Saw this on CNN

http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/26/autos/bmw_recall/

Will the recall apply to MINI soon?

I hope/assume BMW/MINI has fix this problem for 2011 MINI. Way to go for BMW to step up to this problem instead of just giving the extended warranty on these defective pumps.

 

Why? It tells you what it applies to in the article. MINI is not on the list.

 

A couple of months ago I got a letter from MINI describing the same issue. If your check engine light comes on, and/or you experience loss of power they said to take your car in.

 

It doesn't apply to Mini yet, however there have been a tremendous number of HPFP issues with Gen2 MINI's. The truly disturbing thing is that BMW hasn't found a solution - right now they are replacing them as a bandaid. There is nothing to prevent the replacement pumps from doing the same exact thing.

I myself had my pump replaced just a month ago, and I know several others who have had the same problem. BMW/MINI also sent out a letter acknowledging the issue with the pump and extending the warranty, just like they did with BMW owners.

We'll see what happens.

 

What is the outputon the r56 fuel pump? Because if mine fails aftermarket I go. Well warranty it then put the aftermarket one on.

 

MINI came out and publicly answered no. Sauce:
http://jalopnik.com/5673922/mini-own...yline=true&s=i

 

Our local BMW dealer did a tech session last year and one on the topics was excessive methanol in the fuel vs fuel pump failure. They said they have had several "tow-ins" with fuel pump failure, and when they had the fuel analyzed, often found 15-20% methanol. The message was that the 10% methanol that is supposed to be in the fuel is often much more than that.
Recently the EPA has authorized 15% methanol, so the problem will only get worse.

 

Your local BMW dealer is full of crap. This was the line some BMW techs were putting out way back in 2007, but no one gives that credibility any more. I'm about to be the former owner of a 2007 BMW 335i that is currently on the 4th HPFP, gone through fuel injector replacements, DME, software re-programming...the works. I've lived it real time since the beginning and have talked to numerous techs over the years who have felt my pain. Ethanol is controversial and a quick political target for some, so that's where they want to put the blame - but those of us that have watched our dealers trouble-shoot this honestly for several years started rolling our eyes at the bad gas theory 2.5 years ago. I know that you're just passing along one guy's opinion, but this is really old news and is really not credible. If you're really interested in the topic search HPFP over at bimmerfest.

 

NoHoR56: Believe it or not, the "bad gas" problem as BMW/MINI calls it is real. The "bad gas" is not actually "bad" at all, but a normal occurrence. It is true that the average ethanol content of fuel is in fact rising. A few years ago I myself purchased a gallon of gas from 5 different gas stations in the Kansas City area and tested them for ethanol content (this was a controlled experiment at a college.) At that time, the average content was 11% between the 5 samples. The samples ranged from 8%-14% ethanol content.

The fact that BMW/MINI is using this as a crutch to fall back on for a design flaw is disappointing. I am unaware of what manufacturer is making the pumps but I know that Bosch is well aware of the issue and has helped Ford through many of their troubles. The problem is real and yes ethanol, because of the even fewer lubricating properties than gasoline, will damage a high pressure pump that was not designed to use such a high ethanol content. The northern regions are even more effected by the ethanol because in the winter, the fuel formula is changed to make it easier to burn for the colder months. Those in areas where it is warm all season should not be effected as much as those in the northern regions.

Yes this is a problem, I do not care what technician tells you what. There is countless real data out there that shows that there is a normal cycle of fuel content through the year. Does this qualify it as bad gas? No, absolutely not. Should it be used as an excuse not to redesign? Hell no! But is the problem real? Absolutely.

 

The problem with the HPFP in the N54 engine is not ethanol. Yes, there is a lot of ethanol in gas and a lot of people in this country REALLY hate ethanol. I'm not disputing the northern region thing - easier to burn - whatever, but what you're saying was essentially the very first thing people were throwing out back in 2007. There is a lot more going on here than that. If I find some of the more nuanced engineering thinking into this I'll post it - because over at bimmerfest we've been hashing this out forever - but I can't bring myself to get into another argument about whether there was a second gunman in the grassy knoll or not.

