Especially all the people around here driving around in Prius's and picking on me for driving a big truck. Emissions in CA suck badly though. I wouldn't say that we are all tree-huggers. Hell I just cut down a tree in my backyard that was dropping leaves everywhere. Did I plant a new one? No! Ha Take that environment! j/k

 

If you lived in So Cal (maybe detroit, chicago) in the 1980's as a child or an adult and had to stay indoors because the sky was dark brown and you could go outside because of all the crap in the air, and now have asthema or some other lung disease because of it, you'd appreciate all that stupid california does.

I'm happy that the Stage I got released, and if it didn't.. Oh well, i prefer not to have black sh** coming out of my nose every single day or need to carry an inhaler because you can taste the crap in air.

You say you own two bodyshops? Why don't you go into a booth and start spraying without a respirator, regular or waterbased, you choose. Then, you may get a clue as to how stupid we are to not want to live thru the smog of the 80's again. You sound like a rebel, so, why don't you take it a level further and not wear goggles and then you'd know how much the air stung your eyes. but, i dare say that YOU aren't stupid enough to do any of that.

welcome to the brotherhood of the stupid.




Now, i'll admit that So Cal has a special environment that makes it very prone to smog formation, so for the rest of you who do not live in an area like ours. Maybe you'd like to have leaded fuel back? Fuel would be cheaper, engines would be cheaper to produce too.

 

First, it's the "Dust to Dust" report by CNW Marketing, not "Dusk to Dusk". I haven't finished reading it yet (it's 450 pages), but like any report, it's only as good as its assumptions. Their results for the Hummer were $1.95 per mile, and the Prius was $3.25 per mile. Problem is, they averaged the total energy costs of the Hummer over a 300,000-mile period, while they only averaged the Prius over a 100,000-mile period.

So in CNW's calculations, the total "dust to dust" energy cost for the Hummer is $585,000, while the total energy cost for the Prius is only $325,000. The final "per mile" numbers only came out the way they did because they (rather arbitrarily) chose to spread the Hummer's costs over a "lifetime" that's three times longer than the Prius'.

Also, since CNW's calculations include *everything* about producing a car, including initial conception, design, testing & development, Hybrids such as the Prius take an unfair hit because they're basically the test beds for an entire new industry and shoulder ALL of the research/development costs, whereas the Hummer shares parts and processes with many other GM products, meaning that the costs of developing and testing these parts and processes get spread out over many models.

In other words, part of the elevated energy cost for the Prius is because it's new, and that cost isn't going to go anywhere but down as more automakers research and produce hybrids, and as individual automakers begin having many different hybrid models within their lineup to spread the costs out.

Remember how much the first compact disc players cost? That's where we are with Hybrids right now.

 

Okay guys, don't get your panties in a knot. I apologize for calling people in California stupid, I really meant that the rules in CA are stupid sometimes.

I understand the need to try to keep the air clean, better emissions, etc, etc... I just hate the way California goes over the edge.

I personally would love to live in California, I just hate some of the ridiculous rules that they have.

But hey, if you like it, great....

And for the poster that mentioned Nascar, I hate Nascar.



I wish I could tell you I knew of that. I moved to the States from Canada in 1979. I didn't know anything of crap in the air...

That would be great... where do I sign up?




Just out of curiousity, didn't a previous poster mention that Prius' have been out for 8 years? (I don't know, I'm asking)

The reason I mention that is the H2 has only been out for 6 years and I assumed that they were comparing apples to apples when comparing lifespans.

And yes, I agree, they can skew numbers to show what they want... however, this report wasn't against Prius' or for Hummers.


Mark

 

I really don't have any problem with their report - the problem I have is that people have been throwing up the report's results in the "SUV versus Hybrid" wars without really knowing what the results are saying.

The report was originally looking at the 2005-2006 models, and CNW estimated that because hybrid technology was so new (and the early Priuses weren't being driven very many miles per year by their owners), that once the 2005-2006 Prius got to be 100,000 miles old, they'd also be 15 years old, and it would be better to replace them because the hybrids are improving so quickly. Since the H2 uses established technology, and the authors of the report don't predict the same rate of improvements over the next few years, they went ahead and used 300,000 miles as the "lifetime" for the H2.

