Californians... electric MINI...
Um...
Matt
Coordinator :: Eastern Iowa MINIs
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,520
Likes: 4
From: Decorah, IA
My invite just hit my email inbox...they're evidently shotgunning it out to everyone on their mailing list.
I'd actually apply but I'm about as far away geographically from the qualifying regions as you can get...
I'd actually apply but I'm about as far away geographically from the qualifying regions as you can get...
Yeah, I know...but I'm sorry - I just can't sit around while people talk trash about a place they probably haven't even been to. It happens a lot when people talk about Alaska, so it kind of hit home for me. 
Found this at CNN/Money.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...per/index.html
I would get one. Not paying for gas, and it would cost us here in Central Washington State nothing to charge in up overnight.
Randy
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...per/index.html
I would get one. Not paying for gas, and it would cost us here in Central Washington State nothing to charge in up overnight.
Randy
BMW will reimburse customers for the cost of charging. But at a monthly cost of $850, driving the Mini E will not be cheap.
850 bucks??? to charge it up monthly??? So what exactly is the benefit of having it? Because it doesn't use gas???
That's ridiculous.... having to spend 850 bucks a month just for charging. Am I missing something?
Mark
Coordinator :: Eastern Iowa MINIs
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,520
Likes: 4
From: Decorah, IA
BMW will reimburse customers for the cost of charging. But at a monthly cost of $850, driving the Mini E will not be cheap.
850 bucks??? to charge it up monthly??? So what exactly is the benefit of having it? Because it doesn't use gas???
That's ridiculous.... having to spend 850 bucks a month just for charging. Am I missing something?
Mark
850 bucks??? to charge it up monthly??? So what exactly is the benefit of having it? Because it doesn't use gas???
That's ridiculous.... having to spend 850 bucks a month just for charging. Am I missing something?
Mark
Remember, there are only 490 going out to leasees.
and sure $850/month is a lot, but then, if you drive a lot, that will save a couple hundred dollars a month in gas costs. And they give you a charging unit for your garage too.
I have no doubt that they will find 490 who are willing to be on the cutting edge, and help advance the cause...
If it were in the SF Bay Area, my mom would be all over this. She can afford it, and she's been jonesing for an electric car ever since she had to turn in her EV-1.
Matt
I have no doubt that they will find 490 who are willing to be on the cutting edge, and help advance the cause...
If it were in the SF Bay Area, my mom would be all over this. She can afford it, and she's been jonesing for an electric car ever since she had to turn in her EV-1.
Matt
Neutral
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Why NJ & So Cal...
For those not in the know...
MINI has chosen Southern California & the New Jersey / New York (city) Area for this test program because of the locations of it's two Distribution centers:
1) Woodcliff Lake NJ
2) Port Hueneme CA
This is where I would guess the cars need to be picked up, serviced & then dropped off at the end of the test period.
MINI has chosen Southern California & the New Jersey / New York (city) Area for this test program because of the locations of it's two Distribution centers:
1) Woodcliff Lake NJ
2) Port Hueneme CA
This is where I would guess the cars need to be picked up, serviced & then dropped off at the end of the test period.
It doesn't make sense to spend that much but if you read what I copied, it says
"BMW will reimburse customers for the cost of charging. But at a monthly cost of $850"
Surely they're talking about lease payments AND electric charges.. I hope so anyways because being on the cutting edge or not, the only way I'd spend 850 bucks on electric would be to drive my H2. The mini uses about a tank a week.... a far cry from even half that.
Mark
So,
what's it worth to participate in bringing helpful technology to market that can halve the oil use impact per mile driven? I understand that there are many who won't be part of the leading edge, or just can't afford to. I'm very happy, however, that there are those who for whatever reason are willing to sacrafice a bit themselves in the short term to help make it better for all in the long.
Matt
Matt
At $850/mo it definitely isn't cost effective (obviously you can get a lot more for your money elsewhere at $850/mo), however if I could at all afford it I'd do it in a heartbeat--just to have the privilege and the opportunity to help shape the future of electric cars, as others have suggested.
$850/mo? that's about similar for a $50k car, I guess they want to recoup their losses and keep it exclusive. Hopefully this will help them engineer a viable back seat, and perhaps a small generator to recharge the batteries in emergencies, or for longer trips.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
BMW North America is in Woodcliff Lake. I don't think there is a DC there. But there may be one near Bayonne or Newark (the ports).
I think those markets have a higher percentage of people with desire to burn money so that they don't burn gas. These are the the most populous areas, as well. I'd venture to say they probably have the highest Mini sales by far of any market, partially because they are the biggest, and because they have the highest concentration of dealers, too. No coincidence, I'm sure.
$850 is a lot of money. It really damages the economics, leaving only the warm and fuzzy reasons for going green. I'd do it if I had the money to, as I said before, burn. I'll stick with burning gas.
I think those markets have a higher percentage of people with desire to burn money so that they don't burn gas. These are the the most populous areas, as well. I'd venture to say they probably have the highest Mini sales by far of any market, partially because they are the biggest, and because they have the highest concentration of dealers, too. No coincidence, I'm sure.
