Others should check my "facts" (and spelling), but here goes: (1) That's right; the ZF CVT couldn't take all that torque. (2) As far as I know all Gen1 Justa autos were CVTs. (3) I think for the '07 model year (start of Gen2/MKII), which started production in November '06. (4) I don't do convertibles, but I think Gen1 convertibles may have run from '05 through '08 (start late, run late). Gen2 convertibles started with the '09 model year. (5) Sorry, I don't even know what a Aisin gear shifter looks like, because we never even sat in a Gen2 Justa auto before buying our '06.

Something else you might ask about (so I can learn more as well) is the Gen1 versus Gen2 engines. The Gen 1 engine is a Tritec 1.6 (made in Brazil), while the Gen2 engine is a Prince 1.6. made closer to Oxford. From what I've read, the Prince is slightly better.

 

Jim, thanks. What I've gleaned about the engines is exactly the same as you stated, adding that the Prince engine uses the "direct gasoline injection" where the injectors spray the gas inside the combustion chambers (as diesel engines do) rather than inside the port right before the valve.
Thanks for your answers
1. makes complete sense.
2.still needing certainty (or clarity!)
3.see #2.
4. The Gen1 design did run thru '08 in convertibles but I don't know if that means that the CVT continued. The justa vert was equipped with the auto option thru '08(?) I've seen it mentioned many times that the CVT was '02~'05. Does that mean that the '06 coupe and the 'o6~'08 vert autos were Aisin? Or maybe the CVT was quietly still in use thru '08?
See #2

.5 I don't know either. I've driven S's with the Aisin but never driven a CVT justa. the photos show what looks like exactly the same shifter in an '06 MCS and an '02~'06 justa from what I can find. The minor difference I see is that the justa lacks paddles on the wheel. Not exactly conclusive.

 

This is why I need a clue...they all look the same to me!
The yellow convertible is an '07 base. Is it CVT?
Are there any telltales under the hood?

 

my 06MCS gave me verry little hassil up until january of this year when i sold it to get my business going.

Issues I Had:
06 built between august and December of 06 had clutch issues (manufacturing defect) replaced under warranty after 9k miles

last December i came out to my window cracked, puzzled me because it is garage kept and wasnt that way when i pulled it in. Replaced under warranty.

Those were the only two MAJOR issues i had, once the clutch got fixed the car did me well up until the day i sold it (27k miles) no issues and routine maintenance. I love Minis and i actually have a 11 clubman s on order,i miss the lifestyle and having fun in a car too much

To be honest, i would look into an 06 MCS. The superchargers are rock solid and the car is IMO the best year Mini has made. I also would suggest getting a manual, its easy to teach and a properly driven manual will last 100k+ miles.

Off topic i think being able to drive a manual car is a skill every body needs to learn, even if you never own one you should need to have an idea how to drive because you never know what situation you will be in.

Good luck! mini's are a blast to own and im sure what ever you decide your daughter will absolutely love!

 

Well. I'm going to be the voice of adulthood here and just come out and say it - you're buying the car for your daughter, not you.

She may like the MCS, but she sure doesn't need one to go to college, where she won't have enclosed safe parking and the car will get beat to hell. What she needs is reliable, safe transportation that gets good fuel mileage and she won't have Dad nearby to help if it doesn't start one morning and she needs to get to class.

Hence my suggestion to buy the newest, lowest mile Justa that will fit your budget, at $15-16K that should get you into a nicely equipped '07 or '08, with an automatic you can trust, if you choose.

However, for just a few more $$$ you can get her a new '10 in full warranty. what's that peace of mind worth to you? I know what I'd do if it were my daughter going off to school.......

When it's all said and done, she'll be more concerned with what color it is and whether it has a sunroof and an Ipod hookup that whether it's an S or not.

And I'm not disparaging your daughter here, it's just the reality of life for an 18 year old, their priorities are different - that's all.

One really good thing about the MINI - they are tough little cars in an accident - so you can really sleep well about that!

