We've had lots of negative comments here lately and its starting to get old. Now CR jumps in and rates the Countryman S as a "worst value". I'd be curious to know if any of you subscribe to CR and if you would be so kind as to share what their logic is for slamming the Countryman. Thanks.

 

The online review doesn't say anything like that. Where did you here this?

 

i gave up on consumer reports 25 years ago

scott

 

Autoblog

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/27/c...oyota/#content

 

Who cares, we love our cars, that's what matters. At least it isn't as bad as the Forbes review of the top 10 ugliest cars of 2012, the Coupe is on that list. While Consumer Reports does take reviews from consumers about their vehicles, what business does a finance magazine have getting a fashion editor to decide the beauty of a car...

 

If anybody was to base their purchase off of information they read out of a magazine, then they are a fool. Yes, tipping the scales of $30K for the AwD isn't the best bang for your wallet, but just like supercars, if it's your kind of taste, and you can afford it, who cares. You want value while saving some ching, go buy a Prius, just make sure you don't wreck, they didn't get too good of reviews recently. Me and my wife want a Countryman for when we have a family. It's compact, yet very roomy, it's sporty, and retains it's resale value after said number of years, unlike all these Honda's and Toyota's out on the market.

 

The Countryman isn't necessarily a value proposition, is it. It's a premium small SUV (not based just on price, but also on fit and finish).

Sure we pay a premium for our Countrymen. But who among us would be happy with the cheap plasticky grey Japanese interior of any Toyota? Or that beige garbage Chevy makes fun of in their commercials? Certainly not me.

That said, this article is spot on, imo. You get what you pay for. You want value? You'll certainly want a Toyota.

 

also on the list was this:
"Best value for a sports car/convertible: Mini Cooper
Worst value for a sports car/convertible: Volvo C70 (T5)"

Worst Value does not equal defective or poorly made, but rather the cost vs performance/features available, and re-sale value.

 

Remember years ago when CR slammed the Chevy Prizm, yet lavished accolades on the Toyota Corolla? Someone forgot to tell them they were made on the same assembly line with the same parts. :-\

 

I'm sorry, I went on such a mindless rant above last night that I feel I need to clarify.

From the original Consumer Reports article:

"How do we measure value? The same way you may measure value in any other investment: by weighing the cost, benefit, and risk. The cars that are the best values are those that combine a low cost to operate, good reliability, and good performance in our tests."

Now, let's fit the Countryman into this measurement:

Low cost to operate - all MINIs come with free maintenance for the first 3 years/36,000 miles. Subsequent maintenance can be done DIY or on the cheap, as with any other vehicle on the road.

Good reliability - not the best from a general standpoint (just based on casual observance the MINI is no Honda), however there haven't been any major horror stories about the CM from what I know. It's also in its first few production years so there's no way long term reliability can even be measured at this point.

Good performance - Without going into particulars, the CMS will outperform any other small SUV on the road today.

So how is the CM is the worst value in small SUVs? Some would argue that you don't get enough SUV in the CM for what you pay for (which is what I originally assumed CR measured in this report). This is where "value" becomes extremely subjective. Value is measured by your right to spend your hard-earned money on whatever YOU want, not where some automotive editor thinks your hard earned money should be best spent.

Sure a CRV is thousands cheaper, but as mentioned before do I really want to waste my money on a cheap plasticky interior, blah performance and handling, and a sheepish vehicle everyone thinks I should buy? Or do I want premium interior materials, superior handling and comfort, in a vehicle I will be spending up to 2-4 hours a day of my life in? I value the latter, thanks, and that extra money spent is well worth it imo. Settling for the cheap practical reliable me-too SUV would be the hugest waste of my money ever, from my perspective. I'd regret owning such a vehicle from day 1.

At the risk of sounding like a MINI billboard (Not Normal), this is where value is determined by you as an individual. From this perspective this article and their definition of value is absolutely worthless.

 

@Drew

I didn't find anything distasteful or mindless in both your posts. You clarified your original post with a well thought out explanation from your perspective. Since you appear to have the CR article I'd like to re-ask my original question. Did they give an explanation for their rating parameters on the Mini specifically or did they just construct that list based on the criterion you listed originally?? To me, cost, reliability, and performance are good places to start. But as you point out there are a lot of other factors (important to us individually) that are hard to measure statistically.

Since I will probably be purchasing one next week I was interested in their methodology. Others here have pointed out that CR is the last place one should look for information on vehicle purchases. I largely agree but they are the only ones out there that have a numerical database covering issues the enthusiast either doesn't care about or in which they aren't interested. Crash ratings, nvh, mileage ratings, insurance costs, and costs to operate are very important factors to consider in my opinion. Ignoring them is certainly an option but if you find yourself the victim of oversight, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Witness the horrible self-immolation of Mini's reputation with Sir Stirling's post on this site of his nightmare experience with his Countryman and his dealer experiences. What appeared to be an isolated experience soon turned into a litany of owners who have undergone similar experiences. As expected all the testosterone emerged from most innards and it became some pretty awful reading here. This is a fiercely loyal and passionate group of devotees much like the Subie owner's groups and to say anything bad about Mini here is considered anathema. Since I am looking for all the information that I can find on the Countryman before purchase, I came here to gauge owner's experiences. The results so far have been mixed. If you like your Mini you like your Mini, if you don't, you don't. So when I ran into the CR report, I wanted to know their methodology. Should you be able to find that methodology I would really appreciate you posting it here. I suspect that they arbitrarily constructed that list from their 3 ranking items and just divided those categories into a convenient (for them) list. Small, medium, and large/luxury SUVs to me, does not describe the class of vehicles in which the Countryman belongs. Oh, by the way, I will be buying an automatic and hopefully not have to worry about the infamous "smelling clutch".

 

panayoti please check your PMs. I did not read the article, however fortunately my sister has access to the report. I can email a PDF copy over to you (can't post it here as I believe it violates the forum TOS)

Also, thanks pointing out the other threads. I will say this much...Sir Stirling's thread seem very (almost ominously) similar to multiple threads regarding clutch failures in the regular R56 forums a few years back. From personal experience, having owned a manual MCS for 4 years with no catastrophic clutch failure I can only chalk it up to owners' personal experiences. I definitely wouldn't discount them, but at the same time, based on personal experience, I can't say it would discourage me completely from buying a CM. Especially if you're buying an automatic.

Unfortunately the report doesn't make things any cheerier, BUT at the same time the report isn't very detailed either in terms of how they get their ratings. You'll see what I mean.

 

I had difficulty finding the page where they had these value ratings. I was looking at their ratings page, they give the Countryman a score of 66, which puts it in the middle of the Very Good range, and it costs $32k.

At the bottom of their table for small SUVs is the Jeep Liberty with a rating of 27 which puts it in the Fair category and costs $26k.

It seems to me that the Countryman outscores the Liberty at least ($480/point vs $960/point.)