the N14 engine was introduced it was touted as being superior to anything on the market.

However my timing chain has failed twice, because of a defect in the tensioner. An technical bulletin was released by you, that said to replace the tensioner with a new model that had a stronger internal spring.

Since limits on warranties are not in effect, if the company knows a part is defective, should you not cover the repair cost on the tensioner?

Customer Service. Can I have your Vin please.

Me yes XXXX999

Customer Service. Your vehicle is off warranty.

Me Yes I know that. I am saying that your vehicle was sold as a superior vehicle, and that the customer would have an expectation of quality and workmanship. A timing chain is expected to last 120,000 miles. Your timing chain fails at as little as 20,000 miles. This happens so frequently to customers, that the issue is known as the death rattle.

Customer Service; I am sorry sir your vehicle is off warranty.

Me You are not getting my point, this is not a warranty issue, this is an issue about implied warranty. The fact that Mini knew that the car has a defect but didn't inform the customer. Nor inform the customer how to prevent the issue by changing service recommendation.

Customer Service; Thank you for calling Mini customer service, is there anything else I can help you with today?

 

Uh huh. Have you been to the dealer and asked them to replace your tensioner? Is it faulty (ie making noise or causing a check engine light?)


Is your timing chain causing you problems of any kind that you can identify?


Do you know whether your car already has the new, improved tensioner?


If you have the old style tensioner and you're really concerned that your tensioner might fail, why not go buy the latest and greatest and put it in yourself, or pay someone to do it, then ask for reimbursement?


Your car is 5 years old, how long do you expect them to cover it when their stated warranty is 4 years? Because you explaining to them how their warranty works might have been your first mistake and the reason they told you to have a nice day (Corporate speak for pound sand, buddy)


If those were truly your words, do you not see how poorly chosen they were? And why they were ineffective? Looks like I am a phychic after all.


Allow me to ask again.... "what exactly do you want MINI to do for you? What would make you happy? A new car? New engines for every MINI ever made with an N14? Thousands of dollars of "reparations" for daring to sell you a car that might need repairs someday? What would make you whole again?"

 

Lord, You and I are not going to agree on this but I will say that the objection I have to your argument is that you insist on calling this condition a defect. Unfortunately you do not have enough empirical evidence to support your claim.

How many N14 motors had Peugeot manufactured either for MINI or themselves?
How many of those have had tensioner failures?
How many that have had a single failure have had more than one failure?

See where I am heading? There are plenty of N14 motors right here on this forum that haven't had the failure. Not that they won't perhaps someday but that is not something that you can assign any reasonable value to. It is an unknown.

You have also claimed the Timing Chain is defective. However, That chain has been used in many different motors and has not been considered to be a failed part. (Per a conversation I had with BMW)

You act like no other auto maker has ever had a part need to be updated because of what is learned in production. Things do happen, MINI actually has acknowledged it because they published a TSB for this. Its not a secret. They also set guidelines for tolerance of slack. They even have a tool that the insert to measure slack where the tensioner goes. Etc. Etc.

The reality is that there have been cases of the original tensioner backing out. There was a update to the tensioner that was improved. It's a chicken and egg thing. If they tension is reduced on the chain then it has the potential to damage the plastic guides. If that happens, then the chain can jump a sprocket and the motor can be ruined.

You said earlier that you have a high horsepower fox body so it sounds like you have the knowledge to be able to comprehend what is being said here and also to be able to maintain a MINI the way it needs to.

It is also probably true that there are legal actions that have been threatened or filed, but I have no first hand knowledge of that.

You feel you have been wronged, I get that. But this isn't going to get your car fixed. Pay to fix it. Sell it. Sue MINI for the damages of the failure and the diminished value and put this behind you.

Best of luck.

 

Uh Huh.

I bought it with 40,000 km on it, from the dealer. After my latest tensioner failed, I found out that it was changed before.

I had my oil changed at the dealership according to the owners manuals recommendations.

I was not aware of the issue, until I heard the death rattle and did some investigation.

I have worked on many race cars. Tearing down dozens of engines in my life. I have never heard of a timing chain failing after 20,000 miles.

I can explain what happened, and so you may understand.

Mini engineers shot themselves in the foot with a 13,000km oil change recommendation. Why? Because the tensioner was designed to work with full hydraulic pressure. Anything less and the internal spring could not provide the pressure necessary to keep the rails tight against the chain.

Mini started to see failures on cars with as little as 20,000 kms and soon figured out that the tensioner was to blame. However they didn't recommend oil change intervals of 8,000 kms instead of 13,000 kms. This would have reduced many of the failures.

Mini didn't inform the customer base, because it hoped that most people would make it off warranty before they faced a failure. The fact that Mini knew can be traced to tech memos from as far back as 2008.

There are implied Warranty laws in the United States and Canada. They state that a customer should have a reasonable expectation of quality and workmanship. In other words anyone should expect a timing chain to outlast a timing belt.

Does that help you understand the issue?

 

You do realize this is a $44 part your talking about, that simply screws into the head?

It might take you all of 10 minutes to change it.....instead you want to rally the troops and start a paper war?


I completely understand the issue, I've worked on all sorts of Minis/MINIs for over 40 years now. As the astute owner, technician, racecar builder that you are, just because MINI recommended you change the oil every 13km (or one year - here in the states), that means you can't change it any more frequently if you think it will make the engine last longer?


I think you're tilting at windmills here, you've taken this subject on and you're going to run with it now - it's a matter of principal or something.


Again, good luck with it.


05R50 gave you a lot of good information there, maybe you should read it?

