Isn't there a rival TV? You should've talked to them...

The worst part is to claim child services where evolved. Shameful.

 

A nice neat OPP escort would cost $250-350 per hour (min 4 hours)
There goes the charity money

 

That's weird, we escort 300 corvettes out of town with city police and hipo's onto the interstate and no one ever charges us...


As you can imagine, we have our share of speeders in the group, but it's well known- keep it at 83mph in the 75 zones and no one gets ticketed, go faster and the planes above will find you.

 

I suppose obeying the speed limit was not an option?

And people wonder why I hate Mini events.

 

I was on my way to this ride, but got the flat tire going to a meeting place. After seeing what happened, I felt lucky with the bill for new rubber (only) and not the ticket and hassle of future court date (more time lost...).

But I am sad I missed the meet. I heard it was a blast (as always)...

 

Alright...

I was involved in this.. and yes were speeding, but we were going with the flow of traffic. We were still getting passed by several cars as were driving up to our 2nd meet point.

They said that they got us by plane, doing 123km in a 90km zone. Neither myself or any of the convoy members ever remember seeing our speedos go above 120 on this leg of the drive.

I myself, living in the area, can't say that I have ever gone over 120 on this stretch of road, since the OPP HQ is right there... literally, right where they pulled us over.

I do believe that we were centered out for "effect", the news report was questionable, as if you listened closely, they started to talk about the previous day's ticket, but still showing us getting pulled over, this is where the confusion lies in people thinking it was the MINI's doing 50 over.

(50 km over the posted limit in Ontario, is an automatic roadside license suspension, vehicle impoundments for 7 days, and up to $10,000 in fines) None of us were going that fast, none of us lost our vehicles that day.

We were pulled over, in our opinions, in a very dangerous manner. The news station has since removed the video, for "technical reasons".

We are in contact with them, newspapers, and trying to speak with the OPP as well.

As much as we may be giving the police too much credit on this, since our route went through 3 different detachments, it would have had to have been a highly organized sting! But it is highly coincidental.

Having an OPP at the meet point, saying that only him and his sergeant were on the road, then seeing an additional 2 vehicles on our way, having one of them (OPP golden helmet bike cop) tail us for a ways. Then having that many waiting for us at in Orillia.

Having 1 on Muskoka Rd. 13, one on 169 to Gravenhurst, and then having 3 passes of the parking lot at our lunch stop. One member who drove the route in reverse on the way home, reported an additional 5 cruisers on #13.

Our traffic court is probably a little different then some of what I am reading from the USA posts.

I am fighting the ticket, as I truly do not believe that we were going that fast. There is some degree of error in having it read by plane. Since they use a stopwatch, pen and paper to calculate it. It was overcast that day, not sure what the ceiling was that day.

It was only one leg of our convoy that was pulled over, and the odd thing is that the 1,2,7 cars were the ones ticketed. How they came up with those, technically speaking it should have been ALL of us then. I can see picking on the leader, and myself and the 2 car switched now and then in leading.

 

I hate to play the devil's advocate but I have to disagree....


While I think it could have been handled better, IF they were speeding, then they were speeding....plain and simple. As Xiek stated, only they know the truth.

And if they were speeding, though it was a bit tactless, speeding is speeding.

I don't know why people get upset when they get a ticket... if you're speeding and get a ticket, get over it... it is what it is.

I think the tv station's reporting was completely inappropriate and gave both the cops and mini driver's a bad rep.


Mark

 

I hate to quote myself, but this is something that I posted in a different thread, and I feel it is appropriate here. "Speeding is speeding," "get over it"? No, I don't think so.

There are all kinds of arguments concerning speed limits and enforcement (many of them found here). Essentially this is what it all boils down to:

"Do speed limits matter? Yes they do. Today they generate millions of pointless traffic tickets and billions of dollars of undeserved insurance surcharges (and billions for the ticketing jurisdictions), disrupt traffic flow, increase congestion, and have created a siege mentality among those who frequently use our public highways.

It doesn't have to be this way. We can have rational traffic regulation, including appropriate speed limits, that will expedite traffic, improve safety, and focus enforcement efforts toward those motorists who clearly drive in a reckless or discourteous manner. All we have to do is demand that it be done." From the July/August 1995 NMA NEWS.

Note: I added the part about billions for ticketing jurisdictions, because it is true and is probably the main reason for such rabid enforcement, not our safety, as claimed by them. Just do a search on "artificially low speed limits" and read up.

 

Will,

Being an avid speeder, I COMPLETELY agree about what you're saying but all your evidence as to what you're saying is nothing more than a logical arguement for why following speed limits can be wrong/dangerous. (which I completely agree with)

However, until that arguement has overturned a law, you can argue logic all day long, it doesn't matter, the law is what the law is and the cops are legally allowed to enforce it.

It doesn't matter if it's right, wrong or indifferent, the bottom line the law says that you can only run a certain speed and if you are caught going even 1 mph over it, you can get a ticket.

Is it fair? Hell no.

Is it logical? Hell no.

What we personally think (no matter how right or wrong we are) is completely irrelevant, the police are allowed to give a ticket for speeding and they did. I don't know why so many people are getting defensive about it.

