An LSD is a non-trivial amount of money, and definitely not worth pursuing if you don't also need to replace the clutch. If I still have the car when the clutch goes I'll consider it, but for the money I'd rather get a set of coilovers I think

 

Absolutely...not cheap. It was a great option before Mini dropped it. I wish I could have gotten it on my '12.

Coilovers are a great option too, but good ones cost too. An in between option would be a set of springs. A little lowering and a little stiffer does the car good. Some people say the ride improves with a spring change (not sure I understand that with constant rate springs, but that is what some people say). Do some research on here; there is a lot of good information to be had about these mods.

 

Uhh. LSD? Coilovers?
are we talking about drugs?

 

LSD - Limited Slip Differential
Yeah, I don't like jargon and vague acronyms either, but what are ya gonna do?!

Coilovers - Coil over strut.
The shocks and springs are assembled as a unit and the springs must also be replaced when the shock wears out.

Dave

 

I have looked into both, but the cost of new springs and struts is close enough to a coilover set that it isn't a huge deal. It's also more important to fix the suspension first than getting fancy and putting an LSD in

 

Oooops...sorry 'bout the jargon.
and getting off topic...but then again, that is one of the things to like about Minis is to mod them. There is something for everyone; change the looks, handling, perfomance, sound, etc.

 

With either route, look into camber plates. The fixed plate from Ireland Engineering is a modest price mod that is one of the best changes you can make next to the RSB (rear sway bar). Worth doing if you are doing springs or coilovers.

 

WTF? You're telling me my $30k car doesn't even have LSD? I thought I read that 2012 do come with it.

So my econobox Saturn had LSD...my brand new 'motoring' car doesn't? This winter is going to suck. :(

 

LSD is obsolete . most vehicles today have traction control. If I am not mistaken your MINI has traction control

 

All minis have them, I don't think you can buy one without it. Obviously you can turn it off, but I don't recall being able to buy it without it

 

You have the Sport Package, and DTC is part of that package. Having DTC means you have an electronic LSD... just like many BMWs, Porsches, etc.

 

Not the same.

 

You are thinking traction control and stability control. Both very useful, but neither are the same as mechanical or electronic limited slip differentials. MINI used to offer a mechanical LSD then later offer an electronic version called DTC.

I remember reading in the manual and it seems by default the DTC is NOT enabled (if equipred) unless you partially disable the stability control, like for a track event. I haven't had time to check or try it out but it's on my list to do with my JCW. If you happen to live in Canada, it appears you only get DTC with the JCW.

 

True, the eLSD is not "ON" until you press the DTC button. This "loosens" the parameters for the stability control kicking in and turns on the eLSD.

If you hold down the DTC button for a few seconds, it turns off all traction/stability control and leaves only the eLSD.

According to MINI, pressing the DTC button is beneficial in snow because it allows some 'slippage' before cutting power to the wheels, etc.

One notable advantage of the DTC over a "traditional" mechanical LSD is that most mechanical LSDs can only transfer a percentage of power away from the spinning wheel. In the case of MINIs now-unavailable LSD, it could transfer just 30% of engine power to the wheel with traction. The eLSD, however, can transfer as much as 100% of the power to the wheel that has traction.


DTC only comes STANDARD on the JCW, but from a quick look at MINI.ca, it's optional on other non-JCWs. The same goes for the US. DTC has been standard on JCWs since the release of the Factory JCW in '08 (Model Year 2009), but DTC wasn't available on the Cooper or Cooper S until December '08 builds.

 

That's good - when I put a deposit down this past summer, there was no mention about DTC/EDLC on non-JCWs in Canada for 2012. It seemed odd as it is really just a software feature that should not be limited to JCWs. I look forward to trying it out.

 

Exactly... It's purely software, IIRC. Mechanically, it just uses the sensors and mechanisms from the other existing systems (ASC, DSC, ABS, etc), which is probably why it costs only $250, now.

 

Guys, you're getting totally off topic of this thread! This thread is to post why you love your Mini and why you think Mini's are great. Too much mechanic talk going on!

but, having tried to read the past 10 posts, and as a last post before the tech talk ends, what's the purpose of an LSD, and does my 2012 have one, and will I be screwed this winter without one?

 

I currently drive an X5 diesel and it is awesome. But, the MINI I want to get is 'awesome-r'!!! The x5 diesel sells well and the 335d sells well with the eco-credit incentive. I got 3500 off the top immediately last year and eventually got about 10k off MSRP. If no incentive, I would not have bought it! I have some reservations about the diesel at first, but the truck is a great ride with plenty of power and really good gas mileage. I would hope BMW would offer all the diesels they make over here including MINI!

To the OP, sorry to further hijack this thread! from reading you recent posts, you and your car are starting to bond! Now, you need to name it!!!

 

I truly think MINI's are great and I don't even own one yet! I've been lucky enough to test drive and have one as a loaner while my X5 was being serviced. I just need about 6 more months to get out of being upside down in the X and I'll be ordering my new Clubman S!

