Hey guys,

I just recently traded in my 2010 clubman for a 2012 coupe S. I've had pretty good luck with my clubman, and no major issues with the car. I'm just now finding comments made that the Type S cooper was rated poorly for reliability, in the new consumer reports.

Can anyone elaborate on any knowledge or experience about this?

 

Yes, Consumer Reports is an unreliable source of information.

 

I stopped reading consumer reports (as far as related to cars) when they said my 1981 Corvette had body rust issues. Still waiting to see rust holes in the fiberglass body.....

 

Consumer Reports doesn't have any good way to compare them. They are taking feedback from Mini's where many of the buyers are modifying and racing the car and comparing it with Toyota Camery where housewives haul their rug rats to school.

It's very lobsided.

I once bought a Windows CE handheld computer because consumer Reports claimed it would run Microsoft Office and the competitors couldn't. Turned out it was read only and terrible at that. Then I bought the Palm which CR reported couldn't do it and it did it fantastically with a $5 add on program.

When Consumer Reports gets beyond floor cleaners and spot removers they are out of their element.

 

I would not expect the S to be as trouble free as a Justa. Many people on this forum will confirm the S has several trouble spots. At the same time when an engine is pumping out better than 100 HP per liter you are talking about a very high performance motor and in this context it is remarkable - IMHO

 

An S That is driven hard is more likely to have an issues....fact.
Mini are often bought by younger folks, driven hard, sold. Fact.
Are mini's perfect...no...mine has been nearly so since 2005.....
But here is a tip...the S once had a different motor than the non s...n14 vs n18...
Now they both have the same n18....the s took a couple extra years to make the switch....so this fact must be accounted for....and the consumer reports just hops them as s vs non s, year by year....

 

CR is far from perfect, but it is BY FAR the very best reliability data we have.

Yes, Mini owners may drive their cars harder, but they also are relatively forgiving of all kinds of sins that would have the average Lexus owner running back to the dealer screaming at the top of your lungs. I think it evens out.

Anybody who thinks that the relatively poor showing of Mini's in CR's survey results is all or mostly due to bias, poor data, or owner differences is deluding themselves. Mini's are average to below average in general, and the S models are notch down from the normally aspirated models - this is to be expected as there is more stuff to go wrong, underhood temps are higher, and the entire drivetrain and chassis is being worked over harder. The data we have from other sources (magazine long-term tests, other surveys, forum averages, etc.) backs CR up. They're not the worst car out there by any stretch (Range Rovers and Jaguars probably are the worst new cars overall), but they're not even in the same ballpark reliability-wise, as an average Honda, Toyota, or Mazda. Now we're talking averages here, and there are perfect Mini's and lemon Hondas.

Doesn't mean Mini's aren't great cars to own. Reliability may be the end-all thing you look for in a refrigerator, but cars have to do more. Which the Mini generally does. Find a good mechanic, keep after things, don't abuse them, and they can be reliable-enough cars. But if you're the sort that is going to get all bent out of shape every time your car has a problem, you should get something else.

- Mark

 

My 2010 S has been perfectly reliable. My 1971 MG Midget was not. I don't have to carry a box of spare parts in the trunk because I KNOW it's not going to make it to where I'm going.

Hell in fact, every car I've bought since 1986 has been reliable. 1986 Mazda Rx7, 1990 4runner, 93 F150, 95 BMW M3 (still own it), 2001 Audi A6, and now my S.

But you have to remember that reliable and trouble free, aren't the same thing. The Mazda, Toyota, and BMW were, (and the M3 still is) trouble free. None of them EVER left me stranded or needing a tow.

 

Consumer Reports tests are about as good as anyone's opinion that does a short term test of something. The problem is they are perceived by the general public as being VERY accurate. They aren't.

If you read their report on any product group that you are VERY knowledgable about, it becomes apparent that they don't really know too much about the subject and are just trying to learn the basics quickly and get the article written.

They are a good source but not the END source.

 

I think that Mark is exactly correct. The MINI is a great car but it is not a transportation appliance. MINI owners should expect they will need to care for their cars and they should also calibrate themselves such that having a mechanical issue will not upset them. If you adjust your expectations to this level you should truly enjoy your ownership experience. It is possible you could own a MINI and never have a problem but on average this is not likely to happen.

Make no mistake we love our MINI's and would not hesitate to buy again but we are also realistic and know we traded of reliability and comfort for fun and excitement - a fair exchange in my mind.

Also, I noted that the cars Mark mentioned as the most unreliable were all British :-) maybe that's just his experience.

 

It boils down to the people who use Consumer Reports to shop for cars no nothing about cars. They think that you can buy a car and never do maintenance on it for the entire warranty and everything should be good. Also Consumer Reports should probably put a clause in their magazine's that states "individual us may vary" and it would be alittle bit better.

 

I disagree with the general assessment that CR "knows nothing about cars." They do have a somewhat more utilitarian focus in their views of cars than many of us have, but they're actually very rigorous in their evaluations - I think more rigorous than any of the car magazines. And CR has become more open-minded and enthusiast-oriented as the years have gone by - they like cars like Miatas, Corvettes, Porsches, and Minis. While not that last word in deciding about a car to buy, they're definitely an opinion that should be considered.

