New dealership in Vermont
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New dealership in Vermont
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Having bought my '05 MCS used and never having a real excuse to drive 3 hours to the nearest dealer, I am so excited that Automaster in Shelburne Vermont, (next to Burlington on Lake Champlain), just opened, as part of all the other makes of cars they sell, a new Mini dealership. I have never seen so many Minis in one place all shiny new. They have approximately 50. Another great reason to visit Vermont this summer. Google Automaster to check out their inventory! Cheers.[/SIZE][/FONT]
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Boxford, MA
Wow, a very disappointing experience. You did the right thing by going the the NH dealer but the Burlington dealer has no choice but to service your car - plus the dealer gets paid for this service. I am lucky as my local dealer - Peabody, MA - has been great. You are 100% correct the salesman may sell you the first car but the service department sells any follow-on cars.
Where have you been servicing your old 05 MINI. I will assume it was an independent so it's not an option for the free maintenance and warranty work - too bad.
Where have you been servicing your old 05 MINI. I will assume it was an independent so it's not an option for the free maintenance and warranty work - too bad.
I did the following evaluation of MINI of Burlington, Vermont, and received some interesting feedback as a result.
I did not have a favorable experience with MINI of Burlington and do not recommend them to my friends and family. For years many of us living in northern Vermont, and who have or coveted MINIs, have pleaded for a local MINI dealership.
When the dealership was announced I was overjoyed! I made the decision to replace my 2005 MINI Cooper S with a 2013 MINI when they were available. In late August 2012 I drove my 2005 MCS to the dealership and expressed interest in purchasing or trading for a new 2013 MINI. I was a customer who has 50+ years experience with Minis and MINIs, done my homework, knew exactly what I wanted in a new MINI, brought the dealership the preprinted order sheet with colors, extras and specs, and I knew the trade-in, average private and dealer sale values of my very low mileage, showroom condition, fully loaded, 2005 MINI Cooper S. I also brought the dealer the full spec sheet on my ‘05 MCS. My research had shown that my car was worth more than $14k. I later confirmed through observation that a MINI in like condition and equally low mileage was sold off a dealer's lot for $15,500. I asked, and got $13,500 from a knowledgeable local buyer, one hour after I listed it on Craig's List. MINI of Burlington offered me $9,000 as a trade. When I expressed my total dissatisfaction they gave me their best offer of $9,500 and would up that offer to $10,000 if I would pay them $1,000 to replace the power steering pump. I did get the power steering pump replaced for $500 elsewhere. The power steering still worked fine, it was occasionally noisy. The MINI service manager told me it would eventually lock the steering and was very unsafe to drive. The fact is that I could have lost my power steering and the MINI would have been difficult to steer, just like all cars without power steering were not that many years ago. It was immediately disappointing to have a Service Manager give, what I perceived, a deceptive answer like that.
After spending nearly two hours of standing around, watching representatives communicate with each other, I realized that MINI of Burlington was not satisfied to make a fair deal. Their choice was: make a thousand dollars profit and make a sale, or stick to thousands of dollars profit and have no car deal. They chose no car deal.
To make a long story short. . . I wrote off MINI of Burlington and went to MINI of Bedford, New Hampshire. I got my brand new 2013 MINI Cooper, built to my specs, for $1,300 less than the best offer from MINI of Burlington. That, coupled with my sale of the '05 MCS gave me a substantial chunk of cash to kit out my new MINI. Plus, I got an additional three hours of motoring bringing home my new MINI.
.
I did not have a favorable experience with MINI of Burlington and do not recommend them to my friends and family. For years many of us living in northern Vermont, and who have or coveted MINIs, have pleaded for a local MINI dealership.