Personally, I think it's completely stupid they got a ticket, I think the ticket was unfair, I think the way it was conducted was ridiculous, I think the whole thing was stupid.

However, "my opinion" as does anyone else's doesn't matter.

If I'm wrong, they'll all get out of the tickets and get an apology.

I doubt that is going to happen.


Mark

 

Well said Mark. Just like so many other things in our lives/government, it won't change until "We The People" utilize the PROPER ways to change things.

 

I think that as a precautionary, not to mention retaliatory move, every organzied run for a year or so should be done at the slowest possible legal speed, with precautionary OPP signs in the windows, and when other drivers on the route beyotch about it, site the Ontario incident. 'We do not wanna get pulled over!' Effers.

 

There was an incident in Houston a few years ago where the Houston police attempted to stop street racing on one of their main streets(Westheimer) by arresting people for trespassing while they were sitting in parking lots along the roadway as well as hyper enforcement of traffic and curfew laws. This backfired on the police bigtime. We, in the US, pride ourselves in living in a free society where the government is there to protect our rights and freedoms. We know the public roadways are government domain but they are one of the only ways to move from private property to other private property. Even though L.E.O.s can enforce laws from just their mere presence to full arrest, confiscation of property and fines but should they in all cases? It is a judgement call to the individual officer, officer's supervisors and/or the government powers. This is a continuing battle between freedom of movement and strict interpretation of the law-government's law enformcement.

 

I think entrapment is illegal, and to me, that's what happened here. If this had happened in the states, I don't know that it would stand. I don't know canadian law though...

 

Billy,

Just out of curiousity, how do you figure that is "entrapment"? The police didn't persuade, trick or coerce them into running over the speed limit.

That would be like saying a cop hiding behind a billboard running radar is entrapment. If you're going over the speed limit, it doesn't matter if the cop is hiding or not, they have the right to give you a ticket.

Like I said, I'm playing the devil's advocate. I personally hate "speed traps, unmarked cars, etc, etc".

But no matter what any of our opinions are, the bottom line is the speed limit is "X", if you are "X" plus 1, you can get a ticket.... reasonable or not.

Like Craig (cmcveay) said, until "we the people" change the laws, the laws stand as they are. (as sucky as they are)


Mark

 

I just think by telling them that there were no more patrols on the route, they were essentially baiting them into it.

They were speeding - no doubt about it. But if other cars were zipping by and only they were pulled over something isn't right about that. Maybe it's not entrapment, but I would think that by blatantly lying to the mini drivers was certainly low. I for one don't think law enforcement should be held to different standards and be allowed to lie or deceive people in the hopes of catching them in the act of some crime.

All that said, again, if there were people zipping past them, the cops should have been pulling those people over also. But instead, they pulled over the cars they had targeted all along. Calling media outlets was just the icing on the cake.

 

I agree, we were doing over the limit, and I admit that. I accept that, yes it sucks we got a ticket. There may have been a bit of unfairness about it, but that is life as well.

I don't think it was "entrapment" as more of baiting a trap, and we took the bait.

 

LOL. You left out a few major items in this incident. A local elected official was riding the lead police cruiser, and a local TV station was secretly invited to record it live. The other uninvited TV & print media turned on the set up, and the next morning the $h!$ hit the fan. The politician ducked for cover, denying any involvement and subsequently lost the next election. The Sgt in-charge of the operation was suspended. There were lawyers lining up offering free legal services to the ticketed victims hoping in return for free publicity. At the courthouse, the judge threw out every citation. Houston had a big black eye.

 

Well this has got me doubly watching for police on the highways and roads now.

 

I love how NO ONE involved will man-up and admit they were wrong in speeding.

If you got nailed for speeding, and you knew you were speeding, pay the fine, STFU, and deal. You probably got away with speeding a thousand times before you got caught this time.

You get that many cars of the same type together, you WILL attract attention. From everyone. ESPECIALLY THE COPS. Anyone who doesn't know this, needs to stay out of car events.

 

Hey Gromit - how about you check a few posts above yours? Xiek manned up...

 

Expect the comment about unfairness. Sort of a "qualified" man-up.

 

I don't think you get the point here.

Speeding is speeding and everybody manned up. NO ONE is denying that.

What we, most of us, do find crazy, is that cops called the news station beforehand to film the damn thing, and then called the child service (according to the article)

And are we saying it's an unjustifiable move on cops side and they should be punished?
No.

What we are saying is, that was a ***** move and it wasn't cool.

Read the article more carefully and peoples responses before you shouting STFU and chiming in.

 

*Did* they actually call child services? If so, I'd be calling an attorney.

The speeding - whatever, I agree. You speed, you get caught, it happens, you pay your fine and life goes on. I had 2 tickets myself last summer

But to involve child services in a mere traffic stop for speeding is outrageous.

 

If I understood the televised report correctly, child services is called if a driver is cited for 50+ over the speed limit. Probably considered child endangerment or something. As others have noted, the news coverage via the editing that was done, on first glance gave the impression that child services was called in response to some of the crazy MINI drivers. But that was not the case.

 

We're all on the same page... it's done no matter unfair.

Like I said before, I tend to be on the aggressive side anyways...

Duly noted by my last high performance award of 102 in a 60.

Cop was nice though, reduced it to a 69 in a 60.


Mark