Help! I am trying to figure out the difference between DSC and the new DTC. The Mini site didn't seem to be real specific, at least for a novice like me. I went searching on internet, but the only thing I came with was Wikipedia, which said that BMW calls it DTC, but it is the same as DSC term used by other vendors. My dealer in Chicago says they are pretty much the same, but I find it hard to believe that Mini would market something as being an new feature if they are the same.

Also, I think I know what LSD does for me, but an explanation in English would help.

Would the DTC and LSD be helpful in the wintery/snowy Chicago climate?

Thanks all.

 

I'm prolly wrong but I'm pretty sure DSC and DTC are the same. as for LSD i think it stands for Limited slip differential

Edit

And now idea about the snow, born in Ohio but grew up and learned to drive in FLorida

 

But if you go to build a new Mini it shows DTC as a new option available for 2009, models after December, and DSC as a standard feature.

As for Limited Slip Differential, I kind of remember what that did on my dad's old Oldsmobile back in the 70's, but is it different today?

 

I'm not really up to speed on the new DTC, but from what I have heard it is a more sophisticated form of DSC, maybe someone will help us both out with an explanation.

We have LSD on our Clubman S, and I feel it is a must with any S. Without LSD, power goes to the drive wheel with the most traction, which causes torque steer, in other words, the car will "pull" in that direction. LSD puts power to both drive wheels, almost instantly, so there is no torque steer. I find this important with a S, not so much in a non S, as there is less power involved.

I hope I have this right.

Mark

 

DTC is supposed to be better in the snow because is keeps power to the wheels for a little longer when they start slipping. The DTC option also includes an electronic differential lock feature. AFAIK, the mechanical LSD option is only available on the S model now.

 

Mini web site had something on this. . . I think they said. . .

if DSC is on the system will take over at the slightest hint of instability.

with DSC off DTC takes over and improves traction on slick surfaces and provides a more spirited drive.

and with DSC and DTC off ELDC kicks in for highly skilled driving where the driver is almost in complete control.

So adding the optional limited slip to the "S" does what and is it necessary or even helpful if you are not racing your car?

 

For my wife and I, we really notice the torque steer in a S, that does not have LSD. You don't have to get on the throttle all that hard, and the car will pull to one side or the other. This is more of an issue in slippery conditions. Also, in deep snow, you need to turn off any form of traction control, as you need to spin the tires to dig down to get traction, and with LSD, your pulling with 2 wheels, not just one.

Mark

 

If I purchase a Mini with the standard DSC, can it be turned off?

It would seem to maybe make sense to just go with the standard DSC and add on the mechanical LSD and just forget about the DTC. It seems like DTC is like wearing a safety harness. It gives you a little more of a driving experience, but keeps you from killing yourself. I am very happy to deal with the DSC, but would like to be able to turn it off and also like the idea of mechanical LSD option in my snowy climate of Chicago.

 

Yep, the DSC goes off with the push of a button (the button closest to the passenger at the base of the gear shift on the manual model). It is on by default, so you have to actively turn it off.

 

You have this backwards. With an open diff (one without LSD) the wheel with the least traction gets the power. Try this experiment, put one wheel on ice & one on pavement. Now let out the clutch. What happened? Your wheel on the ice spins & you go nowhere. If it was the other way around there would be no need for a LSD.

 

I also had it backwards, but it is a backwards working system. A regular drive system puts power to the drive wheel that "slips", I guess hoping it gets traction, then power goes to the other wheel, again I guess slowly trying to even out the drive between the drive wheels. LSD, Limited Slip Differential, limits the "slip" or spin of the drive wheel with less traction, and both wheels drive the vehicle. Kind of like "Posi-traction" back in the day.

Mark

 

That may be true if the car has the DTC nanny.

What I was referring to was a regular open diff with no traction nanny's.

Man Mark you sure eat a lot of popcorn.

 

Sorry, but I guess I'm still a little confused here. I'm about to order an 09 S (I only change options every day). I live in CT where we have snow and particularly live up a very steep driveway on a 90 degree turn off a somewhat steep private road. My concern is getting the best traction up those first 20 feet of my driveway (without getting a real running start).
From what I read or think I read, DTC will help as should LSD. My current car which is coming off lease and the MINI will replace is a BMW 330xi (awd). I get the best traction by pressing the DTC button to turn it off leaving all the rest of the alphabet on.
My sales person says that DTC won't help at all in snow or loose conditions and that it only helps with very agressive driving. Is he correct? Will it help at all? I don't mind spending the $500 if it will help but is seems as if I keep adding options and $$ and am getting to more that I want to spend.

Thanks,

 

I'm still confused by the DTC thing, but MINI seem to think it'll help on snow. The 09 manual is now available on the OL, and I had a peek. It says about DTC:

The sounds pretty different from what he website says, which is about performance driving. (And they could do with an English speaking manual writer.)