BTW, a Gen 2 Justa will get as much as 15mpg more than a Gen 1 S model....

One more thing to throw into the mix, you don't say where you live or where she'll be going to college, but is weather a factor? I find the 2nd gen cars to have a significantly improved A/C than the first. I owned an '03 JCW MCS and curently have an '09 MCS Clubby, both have been dead reliable.

Good luck with your decision!

 

Our '06 Justa auto hatchback doesn't have paddle shifters and I'm pretty sure it's a CVT. I'm less sure about when the off-schedule convertible switched over, but having paddles might identify an Aisin auto. There are probably thousands at NAM that know the answers.

Dave makes some good points about your, versus her, priorities. I also had to change my perspective and search criteria after my wife drove a '03 Justa auto and said she didn't want/need the S or the manual. What I wanted her to want and what she actually honed in on were different, but it was her money and her car. Of course, if you're buying the car for her, and expect to help with maintenance, you have a lot more leverage than I did.

The other part of Dave's comments that may add some balance in the discussion is the point about making a mature, rational decision. However, if we'd done that, my wife would probably have a Honda Fit (with paddles). I consider buying a MINI over more reliable and practical transportation more of an emotional than rational decision. We have four cars, only one of which was a predominately rational decision at the time of purchase. What we need and what we want are often not the same.

 

I'm a newb on this forum, but I gotta say MiniDave tooks the words nearly out of my mouth...

I recently bought an '06 MCS Convert, but last year sent my daughter off to college with a car. No way would I send her in an S at all, probably not in a newer one either. My experience is that teenagers don't value a car "given" to them - but hopefully your daughter is different.

My daughter wanted a Ford Taurus because of its crash ratings and such, little did I know that would be an omen of what was to come. Four very major accidents in 18 months, and her car now looks worse than the one I junked when I got my MCS...

I do think teaching her to drive a manual is a good thing, I finally got my daughter somewhat proficient in my Miata before it died an early death. If she didn't learn from me I was afraid she never would.

Rgds,
John B

 

MCS automatics are and always have been Aisin 6 speed autos. MCS has never had a CVT at all. Our '06 MCS Auto has been trouble free since new although it has just 26,000 miles.

 

You folks are great! I love the input and the first-hand experience!

I probably should add some detail to flesh out the picture; my daughter is 24 years old (yes...stilllllllll in college!) and married. Like most young couples they are struggling and I promised to keep her in a decent car 'til she graduates, then the car and the note and the insurance will all be hers. I got her a Saturn Vue Redline three years ago that had a lot of miles but looked new; a one-owner true cream puff. That Saturn Redline today looks damn-near mint at 140K so she takes really good care of the car. There's not even a scratch on the paint. These Vues have a Honda drivetrain (yes,really) so they're solid. The college is about 65 miles away and she is commuting to school and work, hence the miles. Given the high mileage I need to replace the Redline while there is still a chance to sell it (or before it hits 150 maybe) Her job is changing and she should be adding miles more slowly next year.
Manual trans: two reasons I've been aiming for an auto: 1. all the consumer driven complaints I've read have thoroughly bashed the CVT AND the manual trans and the clutch but the Aisin (based on the complaints I have NOT found) must be bullet-proof. 2. She can drive a manual but she is unsteady with it which practice can cure, but most importantly, she gets a bit flustered at times...such as heavy city traffic and consequently an auto isn't a bad idea. We are in Texas, so AC performance IS important. Its good to get that insight about the Gen2. I'm still looking of course, and the dealer in Dallas has a 2005 MC stick convert for $11 Its a first gen base and no CVT, so maybe it would be OK? 50K miles, no leather, pretty much no options, but it has cruise. They have 1.9 % versus my C.U. 's 3.9.
I did look at their new stuff online, but they start at 21K so that's out.

From all I've seen, it looks like the absolute MOST Bullet-proof Mini configuration would be a Base with the Aisin auto, in a coupe w/o the pano roof.
But I can't even prove that they have built a Base with the Aisin auto!?
It must be a Gen 2, eh?