LSD stands for limited slip differential and I am not sure if your car has it, but I really don't think you will have problems this winter without it. I am sure others will chime in here about this.

 

Because all-wheel drive is for wusses, you need a 2012 Mini Cooper. Making the most of FWD with light weight and electronics, the Coop offers an unbeatable fun factor guaranteed to brighten up an otherwise dreary day. Automatic Stability Control + Traction helps prevent wheel spin for lots of traction on start-up. Cornering Brake Control and Electronic Brake force Distribution manage braking balance between the front and rear axles, and Brake Assist enables maximum braking pressure to minimize braking distance. Standard Dynamic Stability Control intervenes in engine management when necessary and applies brake force to individual wheels (it also includes hill assist). Optional bi-xenon adaptable headlights, fast airbags, and a rigid chassis — who says bigger is better when it comes to winter driving?

 

You two are not the first to ask about Minis in the snow. There are many thread covering this subject and how great they are. There are even pictures posted of people in snow so deep they are plowing it.

My personal experience is from having run 2 Minis in Upstate NY since 2003 through the winters that we have and have no problems. The '04 that we have doesn't even have traction control and we run all season tires on all the cars. The '07 (with traction control, no LSD) has taken me skiing to places like Gore, Whiteface, Stowe and Jay Peak. I have driven home in 3-4" of salted mush at least once - with all season tires.

Here is another thing to love about Minis...they are great in the snow.

I am, however, looking forward to a new set of snow tires and the DTS on my new 2012.

BTW - I believe that the eLSD is on all of the time with DTC. Just checked my manual. There are 2 "off" settings. The first is to turn off the traction control. This allows you to spin the tires. There are occasions where this may be neccessary to do, like rocking the car if it is stuck in 11" of snow in a parking lot (been there). The second off setting turns off the both traction and dynamic stability control. It is likely that the only place that you might want to do this is on the track (race course) or autocross. In all cases the eLSD is on. The manual states "Intervensions (differenctial lock) in braking occure to improve propulsion when drive wheels are rotating unevenly, even when DSC is deactivated.".

 

With a regular differential, if one wheel spins it gets all the power from the engine. The wheel which actually has grip will get no power. With a limited slip diff, the wheel which still has grip will get some of the power even if the other wheel is still slipping. As stated above, with the old mechanical lSD (available on Ss up to 2009 I think), the non slipping wheel can get 30% of the engine power while the other wheel is slipping.

This can be useful in "spirited" driving, for me it only comes into play on the track. Ideally you want to get on the power as soon as you can while cornering, but while cornering the inside wheel is lightly loaded, so will tend to slip easily. With an LSD you can get more on the power earlier than with a traditional diff. Our Cooper-S has the mechanical LSD, I can get on the throttle early and still get power out of the corner. Our Cooper doesn't have an LSD and at the last track day got a distinct smell of burning rubber when I got on the power too early after turning off the DSC (and thus traction control).

I assume driving in snow has similar problems, but its not something I'm familiar with. Your 2012 doesn't have a mechanical LSD, they havn't fitted those since 2009, if you have the DTC option you'll have an electronic LSD. (Where the brake is applied to the wheel that slips to divert power to the other wheel.)

 

It's kind-of hard to say when eLSD is 'completely off' because in ANY mode, the car may apply the brakes to a spinning wheel.

That said, the difference between eLSD and the way it reacts to a spinning wheel is that it EXCLUSIVELY uses braking and will not cut engine power.

So, when in the "all on" mode (no buttons pressed), the car is going to use all means necessary (cut power and/or brake) to make sure that the wheels are not spinning faster than necessary for the given speed.

That means that if your tires NEED to spin some to get going and/or continue moving, as in low traction circumstances, you might not be going anywhere. That's the purpose of turning off systems or turning on the DTC.

Without intimate knowledge of the programming of the systems, there's no way we can say for sure how it all works, but my point is that the purpose of DTC / eLSD is that it transfers power to the wheel with more traction BUT allows some spinning/yaw/etc. So, if you leave all the systems on, meaning you want ZERO slippage or differential rotation rates, you're essentially defeating the purpose of the DTC / eLSD.


OK... here's why I love my MINI:

I went to a Porsche vs. BMW Auto-X event last week, and despite being totally stock, having crappy All-Season tires, and having just 118hp, I had the fastest time amongst the MINIs and a faster time than 10+ Porsches and numerous BMWs.



It has to be at least a little disappointing to lose to a 118hp MINI Cooper with All-Season tires when you're driving a Porsche Boxter, Cayman, or 911.

 

Blainestang, nice video. That looks like a lot of fun... way to represent the Justa

 

It's a blast! Absolutely a must-do for anyone with a MINI, IMO. This type of performance is really what sets the MINI apart from it's competitors. That and it's uniqueness/character.