 

My understanding of DTC is this:

The standard DSC can be turned on or off which turns both the traction control AND stability control off at the same time. This is the only option you have, and when off, there is no brake regulated differential lock from the traction control system which also has a strong intervention of the throttle. In the snow, with the DSC off, all systems are down, you may still slide because stability control is off and you're at the mercy of the differential spinning the wheel with the least traction.

DTC allows you to turn the traction control off and leave the stability control on with the Electronic Differential Lock feature on as well, just no throttle intervention. It also allows you to turn both traction control and stability control features off just as in the DSC system, however in the DTC system, with both traction control and stability control systems off, the DTC system will still regulate drive torque, left & right, through selectively activating the front brakes utilizing the Electronic Locking Differential with no throttle intervention as in the full traction control setting.

The DTC system may benefit those who like to drive really aggressively with the traction control and stability systems off, yet still like the feature of an LSD. This feature may also benefit those who select the automatic transmission, as the mechanical LSD is not available on those models. As for people who live in the snow, this also may be a benefit because you still get the activation of the EDL with NO throttle intervention AND you get to keep the stability control on to prevent sliding.

I think I just confused myself, but I am pretty sure that is how it works.
For those who are not familiar, the Electronic Differential Lock will brake the spinning wheel which will force the transfer of torque in the differential to the wheel with the most traction and will regulate it left to right to equalize traction. A normal LSD does this mechanically in the differential with no brake interaction.

 

I'm really waiting for reports from people who actually have it in their MINI to tell us what it really does.

 

MINIDean, I think you have pretty much nailed the description of what DTC is & does.

For $500 I'd rather have a set of real winter tires. Better yet LSD & winter tires. I see DTC as having the potential to toast ones brakes but good.

 

Mine being one of, if not the first Cooper built with DTC, I've been doing some "testing" to try and figure out the real-life differences between the 3 "settings" on a DTC equipped car, so that I can report back to others considering the item:

All systems ON
DTC ON
All systems "off" except EDLC

What I'd *really* like to do is do a couple auto-x runs on each setting to get a feel for how each reacts and the differences between each "setting", but that hasn't happened, yet, so the opportunities to have any of the systems really "kick in" are a little hard to come by on the street.

 

Don't mean to nit-pick, but the 2009 JCWs come standard with DTC from the start. Found this on a search on the JCW forum (probably more details there in other threads too): https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...al-system.html

 

I look forward to the full report.

 

No problem... Maybe I should have been more clear. When I said "Cooper", I meant specifically the Cooper, not the Cooper S or the JCW.

That being said, even with the JCW car having the system for a while, there are still a couple reasons why I'd like to do some testing myself:

1. There is still a GREAT lack of understanding as far as what DTC offers. As that thread demonstrates, there are many different descriptions of what each "setting" does and doesn't do... and what it's uses are. For the system in general, I'd like to come to some sort of concensus with other DTC owners as to how each "setting" works.

2. Despite all the similarities, dynamically, there will be some differences in the way the system operates on a Cooper as opposed to a JCW or Cooper S. For instance, given the lesser power output, how valuable is this system REALLY on the Cooper? Does it take incredible circumstance for it to kick in? Does it result in considerable benefit on an auto-X track? Certainly it would for a JCW that would be roasting the inside tire all the way around the track, but how about the Cooper?

So, basically, the general differences between settings and the specific usefulness with regard to the Cooper.


I look forward to the testing

 

sorry to bump such and old thread, but it seemed like the most relevant place to ask how to turn off DTC all-together. when i press the DTC button on my 09 cooper S, a message appears that says "DTC activated, DSC limited", but I can't find any option for turning it off completely.

thanks

 

Hold the button for 3 seconds

 

i do not recommend driving without dtc. it was fun through corners, but off the line, the torque steer was ridiculous.

 

Having my 08 Mini Coop S with DSC and it being replaced by an 09 with DTC feel as though I might be able to enlighten a few on the subject. Its NIGHT and DAY as far as the RIDES and PERFORMANCE of both. The 08 with the DSC is an Extremely Aggressive Tight Cornering Vehicle as opposed to the 09 with DTC. The difference is about 10-15 MPHs on curves....For instance....I had been able to take a 45 MPH curve at 90-100 MPH on my 08 with DSC, and you should see the expressions on peoples faces, including cops giving me the thumbs up lol.....as where the 09 with DTC does it about 80 MPH. However, the ride of 09 is quite a bit more comfortable...it is not as Stiff as the 08....Trust Me....BIG Difference! The 09 with DTC Absorbs the Road Far More Superior to the 08 with DSC! I live upstate New York and as far as the Snow and Cold Conditions....If Youre a True Northeasterner....Then You know how to drive in the Snow and Ice regardless. It depends on what you want and dont let the salesman tell you Any differently....the DSC is a really Tight Stiff Ride....as where the DTC is Still Tight, BUT Absorbs the Road quite a bit better. Lets put it this way...I Will Always have a Cooper S in My Family for as long as I am around! I have driven 3-Series BMWs, Merecedes Benzs, and Lexus....the Mini Cooper S Blows them All to Hell....and Everyone who comes across me in a Mustang...HATES Me lol. So again....depends on what you want!