$850 is a lot of money. It really damages the economics, leaving only the warm and fuzzy reasons for going green. I'd do it if I had the money to, as I said before, burn. I'll stick with burning gas.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
Well, it's $850/month, but you don't have to worry about any energy costs. So for someone that's been paying a $550/month lease and $300/month in gas, this would pretty much be an even swap.
Sadly, a generator isn't going to be an option without a significant redesign, because with no gasoline engine in the car at all, there's nothing to turn a generator to recharge the batteries.
Sadly, a generator isn't going to be an option without a significant redesign, because with no gasoline engine in the car at all, there's nothing to turn a generator to recharge the batteries.
Last edited by ScottRiqui; Oct 21, 2008 at 07:14 PM.
Well, it's $850/month, but you don't have to worry about any energy costs. So for someone that's been paying a $550/month lease and $300/month in gas, this would pretty much be an even swap.
Sadly, a generator isn't going to be an option without a significant redesign, because with no gasoline engine in the car at all, there's nothing to turn a generator to recharge the batteries.
Sadly, a generator isn't going to be an option without a significant redesign, because with no gasoline engine in the car at all, there's nothing to turn a generator to recharge the batteries.
I agree... if that price includes the lease payment, then it's probably a washout. I was reading that comment as 850 for charging.
My stupidity....
Mark
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
No, the phrasing of that line in the article was awkward. The way I understand it is that the $850 covers the lease (along with all maintenance and services). You pay for the charging out-of-pocket, but BMW reimburses you for all charging costs, so your only net cost is the $850 per month.
Found this at CNN/Money.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...per/index.html
I would get one. Not paying for gas, and it would cost us here in Central Washington State nothing to charge in up overnight.
Randy
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...per/index.html
I would get one. Not paying for gas, and it would cost us here in Central Washington State nothing to charge in up overnight.
Randy
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,193
Likes: 1
From: CT, Litchfield County
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,349
Likes: 2
From: Concord, California
Only in California.... 
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM CALIFORNIA ???
"BMW plans to release a limited run of 500 all-electric Minis next year in order to meet new Californian regulations that require carmakers selling cars in the state to offer zero emission vehicles. These latest spy shots show a prototype of the upcoming electric vehicle only a few weeks out from its Los Angeles Auto Show debut.
The Mini factory located in Oxford, England, supply cars without powertrains to a team located in Munich, Germany, which then adds the electric powertrain. BMW is yet to release any details about the powertrain, but previous reports speculated that it could feature lithium-ion batteries powering a single electric motor driving the front wheels.
BMW is expected to ship all 500 electric Minis to California, with 490 to be leased to selected customers and the remaining ten used as demonstration vehicles. All will be painted silver but are easily distinguished by their missing exhaust pipes and electric motor whine.
If you find the idea of an all-electric Mini appealing but don’t live in California, a company in Nevada can build you one complete with a 105hp (78kW) brushless AC motor and lithium-ion batteries. Nevada’s Hybrid Technologies has in fact been producing the electric Minis for the past year and claims that charging up the car’s batteries takes about 8-10 hours from a regular household power outlet. Top speed is only around 80mph but driving at a slower speed preserves battery-life and means owners will be able to travel up to 120 miles on a single charge."
The idea is okay but what good is only being able to travel 120 miles? Anotherwards, the car is good for local use only.
I'm not against that but the cost to produce and dispose of electric batteries costs much more than the gas/pollution a gas mini uses.
THANKS for acdtually READING this
Mark
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM CALIFORNIA ???
"BMW plans to release a limited run of 500 all-electric Minis next year in order to meet new Californian regulations that require carmakers selling cars in the state to offer zero emission vehicles. These latest spy shots show a prototype of the upcoming electric vehicle only a few weeks out from its Los Angeles Auto Show debut.
The Mini factory located in Oxford, England, supply cars without powertrains to a team located in Munich, Germany, which then adds the electric powertrain. BMW is yet to release any details about the powertrain, but previous reports speculated that it could feature lithium-ion batteries powering a single electric motor driving the front wheels.
BMW is expected to ship all 500 electric Minis to California, with 490 to be leased to selected customers and the remaining ten used as demonstration vehicles. All will be painted silver but are easily distinguished by their missing exhaust pipes and electric motor whine.
If you find the idea of an all-electric Mini appealing but don’t live in California, a company in Nevada can build you one complete with a 105hp (78kW) brushless AC motor and lithium-ion batteries. Nevada’s Hybrid Technologies has in fact been producing the electric Minis for the past year and claims that charging up the car’s batteries takes about 8-10 hours from a regular household power outlet. Top speed is only around 80mph but driving at a slower speed preserves battery-life and means owners will be able to travel up to 120 miles on a single charge."
The idea is okay but what good is only being able to travel 120 miles? Anotherwards, the car is good for local use only.
I'm not against that but the cost to produce and dispose of electric batteries costs much more than the gas/pollution a gas mini uses.