When the dealership was announced I was overjoyed! I made the decision to replace my 2005 MINI Cooper S with a 2013 MINI when they were available. In late August 2012 I drove my 2005 MCS to the dealership and expressed interest in purchasing or trading for a new 2013 MINI. I was a customer who has 50+ years experience with Minis and MINIs, done my homework, knew exactly what I wanted in a new MINI, brought the dealership the preprinted order sheet with colors, extras and specs, and I knew the trade-in, average private and dealer sale values of my very low mileage, showroom condition, fully loaded, 2005 MINI Cooper S. I also brought the dealer the full spec sheet on my ‘05 MCS. My research had shown that my car was worth more than $14k. I later confirmed through observation that a MINI in like condition and equally low mileage was sold off a dealer's lot for $15,500. I asked, and got $13,500 from a knowledgeable local buyer, one hour after I listed it on Craig's List. MINI of Burlington offered me $9,000 as a trade. When I expressed my total dissatisfaction they gave me their best offer of $9,500 and would up that offer to $10,000 if I would pay them $1,000 to replace the power steering pump. I did get the power steering pump replaced for $500 elsewhere. The power steering still worked fine, it was occasionally noisy. The MINI service manager told me it would eventually lock the steering and was very unsafe to drive. The fact is that I could have lost my power steering and the MINI would have been difficult to steer, just like all cars without power steering were not that many years ago. It was immediately disappointing to have a Service Manager give, what I perceived, a deceptive answer like that.
After spending nearly two hours of standing around, watching representatives communicate with each other, I realized that MINI of Burlington was not satisfied to make a fair deal. Their choice was: make a thousand dollars profit and make a sale, or stick to thousands of dollars profit and have no car deal. They chose no car deal.
To make a long story short. . . I wrote off MINI of Burlington and went to MINI of Bedford, New Hampshire. I got my brand new 2013 MINI Cooper, built to my specs, for $1,300 less than the best offer from MINI of Burlington. That, coupled with my sale of the '05 MCS gave me a substantial chunk of cash to kit out my new MINI. Plus, I got an additional three hours of motoring bringing home my new MINI.
.
Most cases you have to go by "real world" data and not KBB. An 05' in perfect condition being sold with a limited warranty off a MINI lot will probably be listed for about $12-13K. Less if there is the usual myrid of repairs requred to make it road worthy for a culpable entity to sell.
So IMO their offer was not that bad.
Seems they were trying their best to work with you on what you expected to get for your MINI you thought was work X, but since it needed some important work like a Power Steering pump, and probably leaking lines, crush rings, clamps, maybe even control arm bushings and other Safety steering components you were too far apart. So then you had an "Inde" shop charge you $500 for what sounds more like a temorary fix since the pump was still making noise, only to get shot down again by them on the trade....?
So in turn, you sold the MINI in a private sale, while still in need of these repairs to someone else for top dollar ? So who"s the bad guy" here ?
And while what they purportedly said was way off base. They have an obligation to repair your new MINI, and congratulations on your new one. But I kinda relate it this way. Never crap where you live or eat. Not sure what if anything happened during your hours of negotiations, but sending your plate back to the Chef is not always the best solution to having a fly in your soup......
While some of what you say may/could be correct you appear to be misreading, or assuming, things that are untrue. My post was my perception and opinion and was so stated.
Also, there was no temporary fix, there was a first class permanent fix with OEM parts by a MINI trained shop for a non-serious problem that was just showing signs of development. Second, the MCS I sold was not in need of repairs, it was in perfect condition. . . I accept. . .
Also, there was no temporary fix, there was a first class permanent fix with OEM parts by a MINI trained shop for a non-serious problem that was just showing signs of development. Second, the MCS I sold was not in need of repairs, it was in perfect condition. . . I accept. . .
....I did get the power steering pump replaced for $500 elsewhere. The power steering still worked fine, it was occasionally noisy.
PS pumps in our cars which are functioning as intended by manufacturer actually make no noise. If yours was still making noises after the purported "first class replacement" then it could have actaually been replaced with a "used" one that was on it's way out....that is typically how they sound when they are towards the end of their life expectancy.
