Eager to know what would happen between a R56 JCW (155kw flywheel) against a R53 with similar power (also at flywheel) ?

 

Like off the line? or what?

 

it would be a drivers race if they put the same power down... its basically the same car... slight differences.

 

Yes off straight line (stretch). Wouldnt the JCW Take it? Against an R53 with no LSD, no shorten gearbox.

 

I would smoke it with my R53, but who would really care.

 

Lets stick to the topic

 

If the jcw does have shorter gears then in a straight line my money is on the R53. Shorter gears = more shifting thus being slower in a straight line.

some sort of example would be the new sti and the new wrx in a drag race. Some people have run faster times in the quarter with a stock 09 wrx than a stoxk 09 sti. Why you ask? Because the 5 speed is better for the quarter than the 6 speed.

This cars arnt drag cars soooo if you threw the jcw and the R53 on the road course or auto x my money is on the JCW.
If you are talking 0-60 I still believe it is a drivers race sided more towards the JCW because of gearing. Top end I give it to the R53.

 

Oh, and what a topic it is..........

 

well since r53s are just simply cooler thats like an extra 30 hp so its not possible to ever have the same horsepower between the two. duh

 

Wouldn't the decreased weight and increased torque of the R56 give it the edge?

 

the decreased weight i could see it playing a role.. what is the weight difference tho?

secondly this is assumeing that the power is the same i would assume the torque would be the same too.. but yes the R56 tourque curve comes on sooner than the R53 so that would def make a change in the out come out this said race.

 

The power is NOT the same. HP is approx the same, but the trq is a totally different story. 1750-4500rpm the trq is peaked on an R56 JCW @ 200lbs. An R53 JCW doesn't even REACH peak trq till after that @ 4600, and it's 184lbs worth.

I can see this being a huge advantage on a road course when coming out of a corner with less shifting involved using the torque.

But that's just bench racing... let the cars do the talkin'.

 

Here are some graphs i found in two seconds to help show the point. Yes you are right the TQ comes on sooner with the r56. But in these graphs dont look at the power look at where the curves are in the RPM band. The R56 has more torque down low whihc would help in the begining... but lets say the senerio is a drag race like stated above. once you hit redline in 1st the HP curve is about the same between the two cars... so a roll race i give it a drivers race... drag race too but more favor for the JCW..

basically JCW seems to be the better powerband in general...

but i would think that there are similar HP cars between teh R53 and the R56 that would be interesting to see.

09 R56
http://www.dragtimes.com/2009-Mini-C...phs-18914.html

R53
http://www.altaperformance.com/produ...Combo-Pack-R53


i agree... enough paper racing lets see some people duke it out.


EDIT: according to these graphs peak torque is way before 4600 on the R53...

 

actually according to the chart it's a "stock R53 with 15% pully" so the torque would be different.

 

ok yes i know... but in order to get a R53 to the same aprox hp as the JCW it would need mods thus changing the tourque curve.

what i was showing is that the TQ comes on sooner than 4600 and i was also showing that the JCW has the advantage of the TQ coming on sooner.

the discussion is about the R56 and the R53 having the same power to the flywheel. thus one of them needing mods to get to that point.

basically what would be in play here is the loss of power though the gear box, gearing in general, weight of the car, how the power comes on, and driver error. and the type of racing going on...

basically i am just rambling on about a VERY open ended question that can never be properly responded to. soooo since i will be owning a R53 i say that wins haha

 

AGREED (and for the same non-sensical reason)

 

Geez... now yer all gonna make me dyno my JCW before I mod it this weekend!

 

YES!!! do it!!! I am getting my 06 MCS on the 31st and i plan on dynoing it stock and with mods... we can compare and really put the thread to good use lol

 

Here's my predicament... heading home tomorrow, won't get there till the earliest 6:30, MINI meet at 8, mod all night through sat, MINI dealership Halloween party Sat. night, lol. Goodness!

EDIT: Just called my dyno guy... if I can get out of here early enough, I can get it dyno'ed tomorrow. So let's hope I do!

 

The added torque down low defiantly helps the R56.

I played around with my buddies stock JCW versus my 260whp/190wtq R53. It was a game of cat and mouse. The R56 pulls strong off the line and the R53 plays a game of catch-up and rev it out to the redline.

The powerband difference makes the drive experience very different. Around town I would totally take the R56 JCW power curve over my peaky R53. At the track I would not like the puke and die top end of the R56 though. I'm sure the aftermarket will fix that though. A different turbo for sure.

Cliffnotes... if you have a mild tuned R53... watch out for those JCW R56's... Torque wins races

 

i sure hope you do i am eager to see it and the improvement. a buddy of mine wants an 09 JCW.

what exactly do you have done? like i said above my buddy wants a JCW and i want to be able to mess around with him i love when it comes down to driver races.

 

Well... just means you gotta shift sooner on the track. Revs don't make a motor last longer.

You can come into a corner in a gear, and not have to downshift pulling out, saving time from downshifting, and upshifting once out of the corner. That's my method of thinking anyway. That's just one of the few reasons the Audi TDI wins Le Mans races, more torque, less shifting.

 

So the verdict is

Off standing start, R53 Wont stand a chance, possibly catch up if the stretch is long enough

but off rolling start, its all down to the drivers, as from 4k rpm and above the R53 is at its peak torque.

Am i correct in saying this?

P.S i checked the weight of both cars, R56 JCW is 10kg heavier than R53

 

standing start would still be drivers race as the tourque curve isnt crazy different. but if you stuck an excellent driver in the R53 and a poor driver in the R56... it would be close. if the poor driver was in the R53 then its done for.

a roll race in higher rpms it would be drivers race or up to the tune. if the turbo falls off up top then the supercahrged R53 which pulls to redline would win.

Roll race is about horse power... standing start or low speeds is about tourque. HP is a calculation of tourque really.

the clubman prob weighs even more than the normal JCW too. i think they used more rigid suspension pieces in the 09's? correct me if i am wrong?

 

Mental's mods

ARP Head Bolts
Bosch 550cc Injectors
M7 Tuning 16% Supercharger Pulley
MegaMini #1 Camshaft
MegaMini Stage 3a Head
Mynes Performance Stainless Steel Stepped Header with Catalytic
Mynes Performance Custom Tune