I recently bought a used Mini Cooper S (2009) and am learning to drive manual transmission on it. I have a general question for all of you experienced stick-drivers! When I slow down a lot (for a red light, stop sign, or traffic) but end up not having to stop completely, and I can roll through at a very slow speed (5 mph or less), should I be in second or first gear? Sometimes the car shudders in second at that low a speed, but I've read a few places that you should never downshift into first unless you're planning to come to a complete stop. Thanks!

 

As long as you do not hear a big engine rev when you downshift into first you are fine. Sometimee i find i need yo use first/second, back and forth reapetely in traftic when going very slow...very useful in not having to stop, and mataining a speed, even if very slow, rather than zooming ahead stopping...zoomonh ahead....repeat!!
Just remember, do not be on the clutch when uou are not shifting...like a hill, stoplight, etc.

 

If the car is shuddering (lugging), then that is a sign you are in too high a gear. So in those situations, you should shift down. I find I can generally get it into first gear without any "fight" if I am below 5 mph. Generally the slower the better and if I know I'm getting ready to hit a situation like that, I'll intentionally stop short so I can come to a complete stop since that is preferred.

 

Generally if you are still moving even quite slowly, second gear should fine w/o lugging. When completely stopped, always try to use first.

 

I usually pick 1st is I'm below about 5 or 6 mph or so, otherwise i give the gas very small blip before going into second and that usually prevents the shudders and results in a smooth transition. I'm not sure if that's right or not, but it works for me. Also, I'm in an R53, if that means anything.

 

Second for anything but a complete stop.

 

Go find a big school parking lot on a lazy Saturday morning and spend a little time just getting the feel for it. Avoid lugging the engine as stated by an earlier poster as this can cause catastrophic mechanical damage to the engine. Get in the habit of keeping your foot off the clutch pedal at all times except when shifting, this includes taking it out of gear at all traffic stops. The result of riding the clutch pedal can add up to excessive wear on the throw-out bearing. When you get comfortable with this issue come back later and get some advice on rev matching when you down shift. One step at a time...

 

Why?
If you know you are going to come to a stop, leave it in whatever gear you are in until the engine gets to about 1200 rpm, then push in the clutch and come to a stop. If you are not going to stop, then shift into first or second, whichever is the most comfortable for the situation. First gear is good for 40 mph at redline. So that means it will be at about 1500 rpm the car will be going about 10 mph. If you are at 10 mph or less, why not use first and not lug the engine in second?

 

My husband taught me that if I am coming to a red light or stop sign, or whatever kind of stop, (I usually coast in neutral anyway), and I end up not needing to stop, then to slap it back into whatever gear fits the RPM/speed best that I am at. Say, if I'm below 30MPH, I will shift into 2nd. I've never downshifted into 1st, and I don't ever think I would want to lol. Everyone has their own way of driving manual. Some things might be wrong, some things might more right than others. But I drive the way I was taught, as I am sure most others do as well.

Good luck with learning manual! Once you get it, you'll love it even more, and then it just kind of comes natural

 

http://youtu.be/l1A6bzdb8MY

This should help.

 

A lot of people are talking about coming up to a stop of some kind and coasting in neutral. Just FYI new cars especially the MINI do not put gas into the engine for combustion while the car is in gear and coasting. So you will get better mpg by leaving it in gear until you are low in the rpms.

Also for the OP the MINI is a great car to learn how to drive stick because it is very forgivable. It has a smooth shift and is not at all hard to get in gear. My only advice in learning is that when you take it to a parking lot to practice put the car in 1st gear and slowly, I mean super slowly, ease of the clutch pedal till you feel it start to roll forward. Once you feel it start to roll give it gas and let up on the clutch. Good luck and don't get disappointed when you stall it it happens to everyone.

 

While you are right in the fact that the Mini does in fact use no fuel when coasting in gear, I am afraid you may be wrong in stating that this saves more fuel than coasting in neutral.

See the average car's ECU takes about 5 seconds to recognize you are coasting in gear and cut fuel to the engine, so for those 5 seconds you are still using fuel. Combine that with the fact that you can coast much further in neutral than you can in gear and tests have shown that coasting neutral actually gets you better MPG than coasting in gear.