Again, these may be reasonable assumptions, but they're never included when people quote the "Prius costs X per mile and the H2 only costs Y per mile" part of the results.

The simple answer is that the total "dust to dust" energy cost of the H2 is *significantly* higher than that of the Prius, and the costs for the Prius are only going to go down, and they're going down quickly.

 

Your Canadian! That explains it all no need to sorry. Especially if you are French-Canadian lol

P.S.- I can make that joke. I moved from Vancouver, B.C. and French-Canadian.

 

Plus in CA people have option to buy electricity via wind power (set price) Not sure if that technology is in "other" states but, my parents like 10 years ago (during the CA GOP Energy Deregulation period, which we now know was spearheaded by GB Sr. and enron) bought in to this from a door to door salesman but they told me they looked online and looked legit, Later I did research turns out they contribute to grid but they still get old pg&e electric, but at half the price, but its wind power from somewhere in CA and recently OR? The thing about it is they no longer tell my little bro and sis to shut the light or turn off the tv when not in use, like they used to tell me. So, bottom line if your a real tree hugger dude, you can get wind power to charge your Electric MINI. If I still lived in CA I'd SO be there in the Santa Cruz mountains wearing a tie-dye T, Birkenstocks, and a custom exhaust pipe bong, charging my electric MINI from wind power and solar panels. But I'm in Philly watching F1 Q3 (good luck Kubica) pipe dreams (or bong) of being in CA. (where the grass is green dude)

 

Hell nooooo. I'm from Alberta... definitely not french canadian.... that's worse than being from California. (just kidding guys... )

It's kind of wierd, California is so ahead of us right coast people. In this thread, you guys are talking about windmills (NEVER even seen one, let alone have a choice to what kind of power you want to pay for) and public plug-ins for your car to recharge your battery... again, never even seen one here from OH to FL.

It's only been the last couple of years that Prius' are common-place... and within the last 6 months, we JUST were able to get smart cars. I'm sure they've been out in CA for a while.

Anyway, again, I apologize for calling the residents of California stupid, I just think some of the rules are stupid... perhaps if I lived there, I'd be of a different mindset.

Mark

 

I will abstain from the "are Californians and NASCRAP rednecks are stupid" debate...

I WILL say that I DID get to drive the Hybrid Technologies MINI earlier this year... for all the hype that would suggest otherwise, at that time (late spring) they had only built TWO electric MINIs... and has dismantled one to re-use the motor in another car. So the one I drove was the ONLY one (and also the one you see in all the photos - the BRG one).

It was a VERY early prototype... but was very cool... GOBS of torque... one speed tranny.... I burned rubber outta the parking lot and it pulled like my RMW-enhanced MCS....

Those guys have nice technology.... and it's getting better... will be interesting to see how the MINI technology compares...

If all my driving was short-to-mid length commuting, I'd buy an electric.... a member of our club is in the queue for his Tesla...

But I DO scratch my head sometimes....
1) Man discovers paradise
2) Man moves in
3) So do 38 million of Man's friends
4) Paradise turns into a cesspool.
5) Man tries to figure out how to make it kinda partially resemble the paradise it used to be. Since, like, moving is out of the question.
6) Paradise goes bankrupt.
7) ????

 

I think in some ways we owe California a debt of gratitude....it's their requirements that budge the whole discussion off dead center, otherwise we'd likely be twiddling our thumbs forever. Someone has to blink first and I'm glad California is has the need/desire to do so.

 

Not sure I would want to buy a Tesla right now. There was an article the other day where they laid off the entire office in Detroit but didn't tell them for a couple days and then told them by text message. May be a great product but not so sure about the business. How long will they be around?

 

I guess you're right...in the long run, it's something that needs to be done. I guess I'm getting old. I hate change, I hate rules and I don't like to be told what to do....

Stubborn 'ol fool I guess. They must be right because we end up copying them in the end.