New MINI PS pump alone lists for $770.00 with the $60 dollar core charge. The hose from reservoir to rack is about $47.00 + clamps, and Pump to Rack is almost twice that and needs alum crush rings and banjo bolts. The hydraulic fluid also required is $30 dollars a liter too. And there really isnt any way to get by most of those costs without using parts which are not new.
Labor is about an hr for pump replacement at an Inde shop, and with hose replacement probably 2 hrs. So was just somewhat purplexing how all this could have been done first rate at any shop for $500.00 but still seems to be broke.
Unfortunately, even after your repair done, it was still "unsatisfactory" for MINI standards, as it would have come up as faulty when your MINI was submitted for estimate of repairs to their service dept. Would probably had been better at the time to apply at $500.00 to the original deal on day one IMO.
What some do not realize, is that the Sales Department pays list price to parts department for these parts and they operate under comission based sales. Then the Sales Dept has to pay the labor for the Service Dept to diagnose and install the part. So ANY parts/service work done to your old MINI after they take it in comes directly out of the profiits of that car when re-sold. Dealership's are comprised of 3 separate entities each operating under the guise of one name, one roof and each with their own profit margin/loss. It's not one guy, one wallet in 99% of the cases.
And believe it or not, contrary to what most think. There is actually very little mark up on a brand new MINI. If what you say is true then you purchased your new MINI at less than what an employee of MINI would have paid fo it.....So either count your blessings or make sure there wasn't a mark up before a mark down or some fudged numbers. Been known to happen.
GL, and I hope that Burlington comes around to see the errs of their ways with respect to servicing your MINI !!!
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3rd Gear
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Boxford, MA
I had no problem understanding vtmini38 and I don't see any reason to doubt or challenge his integrity as he was only trying to give other MINI fan a heads up after having a bad experience. The facts as presented are simple:
The Burlington dealer offered a maximum of $9,500 net for a car that he sold easily for $13,500 while he estimated it was worth $14,000 - sounds close to me.
The MINI dealer quoted $1,000 on a repair that he was able to complete for $500. And just to address the OEM issue insurance companies will not pay for OEM parts for a car more that two or three years old in some states. I know this is the case in MA - this is because compliant parts can be had much less and these OEM parts are often made by the same supplier as the OEM part. These non OEM parts are also sometimes referred to a OEM equivalent.
Next, He got a price in NH on the 2013 MINI of $1,300 less than Burlington quoted.
Finely, the Burlington dealer seems to have done nothing to try and mend the relationship. As a long time sales professional of capital equipment I live by the two golden rules of selling.
Rule A: The customer is always right
Rule B: If the customer is wrong refer to rule A
Clearly the commercial establishment is the one responsible for maintaining the relationship for any high dollar item otherwise they will never reach their potential.
So, unless Gray Raven has some reason the doubt the integrity of vtmini38 I don't understand why he is attacking him.
Just my opinion.
The Burlington dealer offered a maximum of $9,500 net for a car that he sold easily for $13,500 while he estimated it was worth $14,000 - sounds close to me.
The MINI dealer quoted $1,000 on a repair that he was able to complete for $500. And just to address the OEM issue insurance companies will not pay for OEM parts for a car more that two or three years old in some states. I know this is the case in MA - this is because compliant parts can be had much less and these OEM parts are often made by the same supplier as the OEM part. These non OEM parts are also sometimes referred to a OEM equivalent.
Next, He got a price in NH on the 2013 MINI of $1,300 less than Burlington quoted.
Finely, the Burlington dealer seems to have done nothing to try and mend the relationship. As a long time sales professional of capital equipment I live by the two golden rules of selling.
Rule A: The customer is always right
Rule B: If the customer is wrong refer to rule A
Clearly the commercial establishment is the one responsible for maintaining the relationship for any high dollar item otherwise they will never reach their potential.
So, unless Gray Raven has some reason the doubt the integrity of vtmini38 I don't understand why he is attacking him.
Just my opinion.