 

I have the evidence that Mini was aware they had a defect. see previous technical bulletins.

I have evidence that Mini redesigned the Tensioner. Why would they redesign it to provide more tension, unless not enough tension was an issue? See image below. Also Mini has changed their oil change schedule. Reducing the period between changes.

Lastly, I have to ask you about the common sense of the issue. HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT A TIMING CHAIN TO LAST?

 

I've said it more than once on several different Mini forums. As much as I enjoy the driving experience I get from my Mini I would never own one that didn't have a new car warranty. Before the warranty on my '13 runs out I will have another car, possibly a Mini.

 

Perhaps when Toyota starts building all of the engines, things will improve greatly.

The First gens had few engine issue when they were dodge. The french motor is a big disappointment.

It makes a great car a lemon, because it can only be as good as it's weakest link.

 

So, again you have completely dodged everyone of my questions....


This is for your girlfriend's 2007, right? Her 8 year old car, right?


And you're unhappy because MINI won't give you a free chain tensioner?


That's the issue, right?

 

Wow quite an interesting thread, some very good advice was given.

According to JD power you should buy a Lexus. Go for it & make friends on the Lexus forum. I bet they swap tips on how to stay awake while driving such a boring car. MINI's are not perfect, but they're a H*ll of a lot of fun.

 

Your questions were irrelevant, and you conflate the love for your mini with a personal attacks, if someone should dare criticize your loved one.

But to humor you I will answer each of your points.

1. Beside the point.

2. No I am unhappy that Mini knows they have a defective part and don't respect their customers enough to acknowledge that fact. There are laws against breach of implied Warranty and that is why there are so many Lawsuits again mini in regard to the issue.

3. How you stated the issue was not the issue at all. But I can't control the fans need to overlook manufacturer defects. Blind to reality simply because that have a "50 Shades of Gray" relationship with their car.

 

Why are you so passive aggressive?!
It it a VERY bad trait....
But fact is car is old...out of warrenty.
Would be nice if they had figured out a fix...but if a manufacture builds a crap product, are they responsible for it FOREVER?
many folks on the edge of the warrenty period DO/DID GET COVERED..but at 8 years...regardless of miles, I think you have no right to be mad...
If the fact it was done previously under warrenty did not make you get rid of it due to the risk of it happening again....not sure what to say...
And YES, driving style, oil use, etc do affect the life of the timing chain...
20,000 miles eachbis at the absurd level, yes...but why keep it?!
Sure, not YOUR CHOICE, it was HERS...
So don't stress it...fix it, sell it, and move on.you are doing no good getting yourself in knots about a situation YOU cannot change...you tried, apparently, and are now mad...
And you show it, fine...you can vent...but you chart proves you were going to have an issue, and you kept the car...so keeping it is just a calculated risk you lady took, and she lost. Many of us have won the gamble, and drive our cars and love them!! I'm 10+ years...no major issues beyond regulary scheduled stuff, about 90,000 miles. Does being an informed owner help, yes...
Not gonna tell you to go pout in the corner like a 3 year old having a temper tantrum, cause I was once like you, having an issue with a 88' honda civic that had excessive cam wear, and the dealer said "soft cam" many cars have them, out of warrenty...I appealed it with more than 2x the mile limit of the warrenty, and the regional manager DID cover it, and the re-ringed it, and did some extra stuff, no cost....
I followed the procedure in the warrenty book, kept a good attitude, and I was made MORE THAN WHOLE, and ran the car to 270,000 miles...the issue was at about 80,000....and I was the second owner, and it was 4 years old at the time....

 

Why do people find, that stating an opinion is passive aggressive.

People keep saying it is out of warranty. But that is not the point I am making. The point is that there is a principle called implied warranty. And that Mini concealed the reality that their tensioner did not come close to meeting the standard of expectation.

Perhaps many of the respondance do not understand that concept?

Let me give you another analogy.

You buy a light bulb. It has a limited warranty of 100 hours though it is rated for 1,000. At 400 hours it explodes and showers you with glass.

You expected that the light bulb would burn out. But you also didn't expect it to explode. The exploding part is called a defect.

therefore You expect a timing chain to last the life of an engine. The industry standard is 10 years 120,000 miles. Customers expect a timing chain to last that long. The fact that Minis timing chain give out after 20,000 miles would be called a defect. Warranty is not the same as implied warranty.

 

Well, its a $60 hose, on a $300 faucet.

Given a $2000 timing chain on a 25K+ car... its a major part.. without it you have a pile of crap in both instances...

 

I think this explains everything.....I am on the side of MINI here.

If you can't see what is wrong with your approach and after all the comments you remain insolent..... there is simply no more to say and the outcomes will remain just as they are

 

.

 

Let's see, you call people stupid and morons yet you want them to put their arm around you, grab their torches and pitchforks and march into a war with you? You haven't posted anything positive in the four years you've been a member here. MOTOR ON

 

I am not here to be a Mini fan. I am here to provide information and read.

If you don't like what I have to say, go elsewhere. Don't bother making juvenile comments about my character when you don't even know me.

Posters have said that I was hostile with Mini, even though they weren't privy to any conversation. Then talk about an issue they obviously have no understanding of.

The reason I haven't posted much positive about Mini, is because there isn't much positive to say.

The car is a lemon, and mini customer service in negligent.

First Gen, the CVT issue.

Second Gen, the death rattle and leaky Jarvis heart pump.

Or the VVT and the power steering pump.

All joyous things that should have been fixed by mini immediately.

p.s. If dimwitted posters are going to continue making inane comments, yeah eventually I will give it to them. Whaaaaaa. Life is tough and then you die.