 

And he just goes on, and on, and...


OK, more confusion. I understand that the justas sold with 'automatic's were CVTs. AND that the CVTs were dropped when Gen2 came out. But the convertible remained a Gen1 carry-over for '07 and '08, so what trans did these red-headed-stepchildren get?
I found and ad for an '07 HERE that states flat out that it has a CVT.

Then, to blur the picture even more, I find THIS advert for an '08 (still Gen1) that has PADDLES! The ad includes the original window sticker(!) which states the trans is a "Steptronic". OK, Folks! I need more help! Is this a new third choice, or is this the Aisin???

EDIT well, nevermind the Steptronic! I found the answer, it's just a gussied-up (as we say down here) CVT. so, the CVT was in fact sold from '02~thru '08 just to set that bit straight.

 

Got ya!

are you totally against leasing? when i ordered mine i asked my MA about the specials going on and you can get a very nicely equiped Justa for 199 a month! it would be under warranty, brand new and if she decides she really wanted to get the S shes not locked into Justa untill it dies.

And maybe by the end of the lease term they will be on there feet enough to either purchase what shes been driving or get another. also the plus side is you would get to order it or find a 10 on the lot that they are dumping.

I know my dealer is trying desperately to dump there 10 inventory (Bala Cynwood, Pennsylvania)

Just a thought and throwing it out there.

 

Hmmmmmm(?) Ya know... I don't know. My knee-jerk is heck no! I'll never lease! However, I started this thread set on an S and wavered and waffled to the justa-side. So I don't want to claim to be resolute on this or I might have to eat more crow...
So maybe I can get MORE car than I could have afforded before?

Now I just hafta call all the dealers 'til I find one with a GP! Yay-yuss!!









OK, I'm calming down.
Now, where were we? Leasing might actually work in this case, for the reasons you stated. A couple of issues come to mind, such as, could she keep the mileage under 15K/yr? During the lease, must all maintenance be done at the dealer? That would be a deal killer due to the distance.
I could probably get pretty much my choice at the MINI haus for say, 300/ month,eh? Lots of new angles to examine. I've never leased, so I don't really know the pitfalls and I assume there are plenty.

Btw, what is "my MA"? Mini assistant? I'll assume you're not referring to yer Mom.

 

MA = Motoring Advisor aka salesperson.
SA = Service Advisor (you'll run across that as well)

 

The lease could be a good idea for her.....

You can set the yearly mileage higher by paying a bit more per month, but it doesn't matter if she intends to buy it at lease end. Just be prepared to pay up for the miles if she doesn't buy it at lease termination....

My understanding is that the Aisin automatic was always used in the S model, and in all cars (except the upcoming Countryman) since Gen 2 cars - the exception being the Justa Convertible which didn't get it's Gen 2 configuration till 2009.

However, even tho it's the same transmission, the Justa does not have paddle shifters - it may be an option, but it's not standard like it is on an S,
so you can't use that feature to determine which transmission it has or what year it is.

The maintenance is paid for thru the first 3 yrs/36k part of the warranty period - which is 4 years/50K, but there's really not a lot to be done. Surely you could take it in once a year, and change the oil in between yourself? That's about all you'd need to do.

A new Justa will have the Aisin automatic, and I highly recommend it for her, especially if she gets flustered and will be driving in heavy traffic - just one more thing she doesn't have to think about while driving.

However, because the MINI is smaller, nimbler with significantly better handling and brakes, she may actually enjoy driving in traffic!

Another benefit for town driving - you can always find a place to park! Places that were difficult or impossible even for the Vue will be a piece of cake in a MINI!

Lastly, has she driven one yet? Seems like it really should be her idea if you want her to embrace it. Personally, I think she'd love it, but you never know....

To sum up: New Justa lease @ $199/mo or .9% financing, up to 40 mpg on hiway, all the new safety features, no repairs to pay for for 50K, Aisin auto trans, bulletproof.