I had no problem understanding vtmini38 and I don't see any reason to doubt or challenge his integrity as he was only trying to give other MINI fan a heads up after having a bad experience. The facts as presented are simple:
The Burlington dealer offered a maximum of $9,500 net for a car that he sold easily for $13,500 while he estimated it was worth $14,000 - sounds close to me..
The Burlington dealer offered a maximum of $9,500 net for a car that he sold easily for $13,500 while he estimated it was worth $14,000 - sounds close to me..
So it's your opinion ( based on your math) the dealer should have given him full retail price for a used MINI requiring repairs
Not gonna happen.Look, if they bought it for what he wanted, say $13,500, and for the sake of argument they had to put $2K or more into the car, which is pretty easy to reach when most older R53's are riding on non-runflat tires (runflats are not cheap).....Then next week you walk in and beat them down to $12,500 because afterall, "who pays sticker price right ?" Then where's is the profit from that ?
And sorry if it sounded that way, but challenging the OP is not the intent here. Merely pointing out a few facts and information about how it all works behind the scenes somewhat leveling the playing field. And while one may percieve a bad deal, could just be a difference between one dealership which crosses it's T's and dots their i's, and one that doesn't....
Either way I am glad the OP got a killer deal on a MINI and is happy with the sale. What IS disturbing is the service departments comments....
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Boxford, MA
So it's your opinion ( based on your math) the dealer should have given him full retail price for a used MINI requiring repairs Not gonna happen.
Look, if they bought it for what he wanted, say $13,500, and for the sake of argument they had to put $2K or more into the car, which is pretty easy to reach when most older R53's are riding on non-runflat tires (runflats are not cheap).....Then next week you walk in and beat them down to $12,500 because afterall, "who pays sticker price right ?" Then where's is the profit from that ?
And sorry if it sounded that way, but challenging the OP is not the intent here. Merely pointing out a few facts and information about how it all works behind the scenes somewhat leveling the playing field. And while one may percieve a bad deal, could just be a difference between one dealership which crosses it's T's and dots their i's, and one that doesn't....
Either way I am glad the OP got a killer deal on a MINI and is happy with the sale. What IS disturbing is the service departments comments....
Not gonna happen.Look, if they bought it for what he wanted, say $13,500, and for the sake of argument they had to put $2K or more into the car, which is pretty easy to reach when most older R53's are riding on non-runflat tires (runflats are not cheap).....Then next week you walk in and beat them down to $12,500 because afterall, "who pays sticker price right ?" Then where's is the profit from that ?
And sorry if it sounded that way, but challenging the OP is not the intent here. Merely pointing out a few facts and information about how it all works behind the scenes somewhat leveling the playing field. And while one may percieve a bad deal, could just be a difference between one dealership which crosses it's T's and dots their i's, and one that doesn't....
Either way I am glad the OP got a killer deal on a MINI and is happy with the sale. What IS disturbing is the service departments comments....
I have made a simple point and that is vtmini38 had done his homework and his numbers weren't far off the mark and the Burlington dealership was never competitive with other market options - at least in this case.
Just as importantly vtmini38 was willing to do the leg work to avoid spending an extra $5K or $6K plus any margin that the NH dealer made on the new car sale. It is very possible that you see the value the dealer would be providing for that money but obviously vtmini38 didn't and honestly it seems a little rich to me - remember this is VT where the cost of living is relatively low. vtmini38 both had the determination to do the leg work and the courtesy to share his experience with others.
I am not taking sides on the question of does a dealership add value and obviously they need to make a profit. I am however of the opinion that the Burlington dealership didn't handle this transaction well in any way shape or form - granted my opinion is based solely on this thread as I have no other data on the Burlington dealership.
I do however have a fair amount of experience with MINI of Peabody (or maybe Danvers - never sure which town) and they are fantastic and highly recommended so my expectations of MINI dealers in general are high - so maybe I am just being foolish - but I hope not.
