I have driven a Cooper S for the last 6 yrs and love it. But it's a 2007 and has some issues. I am thinking of trading it in and getting a 2013 before they are all gone. I don't like what they've done to the 2014's. I have been thinking of getting a Justa but wonder if it will have enough spunk for mountain driving. I live in the Sierra foothills. Can't test drive it up here as the nearest dealer is in the flats of Sacramento, 50 miles away. I want to have enough oomph to climb our hills ant to merge safely on freeways. I am an older woman so speed isn't so important but safety and handling are.

 

I've never had any problems with mountains. On the freeway there's not a lot of get up and go in 6th, but I have no problem dropping into 4th if I need to move.

 

S, or you'll regret it.

 

Justa will do fine with curves and handling, but it won't have that punch like the S has. I say get another S...

 

I've owned multiple MINIs, normally aspirated and turbocharged (all with manual transmissions), and have done spirited alpine driving in them all during past MITM events. It is in this particular environment (steep grades at high altitude) that I've observed the greatest difference in performance between the two. The boosted engine continues to put power to the drive train and supported good acceleration even up steep grades. The regular air breather required significant down-shifting just to maintain speed, spending a whole lot more time above 5K rpm (plus, a turbo VW Jetta blew my doors off on one particular climb and that left a bad taste).

I love my '13 Justa-Roadster more than any of my previous MINIs -- but I don't have to deal with thin mountain air in combination with significant elevations changes here in the Driftless topography of NE Iowa / SE MN / SW Wisconsin. If I lived in or near the mountains, I would have almost certainly have favored the S to get the benefit of the boost.

 

I live on a mountain - my justa/auto performs great and is especially suitable for adult driving. Your dealer being some distance can also be a factor - the Cooper S cars are known to require more maintenance.

 

I get along fine with my Justa. You "justa" need to pay attention, plan ahead and be prepared to work the engine and transmission to stay up in the torque curve. Even then you will notice a significant power difference in the mountains between the S and non-S versions. Particularly when accelerating up a long grade. You can't be lazy with a Justa in the mountains.

There is an old "rule of thumb" that a naturally aspirated engine (like a non-S) loses about 3 percent of its sea level horsepower for each 1000 feet in elevation. So, at 5000 feet, you would lose about 15 percent of your sea level horsepower. Your 121hp Justa is now closer to 103hp.

A forced induction engine (like an S) does not suffer this power loss as altitude increases. Your 181hp S is still essentially 181hp.

Yes - I know the physics are more complicated - this is just a general "rule of thumb".

 

I can second this. I live by the ocean and my Justa is pretty punchy, I don't have any problems merging or passing. On the rare occasion when I travel into the mountains and have to climb up steep grade highways, I'm definitely wishing for a turbo. I know the newer generation Justa has more power than my R50, but I'd still go for the S model if you're going to be doing a lot of driving at higher elevations.

 

+1,000,000

I went from a 2002 MCS to a 2006 JCW. I had both for a while during the time I had the 2002 for sale. I would run the 2002 every now and then until I sold it not to let it sit for too long. When I did I would miss the JCW power so, so much. It was like night and day.

I would stick with the S.

 

The problem, I think, is that as you gain altitude in the mountains, there is less oxygen for the engine to breath. So the more altitude you gain, the weaker the Justa will be. The turbocharger (or supercharger on earlier versions) on the S mitigates that problem to a great degree.

 

Thank you to everyone for all the input. I live at 1200 ft elevation and climb up to 3500 ft elevation almost everyday to get to Grass Valley and Nevada City. I will probably go with an automatic after years of driving a stick. (Hip issues at the advanced age of 71 Sounds like a Justa would be fine but that I would miss the power of an S. We don't climb up to higher elevations than this very often.

 

The "justa" should be just fine for your purposes, as long as you keep the engine in it's power band. You definatly will have to shift to a lower gear to maintain that power band when climbing on a grade, and you won't be winning any "drag races" with those who may choose to pass you, but the justa will handle the grade just fine.
One thing you do not want to do in an automatic climbing a grade is to allow the transmision to "hunt" (constant upshifts/downshifts) because you have it in too high a gear for the grade.
Of course if you perfer the greater power an "S" would provide that fine also, just be aware of the reliabily issues that come with them and check your oil level relegiously.

 

I think the Cooper will get the job done but the power-loss adjustment you have to do may take some time and patience.

In my experience, keeping a Cooper in its power band is key but that's part of the art with a small displacement engine, no?

By the way, I hate the term Justa...There's a Cooper and a Cooper S.

There ain't nuthin' Justa about my Mini Cooper...

 

Well you could say it's "justa" reliable Mini Cooper vs the unreliable "S" Mini Cooper.
I too believe the "justa" designation was and is intended to demean the non "S" Mini Cooper as substandard somehow.
The truth is the non turdo'd Mini Cooper is a very nice and reliable alternative to the turbo powered Mini Cooper that , while having more power, is plagued with problems and can be very expensive to maintain.
Also there tends to be a demeaning stigma attached to those Min Cooper owners who would perfer the convienience of an automatic transmission over the standard (along with it's clutch related maintenance expenses) transmission as somehow not being a true sports car enthusiast.
Of course it's all pure hogwash as both Mini Cooper models (equiped any way you wish) are fine as long as you understand the ramifications of your choice between the two.

 

God some of the people on here need to stop talking about themselves and what's important to them haha.

If you still want the punch then stay with a MCS. The N18 is a pretty reliable engine too compared to the N14. Can't wait to hear what you choose.

 

I'm wondering how much I'll be hosed trading in my 07 S. I have sold cars on Craig's List before but they were trouble free Honda's so I want to trade this one in instead of passing on my oil eating MINI in a direct transaction. It does have low mileage so hopefully that will help.

 

The good news is the resale value of the 1st of the 2nd generation Minis is still pretty good, especially here in California.

I have an 2006 with 122K miles. Even though it's in fine shape, I've gotten enough use out of it that in my head I apply zero value to it. When the day comes for me to sell it, I won't worry too much how much I can get for it.

I am guessing you have far fewer miles which means your Cooper S likely has quite a bit of value left. That said, if you can be sure to sell it yourself to avoid the hosing you refer to.

 

I'm an adult with adult children and would not consider a justa even in the flat state of TX I live in. The turbo is what make the MINI fun.

 

AMEN ... question is altitude ... without a blower the thinner air means the engine produces less HP.

I've only driven across the Rockies once but I remember that my very reliable Miata was REALLY wheezing when I got to the top and started down the other side. I-80 .. I have no idea what the altitude was but she was havin' a hard time. Down shift didn't help, the engine was just not producing the UMPH I was used to. 7000 feet sound right? {playing with Google Earth it looks like the high point on I-80 is over 8000 .. close to 9 .. sound right?) Once back down toward sea level (and while going down hill rather than UP) things went back to normal. .. I live in FL now, no such issues any more!

Same thing applied in early WWII ... fighter planes with superchargers could go higher and fly faster at altitude than planes that didn't have 'blowers' .. they had more power at altitude .. this in the days of piston engine planes of course . . .

If you are staying under 4000 ft as mentioned later ... I doubt you'll see as much difference . . but if it were me . . .