THANKS for acdtually READING this
Mark
Just got an email from MINI with the e-MINI offer.
Up to 500 available for a 1 year lease
Must live in So Cal or NY/NJ Metro Areas
Application operiod begins in Mid-Nov
See http://www.miniusa.com/?eid=179&tid=.../learn/MINIE-m to learn more.
If anyone here does get one of these I'd really like to discuss writing about it for the NAM Magazine please.
Up to 500 available for a 1 year lease
Must live in So Cal or NY/NJ Metro Areas
Application operiod begins in Mid-Nov
See http://www.miniusa.com/?eid=179&tid=.../learn/MINIE-m to learn more.
If anyone here does get one of these I'd really like to discuss writing about it for the NAM Magazine please.
Got to say I WANT to hate this ....BUT ....
I understand that electricity come form somewhere .
But this IS what our country / population are asking for.
Maybe MINI can produce the NUKE reactors to power our power stations ???
You're missing something...
the electricity infrastructure has practically no storage capacity, so it's 2/3rds idle on average. It has to hit peak demand, and that's how capacity is determined. So most of the capital assets aren't doing squat most of the time. According to SoCal Edisson, there is capacity in the generation and grid to convert 63% of the current light vehicle fleet to all electric IF you charge off peak capacity (this is over 160 million vehicles and this number was agreed to by many, including the Toyota rep on alternative propulsion system, an APS study on end use efficiencies, and some sensationalist author who wrote some book called "The Plan" about what to do if Iran blocks the Straights of Hormuz). This actually has the odd effect of lowering the cost of electricity per kWH, because the utilization percentage is higher in this scenario, and there are more kWHs sold to help pay for the capital costs of generation.
Anyway, it's not perfect, and the economics are way off for some, but if you drive a lot of miles, it's not as bad as it sounds.
We're into a 5 year loan on our Cooper Clubman. It's $320 a month. We'll do a bit less than $150/month in gas costs. So to do this one, we'd have to shell out a lot of money. If you were in a two year lease and drove a lot farther than we will drive the clubbie, the subsidy for being part of the e-team is less and less.
Matt
Anyway, it's not perfect, and the economics are way off for some, but if you drive a lot of miles, it's not as bad as it sounds.
We're into a 5 year loan on our Cooper Clubman. It's $320 a month. We'll do a bit less than $150/month in gas costs. So to do this one, we'd have to shell out a lot of money. If you were in a two year lease and drove a lot farther than we will drive the clubbie, the subsidy for being part of the e-team is less and less.
Matt
I'm a bit curious if they'll ever roll this out to other non-urban areas, unlike the EV1. I like the idea of having an EV, and would actually work quite well where I live (as proven by a few people - one family has two Zenns , and another guy made an EV out of a VW Golf).
Fuel is extraordinarily more expensive here than most places, and many of us have very short commutes (less than 10 miles one way in most cases). As you may have figured, engines don't get to warm up completely - which means increased emissions compared to an engine and catalytic converter that has been given time to heat up completely.
Fuel is extraordinarily more expensive here than most places, and many of us have very short commutes (less than 10 miles one way in most cases). As you may have figured, engines don't get to warm up completely - which means increased emissions compared to an engine and catalytic converter that has been given time to heat up completely.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 38,578
Likes: 2
Somehow I doubt it. The dance over zero emission vehicles is far from over...I'm just glad the conversation is underway again. Personally, I am also thankful for the role California plays in the whole drama!!!
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
A funny thought occurred to me. If you wanted to drive long distances in the electric MINI, then carry the equivalent of a spare. A generator!! To produce your own electricity to charge your car. Of course, that runs on gasoline, so you'll need to carry 3 to 5 gallons of gas to power that, plus spend 8 to 10 hours for a full charge, you might end up spending a lot more to keep it running, lol.
4th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
A funny thought occurred to me. If you wanted to drive long distances in the electric MINI, then carry the equivalent of a spare. A generator!! To produce your own electricity to charge your car. Of course, that runs on gasoline, so you'll need to carry 3 to 5 gallons of gas to power that, plus spend 8 to 10 hours for a full charge, you might end up spending a lot more to keep it running, lol.
The current name for this
is called an "extended range hybrid". It's actually very, very efficient. You loose all the driveline losses (almost all), you get to run the IC motor at it's most efficient point, you loose all the idle/standby losses in current car use AND you get to use all electric propulsion at times of your choice (like city driving and short trips).
As far as a wider roll out of electric vehicles, two things are needed:
1) Economies of scale are needed to lower driveline/battery prices.
2) Battery technology needs some improvement.
But that said, there are lots and lots of drivers for electric and partial electrics so I don't think that the trend will ever stop. It will slow and accelerate, but it's here to stay....
Matt
As far as a wider roll out of electric vehicles, two things are needed:
1) Economies of scale are needed to lower driveline/battery prices.
2) Battery technology needs some improvement.
But that said, there are lots and lots of drivers for electric and partial electrics so I don't think that the trend will ever stop. It will slow and accelerate, but it's here to stay....
Matt