Wow, why would anybody contribute to this blog, it seems pointless. Some people don't have good comprehension, or common sense. For the record, no one expects retail from a dealer. Some people might expect low trade value based on mileage and condition. I've learned today that not everyone expects a fair deal from a dealer. The MCS in question had brand new run-flats with less than 300 miles on them. That's beside the point. What is the point is why do some people act like fools when they don't know what they are talking about? Rhetorical, fool! I'm out. 
Let's just say for arguments sake you are being misunderstood. So your resolve to that situation is to call them stupid and a fool ?
Honestly, is this what happened in Burlington ?
And since you thought this was a "blog" explains a lot too. When you post up in a forum like this expect a response. The fact you posted up 16 "paragraphs" about the dealer who gave you a terrible experience and only 1-1/2 about the one who gave you the deal of the century says a lot too.
You have your opinion and I have mine.
I have made a simple point and that is vtmini38 had done his homework and his numbers weren't far off the mark and the Burlington dealership was never competitive with other market options - at least in this case.
Just as importantly vtmini38 was willing to do the leg work to avoid spending an extra $5K or $6K plus any margin that the NH dealer made on the new car sale. It is very possible that you see the value the dealer would be providing for that money but obviously vtmini38 didn't and honestly it seems a little rich to me - remember this is VT where the cost of living is relatively low. vtmini38 both had the determination to do the leg work and the courtesy to share his experience with others.
I am not taking sides on the question of does a dealership add value and obviously they need to make a profit. I am however of the opinion that the Burlington dealership didn't handle this transaction well in any way shape or form - granted my opinion is based solely on this thread as I have no other data on the Burlington dealership.
I do however have a fair amount of experience with MINI of Peabody (or maybe Danvers - never sure which town) and they are fantastic and highly recommended so my expectations of MINI dealers in general are high - so maybe I am just being foolish - but I hope not.
I have made a simple point and that is vtmini38 had done his homework and his numbers weren't far off the mark and the Burlington dealership was never competitive with other market options - at least in this case.
Just as importantly vtmini38 was willing to do the leg work to avoid spending an extra $5K or $6K plus any margin that the NH dealer made on the new car sale. It is very possible that you see the value the dealer would be providing for that money but obviously vtmini38 didn't and honestly it seems a little rich to me - remember this is VT where the cost of living is relatively low. vtmini38 both had the determination to do the leg work and the courtesy to share his experience with others.
I am not taking sides on the question of does a dealership add value and obviously they need to make a profit. I am however of the opinion that the Burlington dealership didn't handle this transaction well in any way shape or form - granted my opinion is based solely on this thread as I have no other data on the Burlington dealership.
I do however have a fair amount of experience with MINI of Peabody (or maybe Danvers - never sure which town) and they are fantastic and highly recommended so my expectations of MINI dealers in general are high - so maybe I am just being foolish - but I hope not.
But when I read stuff like "My MINI is in showroom condition" then few sentences later you read the car needs over $1K dollars in parts plus labor.....ya gotta ask.
Prices really are not that good up there as you state. I checked a few search engines for used 05's MCS's in that area....80 percent of them were hovering below $10K, with a few up to $12K. Only saw one over $15K but as you know, what one asks isn't necessarily what one gets.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Boxford, MA
I for one am glad someone on NAM has had a positive set of experiences with this dealer. As I had mentioned our dealer just north of Boston is very good as well and I think we would all hope the problem is not the dealer but rather just one or two individuals who don't exactly get the MINI culture or intended customer experience.
The issue here in my mind isn't all about the money but rather a failure to combine a positive customer experience with reasonable set of commercial terms. My sense is that both were missing from vtmini38's interactions - IMHO - as the only data I have to work with is the string of posts on this thread.
The issue here in my mind isn't all about the money but rather a failure to combine a positive customer experience with reasonable set of commercial terms. My sense is that both were missing from vtmini38's interactions - IMHO - as the only data I have to work with is the string of posts on this thread.
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