Mark

 

In some ways it's a very exciting time for the automobile. New technologies, new models available in the US markets, companies rethinking everything...history in the making perhaps? What is equally amazing is that a car first produced in 1959 (the Mini/MINI) is still making headlines and garnering major attention...yes, for the electric model, but also for small cars that are fun, very capable, and premium. Also amazing...that this 1959 car has somehow succeeded in so many ways where others have not!!!!

 

I know, we Californians are so stupid. We have beautiful weather all year round, close to LA + SD, have access to surf if you board, beautiful women in bikinis, snowboarding if youre into to, did I mention beautiful weather and women in bikinis.

North Carolina? Uh. Ok.

What's the best part of North Carolina?

The middle, so no matter where you go, you're leaving!

 

I was trying to google pics of santa cruz free electric plug-ins. But, interesting article I found that santa cruz city council was debating to put bid for a fleet of the Electric MINIs but chose Zenn for their regenerative brakes. Costco stores in CA also planning free plug-ins. And also googled pic of google headquarters just put solar powered plug-in. I wish city of santa cruz would get these
"0 to 60 in 4 seconds electric MINIs"
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...ybrid_mini.php

 

Californians are not stupid. Over zealous at times - YES.
If all of the states tried to be as 'green' as Ca, we could all be a lot healthier.
Here in N.J. (the most densely populated state!) we have some of the country's worst air quality, primarily because of all the stuff blown in from the west.
Electric automotive technology is very practical for all environments where limited driving is being done. The problems are: 1) Providing the infrastructure. (I expect that plug in stations could be a lucrative source of state funding.) 2) Getting the general public to accept the technology. (most people don't understand the need and feel entitled to drive their gas guzzling SUVs for every day purposes.)(( I'll get off my soap box now.))
I do have a mid sized SUV in my driveway. It gets used only when my MAGILLA is impractical.
If it was available and practical to use, I would be very happy to drive an electric MINI.

KEEP ON MOTORING - AS GREENLY AS POSSIBLE!

 

Yeah. That explains why out population is dwindling. Now I understand.

 

I've heard electric MINIs will also be sold in New York City.

 

Cool!!!

Pity about the loss of the back seat....I can't see this as being anything but experimental w/o a proper (for a MINI ) back seat.

 

All electric is great for short commutes, but I like the Volt idea better. I want a backup for when I want to go further than 120 miles. It's not proven yet, though. This Mini is a good start, and while I'll never be an early adopter on these vehicles, I very rarely drive more than 120 miles in a day, so I can see them replacing gas-only cars very easily.

 

Sad news for electric motorheads:
http://www.mercurynews.com/cars/ci_10727401

 

Found this at CNN/Money.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...per/index.html

I would get one. Not paying for gas, and it would cost us here in Central Washington State nothing to charge in up overnight.

Randy

 

Just got an email from MINI with the e-MINI offer.

Up to 500 available for a 1 year lease

Must live in So Cal or NY/NJ Metro Areas

Application operiod begins in Mid-Nov

See http://www.miniusa.com/?eid=179&tid=.../learn/MINIE-m to learn more.

If anyone here does get one of these I'd really like to discuss writing about it for the NAM Magazine please.

 

Um. I don't want to get too into this, but a problem I have with California is just the sheer number of people living there (and the problems that are a direct result of that). And yes, I've lived there on several occasions in my life (SD, SFO, SJ). As it sits right now, California is a place I like visiting (still have relatives there), and yes it definitely has its positive sides. I just choose not to join the "rat race" that seems so prevalent there (and in many highly-populated areas in the US).

I have not lived in North Carolina, but I have been there. The weather may not be so nice over there year-round (I personally like weather to vary from time to time), but it does have its share of beautiful beaches (OBX is one example). Believe me, there are plenty of attractive women in NC as well - and many have had the brains to go with the looks. And all the people I've met in NC (and from NC) have been very down-to-earth, genuinely friendly people. Oh and I can't forget - the Dragon is in NC as well. Every MINI enthusiast should slay the dragon!

NC definitely isn't anywhere near as bad as you may have been suggesting here... Can't we all just get along?