Now I know some people believe it is unsafe to coast in neutral, well that point is left up to the driver, his/her skill, and the car they are driving, so I can't argue that one

 

that advise is only about 40 years out of date

back in the old days, before internet and cell phones, first gear had no syncros so unless you were stopped or very good at rev matching, a shift to first gear would result in "grinding" the gears, second and third (thats all there were) gears had syncros so shifting between them was easy

with our modern transmissions, there is no reason not to shift into first gear if conditions are right

i shift into first all the time

scott

 

The Ecu cuts fuel when the throttle is closed almost instantly. Watch your instant mpg readout go to 99.9 after letting off the gas. Doesn't take anywhere near 5 seconds.

 

mine will jump up into the high 60s or low 70s during a normal upshift and 99.9 almost instantly if i lift off the throttle

scott

 

In the OP's scenario I'd be in 1st, I usually shift into 1st for anything under 9mph and everything is smooth.

To add to the original question, I hear people talking about "riding the clutch" but I just thought that meant using it a lot or actually having it halfway depressed while driving. So is being stopped at a light for 30 sec with the car still in 1st but the clutch depressed bad? I was under the assumption that it didn't really matter since the clutch was disengaged at that moment and no wear would be happening other than making your foot tired.

 

anytime the clutch is depressed there is another componet at work, the throwout bearing

the throwout bearing is what the clutch pedal actuates to disengage the clutch, it is in fact a fragile componet, not designed for any kind of continuous use

the general rule for clutch usage is"

"if the shifter is not moving, the clutch should be disengaged and the left foot should be on the floor, not on the clutch pedal"

i just replaced the original clutch in my 1997 gmc sonoma at 288,000 miles ... the clutch was only about half worn, but the throwout bearing was toast, the clutch would not disengage anymore, i had lots of warning, a rattle that goes away when the clutch is depressed is usually the first sign of throwout bearing distress

scott

 

Well I better knock that off then huh!

Thanks for the great info!

 

Second gear is a much better all around gear than first. It's best to stay in second unless you are going at a crawl (barely moving).

 

There is actually very little truth here, not only is a MPG calculator known to be not the most accurate tool in measuring MPG, but it uses all sorts of things to calculate your MPG ( Vehicle speed sensors from ABS/VDC module, remaining fuel signals from the body integrated unit, fuel signals from the ECM, and engine start signals).

While it does jump up to 99 MPG as soon as your let off the throttle, the engine could be still be using fuel for a few more seconds before it completely cuts out.

 

I have never noticed any lugging in 2nd in my R59 S while still rolling no matter how low the speed but maybe I've never slowed down that far and stayed in 2nd. I tend to stay in 2nd rather than shift on down to first but sometime at 5 mph or less I might go to first. As previously said, though, if you are lugging the engine you should downshift. After you get more experience on the manual you won't even have to think about what you are doing, it will just happen naturally like walking.

 

Even if the ECU takes 5 seconds to cut the fuel, for that five seconds the fuel used should be the same as the fuel used at idle (i.e. coasting in neutral) because in both cases you are no longer applying throttle. So there is no gain to being in neutral for that period of time.

Once the DFCO kicks in, you will be saving fuel versus coasting in neutral because no fuel is being used (down to a point).

You can achieve better mileage coasting in neutral if you are in a situation where you do not need to scrub off speed because you will have to get back on the gas quicker if you are relying on the DFCO instead of coasting in neutral. An example would be cruising down a country road with some hills thrown in the mix. As you come down the hill, better to coast in neutral to maintain momentum for the next uphill segment. However, if there is a stop sign at the bottom of the hill and you will have to stop anyway, better to stay in gear and use the DFCO.

 

This. You can't categorically say 1st only from a complete stop. There are plenty of times in traffic where you are slowly crawling along, and you're going so slow you're even lugging the engine in 2nd. There's no hard, fast rule, except for listening to what the engine is telling you at the time.

 

This may not be relevant to the OP yet, but generally if I'm in the situation OP is in, I just rev match into 1st. I wouldn't suggest learning to rev match just YET, OP, but I would suggest it once you are more comfortable driving your car.

 

Lugging occurs when you are calling for power / acceleration in too high a gear ratio. Spend a little time googling 'engine lugging' to get the big picture and eliminate any confusion. When you learn what it can do to an engine you will swear many an oath to never let it happen.