Used car - always a crap shoot, but a 2007-2010 used would be a good choice for all the same reasons except lease availablility.

Used S - older, more miles, more complexity but more fun for those who would/could use it.

Last question: Are there children (or even a big dog) in the equation? If so, a Justa Clubman is the answer there!

 

Mini Dave pretty well summed it up.

I was NEVER one to lease a car, always purchased but i am putting my new clubman in the business name and leasing it. i am getting an s top of the line with every package imaginable minus the JCW for 346/month.

I plan on purchasing the car at the end of the lease term anyway so i am going with the 12k mile plan (average) mini off the bat offers 10k 12k and 15k plans and can customize it on the fly to accommodate higher millage.

No, you are not required to have mini do the maintenance but as dave pointed out it is covered for the first three years and even though you are doing your own I would recommend taking it in once a year to get looked at.

honestly, i think leasing is your best option, you get peace of mind, its brand new and you know how its going to be treated and a low monthly payment for this "trail" If she likes it she can buy it out at the end of the term and if she doesnt just pay the deposition fee at the end ($349)

Call your dealer or 866 ask mini for more information about the leasing.

 

I too am for the leasing idea. I leased my 2011, and the peace of mind alone is well worth any downsides you may think leasing has. I'm the type of person to have my mechanic on speed dial the minute I hear a noise I haven't heard before with my car. Since I've had my MINI for almost a month, I'm not paranoid at all, and can just relax and enjoy because I know it has the full maintenance plan (including brakes and rotors, which can be pretty costly) for the three year term, as well as all the warranty's a new car comes with. As someone else mentioned, they are having a really good $199/month special, which is the deal I received for a very well equipped 2011 justa cooper. It came with the cold weather package, panoramic sunroof, automatic transmission and bluetooth/ipod connectivity-and the monthly payments are still only $199/month. My motoring adviser bumped my yearly mileage up to 12,000 per year (I wouldn't have signed the papers with just 10k) at no extra cost to me. I did have to put $4k down, however, half of that came from my trade in. I'd definitely talk to your local MA, if you tell them the deal you're looking for, they'll be more willing to accommodate you. They want those 2011's out on the road!

*Sorry for the dreadfully long post! Just trying to help

 

i take it 1300 of it was the maintenance program? (brakes etc, things that are not covered in the basic maintenance program) because i am only having to put down 2700 on my 11 Clubman....

this might help a bit...
http://miniusa.com/#/learn/SpecialOffers-m

 

I went to Dallas BMW/MINI to look at the '05 Justa convert manual you mentioned and they showed only a red '06 in the convert manual. It has 50k miles and red interior trim. If that's the one you mentioned, it may have more options than you thought; cold weather package, sport package, 16" wheels (5-star, like ours), leather, and parking sensors.

 

I do remember seeing the $2,7XX down payment advertised, but when I was at the dealer talking to my MA, he informed me that with the taxes and registration fees, it would be $4k. You got me thinking, so I pulled out my lease agreement and it's broken down and itemized. There was also an almost $300 charge for tire tax or some b.s. like that in my state (NJ), i don't know if that's been the case for anyone else.

 

OMG

Im in NJ too, there is really 1300k worth of garbage they are taxing on? im purchasing my car over in Pennsylvania so maybe its different for the tire taxes....Im calling tomorrow and getting more info, i am not too impressed with MA anyway and this is a fairly big thing he over looked when we signed the order.

he said 27** down and thats it, i know i asked if that included all the fees and BS taxes and he said,correct. I suppose the joke is on me for assuming (you know what they say). Is your sales tax wrapped into your monthly payments or did you have to pay that up front? I know i researched that in NJ you can choose whether to pay it up front or over the life of your loan. how much was the extended warranty, or was that wrapped into your monthly payments? also,Where did you purchase your car? Thanks!

BTW: I still think leasing is MRsurely's best option.