And never forget that the car magazines, because they accept advertising, are anything but objective. CR accepts no advertising money so they have nothing to lose by being critical.

Final point: if you look at the last decade and compare the cars the magazines like and the cars the CR likes, guess what? They're remarkable similar. So if you feel that CR "doesn't get it", then you're also saying that all the publications "don't get it."

My observation is that people think the publications that say the car they're driving is good are objective and accurate while the publications that say the car they're driving is bad are biased and inaccurate.

- Mark

 

I saw a CR report lumping both generations of S models together...that was enough for me to know to steer clear of them.

 

What report? Their annual car issue clearly differentiates the data by model year which keeps the 1st gen and 2nd gen S models separate. In fact, the data clearly shows a generally positive trend in S reliability as the 1st gen models progress, then a huge negative spike when the 2nd gen appeared in 2007. Which exactly mirrors the anecdotal comments in forums like this.

I don't recall how good a job they do differentiating the various Hardtop, Coupe, Clubman, Countryman, etc. models. I think some of these they have reported "insufficient data".

- Mark

 

It was an article someone posted a link to on here saying something along the lines of "the MINI Cooper S, with either a supercharged or turbocharged engine" should be avoided or something along those line. I remember the lumping together being done in that manner and just shaking my head and making a mental note to never trust a source that can't differentiate between the two..

 

Still want to know:
1. The size of CR's sample.
2 What problems are being reported and are they significant.
and
3. who are these people that they are using (age group and type of driver)

CR is far from perfect. My dad told me a story where he was selling Kitchen Aid Dishwashers and in the 60's was the best that there was. CR tested dishwashers and ranked the Westinghouse as better so the people that were in the apartment buildings that he had established a relationship decided to follow CR's report and one year later 50% of the Westinghouses were replaced with Kitchen Aids. (there were over 200 families in these buildings.)

And then there is Toyota. (maybe reliable but with all of these recalls are they safe?) Latest was Prius for Electric Steering. In my eyes, CR is not the end all for the consumer. It's a starting point. You need to read long term tests by automobile publications and then draw your own conclusions.

 

Consumer Reports frequently rates terrible cars and appliances high. They also only test base meds of cars and will cut points for having options on,y available in high-priced packages. The mini base model, even in S, is pretty barebones, and I wouldn't expect it to get a high rating. My mom emailed me when CR downgraded the mini S to unreliable. My reply, let me guess, it's Toyota at the top of every list. That reduces credibility for me. CR dinged the Mini for its numerous recalls (it was mentioned in article), but not Toyota?

The S models last reviewed completely by the way were the 2007 Hatchback S MT and 2010 convertible S MT. The new reports are based on road test drives and not the battery of 50 tests. They also refer to those user surveys.

From the bottom of 2013 mini S hatchback review

I log into the website to check out reports of stuff, and the highly rated products (strangely the same brands time and again) have hundreds, sometimes thousands, of comments from subscribers about how terrible or unreliable the product is, and that's on the paid subscription site. That always makes me rethink choices. According to CR, they adjust rating based on surveys to their millions of subscribers, but looking at the member only site, I don't see that as actually happening.

 

As a new (and first time) Mini owner, I have read and fretted over all of the horror stories about Minis, particularly the clutch problems, which seem to happen early on, and Mini seems to like to weasel out of the warranty coverage.

I'm hoping that these are just strange anamolies that have been overexagerated by the owners.

If it's a comfort to Mini owners outs there . . . I read the same horror stories about Land Rovers. They were not only dead last on the reliability ratings . . . they dead last by a LONG SHOT. We purchased a 2008 LR2, and it was positively the best car we've ever owned. Pure pleasure to drive, the ultimate bad weather car. Excellent service from the dealer. A little on the expensive side to maintain, but pretty much trouble-free. We loved it so much, we just traded it in on a new one.

 

Had an 09 Clubman(purchased new), put on 49k miles without a single issue. Not even creaking noises. Purchased a Range Rover Evoque earlier this year(with LR having the worst reliability rating) and not a single issue either(yet-at 6k miles). Picking up an 09 Clubman S JCW today and I'm hoping this trend continues(knock on wood).

 

Have fun with the JCW, and good luck! Although I've been offered a drive in a few of them, I've never taken them up on it - afraid my non-S would feel like a blender afterwards LOL.

To the thread, I always take Consumer Reports with a grain of salt. While they're not the most intricate testing and reporting - at least they give it a shot. On the plus side, they convinced my bro-in-law not to buy a used Audi - saving me likely hundreds of hours of "what happened this time" research.

For the MINI S model, I feel their current write-up (quoted above) is laughable, and should be brought to their attention. Testing a 2010 and applying that "data" forward to a 2013 is a joke. Even if every single part was identical and "unchanged", they didn't come from the 2010 batch - rendering their "testing" (or lack thereof) completely out of date.

 

Glad you're enjoying your Evoque. I got one as a loaner recently. Sweet ride. BTW, am I the only one who thinks the new Paceman is like a miniature Evoque?

 

Motortrend does as well. They made mention of thatvin their Paceman road test