 

I am honestly curious. There are many things that can cause a HPFP to fail. One of the more common causes currently is the changing fuel content. I am curious as to what the sources for the root cause of failure are and what is actually failing in the pumps. Typically some sort of fuel contamination is the cause for failure on HP pump systems when there are no problems with either the LPFP or the filtering systems.

Another common failure really has nothing to do with the mechanical pump itself but the controlling devices which are attached to them. Typically there is a pressure and volume control valve on a HPFP and they are usually "non-serviceable" by the vehicle manufacturer. That means that even though the pump may be very capable of producing the pressure and the flow required by the engine, the controlling devices that have failed will not allow it too and because they are "part of the pump" cannot be individually replaced resulting in a pump replacement.

I am very curious what you have found or been informed of which is causing the pumps to fail. I am also curious as to who informed you of these causes. I am not trying to start any argument I can assure you. Without having all the details of the failure, I cannot point at any one root cause for failure. If you would like to PM me the information to avoid any outside conflict, I would also appreciate that. I am not scared of reading

 

I don't have any answers for you - and neither does anyone else. There's just a lot of speculation. To tell you the truth the last thing I want to do after making the move to MINI is to keep talking about this issue, but I'll steer you to some places where you can see what's going on at the BMW forums. What I do know, from my own experience, is that this is not just about the pump. Multiple parts of the fuel delivery system are involved. The reason I reacted negatively to your comment about Ethanol was that it was the first thing some BMW service people put out there to make it seem like it was the user's fault: You bought bad gas. Or, larger, it's the gas you distribute in America. Well, BMW has been engineering cars for North America for a long time. They know the Ethanol content and should be able to make a part that works with it. It's not a surprise to them. But those were the first things we heard when the pumps started failing. But it quickly became clear it was a bigger problem than that and you stopped hearing that from the service people who were replacing more and more pumps. My first pump failed at 100 miles so the Ethanol thing just never rang true to me from the beginning, although I will acknowledge is may be part of it. I also think the first pump replacements created additional problems with fuel injectors etc. since they may not have been properly engineered to work with the other parts of the system. The latest pumps seem to we working - in conjunction with software changes.

Here are some links to threads over at www.bimmerfest.com. You can get a sense of what people are saying - what they know and what they don't know. All I'm saying to you is that - after reading and hearing this stuff for three years - I know that the answer is not as simple as: It's Ethanol's fault.

Official HPFP thread

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=430408


Recall thread

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=494305

 

Thank you NoHoR56. I understand the bantering that can occur from such conversations. I completely agree with your statement. There are a number of things that go into a failure. While it is true that one thing typically is what we call the root cause from a technical standpoint, it can be extremely difficult to narrow down that initial cause. Many times the true cause may not be found but a solution to the problem involving the symptoms of the cause may resolve the issue.

What you said about the pump not being the only issue is also likely correct due to the fact that many times the pump failures lead to many other failures as well as many other failures can lead to the pump failing. It is an endless battle to find the failure modes that are present.

Thank you for sharing this information. I will be reading to see what I can find out of it.

 

Well I am glad to have come to the forms about the fuel pumps. My engine light came on and I took it to the MINI Dealership on Monday. They still have it. I really do not understand anything about cars, but they say my car corrected what was wrong as far as the engine light. But they can't make it missfire?? Anyway they have uploaded all the software to New Jersey and they will make the decision as too whether I need a new fuel pump or new software. I have had this 2009 MINICooperS for just one year. I have had 3 water pumps put on now the fuel pump. My 2006 had no problems at all. So sounds like from the forum there are problems in the manufacturing of the car? At least I have a loaner, but I want my Mrs. Peel back!! lol

 

I had a waterpump fail on my '09 too. Yours is the first I've seen mention it.

 

My son-n-law in Florida has a 2009 MCS also and his water pump went about the same time as mine. Hope he doesn't have the problem with the fuel pump too.