 

Haha, I hope I'm not confusing anyone on here, I'm getting a bit confused myself. I'm only 20, so this was my first new car buying experience, so I don't have an extensive knowledge base. Initially, when I spoke with my MA, I went up to Prestige MINI in Mahwah, NJ (Bergen county)(great place, awesome sales ppl btw) I wanted all the details on the $199/month lease. My concern was making sure that my payments would stay at $199/month as advertised, and that the tax and all other b.s. wasn't incorporated into that. He explained that would be the case, but the down payment is gonna run up to $4k with all other fees. I'll break it down for you like it's broken down on my lease agreement.

Capitalized cost reduction: $2755.88 (advertised down payment?)
First Monthly Payment: $199.00
Initial registration fees: $227.50
NJ sales tax: $571.12
"NJ tire & rec/doc fee: $246.50
Total: $4,000.

This may be the case that you mentioned where I paid the entire sales tax in my down payment rather than in my monthly payments because I did express that I wanted a strict $199/month lease, no surprises. This seemed to work best for me because they gave me $2k for my old trade in, and I just put the other $2k down in cash.

 

Thank you for clarifying. I just got a hold of my MA by cellphone (shocked. I cant even get a hold of him when hes around the store) and explained that i have two options for sales tax, upfront payment and over time. He also explained to me that everything can be wrapped into the monthly payments over the course of the lease. (only works out to be 12-15 extra a month which I was expecting anyway)

in NJ the tire tax is 1.50 per new tire the rest is the actual title, license and fees which is correct. $227 in doc fees seems high but this is up to the dealer

Also, i have read and reread that the first months payment is included in the 27** down along with a 2** some odd dollar security deposit, so in reality your only paying like 22** down

Anyway, NJ,California & Massachusetts is the absolute worst three states to purchase and register a car in for fees and what not, i highly doubt the OP is going to be paying through the nose like we do.

Thanks for clarifying i was panicking because i wouldn't be able to get my family's Christmas gifts, and i dont think a ride in the new mini would suffice Because when it comes to Christmas gifts and my mini the mini would take priority lol.

Im 21 and have been through 4 new cars since my license at 17 (06 mcs was my first) the rest have have been business vehicles and have been through this process many many times, This is my first lease though, that why Panicked haha

 

Glad I could help, and glad you got everything clarified. I agree that NJ is def one of the worst states for new car buying because of all the fees involved. Good luck with the purchase though and I hope it all goes smoothly! Don't panic about anything, if you're anxious about something, tell your MA about your concerns. If they know you're looking to sign papers with their dealer, they're usually willing to help out any way they can. That was my experience with Prestige at least. Post the pictures once you get it

 

Okay you hi-jackers; what have you done with MrSurly?

 

Ha Ha!
I'm back! I spent yet another Saturday driving to Dallas and back. This time finally bore some fruit. After the fantastic advice and discussion in this thread, I finally bought a MINI!!
I actually followed most of the advice here(!) After looking at and driving a BUNCH of MINIs I found (at 7 PM) a Mellow Yellow 2008 JustaCooper automatic with several bells and most of the whistles and 50K miles, one-owner and a clean Carfax. Presented it as a surprise to my daughter and she freaked out with joy! She loves the color (and I thought she favored blue) and the Pano and the automatic, bluetooth, iPhone, auto AC, Leather, Sport Pkg,, bonnet stripes, the black roof, she's incredibly happy. Its much newer than she expected and she decided she didn't care about the 'S' business that much after all! The car seems very sweet indeed. I bought it without my usual flashlight-under-the-car body-cavity-exam and inspection. The brutal truth is that I was just worn out. The whole process just beats me down; weeks/months of research, hundreds of miles to test drive, you know the routine. By Saturday night I had already decided that if this deal didn't happen I was gonna walk away and start back on the project in the Spring. This deal worked and the people at Rockwall Ford did a fine job. I got what I believe to be a helluva deal, and that's what matters, right? It was way below NADA clean trade in.