Warranty problems for auto-xers?
My parental status is irrelevant. You were the one asking the question. Besides - if your chief concern is someone taping up a license plate either you've got way too much time on your hands or your priorities are skewed.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 46
I'll add:
Suspension:
On the autocross course, there are no potholes, road debris, railroad tracks, etc. Otherwise, over that TOTAL of four minutes per event you are on course, how is the suspension being 'worn'?
Brakes:
That autocross run might have, at most, three really hard brake zones. Over four runs, that is 12 really hard braking zones per event, and most people do one event month during the summer. But one good drive in the twisties, and you are going to have a few really hard braking points. Heck, some people have to brake hard that many times a month during their commute!
Tires:
yeah, those get worn faster than the guy going back and forth to work. But again, if you like to go out and hit the twisties once in a while, you are going to eat up your tires. Plus, tires aren't warranty items.
I will maintain that cars that are autocrossed are a LESSER liability to a dealership in terms of warranty repair for several factors:
A.) Most autocrossers take better care of their cars.
B.) Many autocrossers modify thier cars, and don't expect warranty coverage on the replaced parts (of course)
C.) Are better drivers that keep their car out of trouble on the street.
Suspension:
On the autocross course, there are no potholes, road debris, railroad tracks, etc. Otherwise, over that TOTAL of four minutes per event you are on course, how is the suspension being 'worn'?
Brakes:
That autocross run might have, at most, three really hard brake zones. Over four runs, that is 12 really hard braking zones per event, and most people do one event month during the summer. But one good drive in the twisties, and you are going to have a few really hard braking points. Heck, some people have to brake hard that many times a month during their commute!
Tires:
yeah, those get worn faster than the guy going back and forth to work. But again, if you like to go out and hit the twisties once in a while, you are going to eat up your tires. Plus, tires aren't warranty items.
I will maintain that cars that are autocrossed are a LESSER liability to a dealership in terms of warranty repair for several factors:
A.) Most autocrossers take better care of their cars.
B.) Many autocrossers modify thier cars, and don't expect warranty coverage on the replaced parts (of course)
C.) Are better drivers that keep their car out of trouble on the street.
Then why do the really avid hard core autocrossers change their oil after every autocross if it's not putting any additional wear on the engine than a commute?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
I think Latka has the right idea as to what to tell your son, assuming he's old enough to understand the concepts. Tell him that the conditions of the warranty are vague, and that some dealers use participation in autocross to wrongfully deny warranty claims.
This also might be a good time to stress the fact that as he goes through life, the less personal information he broadcasts, the better off he'll be. It's much the same reason that most people don't post their home phone number or Social Security number online - they're not ashamed of having phones or Social Security numbers, but they realize that the wider the audience that knows personal information about them, the more potential for trouble there is.
This also might be a good time to stress the fact that as he goes through life, the less personal information he broadcasts, the better off he'll be. It's much the same reason that most people don't post their home phone number or Social Security number online - they're not ashamed of having phones or Social Security numbers, but they realize that the wider the audience that knows personal information about them, the more potential for trouble there is.
I only know a few autocrossers that change their oil after an event. They usually run racing fuel, which can contaminate oil, and break it down faster.
Never met any driver in any stock or even slightly modded class that changes their oil everytime.
Never met any driver in any stock or even slightly modded class that changes their oil everytime.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 46
So you're not a parent?
I really think, Mr. Buzzsaw, that you are off base one this one. Additionally, in the 10 years I've been autocrossing, from San Diego to Charlotte to Fort Knox to Milwaukee, I've NEVER seen anyone tape up their license plate.
I have seen clubs not post results for people who were not club members due to some insurance companies dropping people from their coverage when they found out they autocrossed.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
And I think that autocrossing falls in the range of "acceptable use". Sure, it's not as gentle on the engine as a diet of strictly highway miles, but it's better than a bunch of stop-and-go driving every day. Looking at my data logs from last event:
Four runs total. One upshift per run, with the shift taking place around 3000 rpm. The rest of the course was in second gear, so no other shifts during the run.
Max engine speed for the *entire day* was 5525RPM, and I spent about four total minutes out on course. Maximum vehicle speed was about 50 MPH.
So it's not as if we're doing full-throttle upshifts, popping the clutch out, and repeatedly bouncing the engine off the rev limiter. True - there will be more wear than if I babied it down the freeway all day, but I don't think there's anything in there that constitutes "abuse".
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 46
Thanks for the lecture warden. You have answered my questions. I look forward to your next intelligible utterance.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 7
From: Burlington, VT
Getting away from all the bickering...
It's going to depend upon the dealership to an extent. My dealership knows what I do with my car. They've helped me out when I've called on Monday saying "I need a new CV boot on the car by Thrusday so I can go to the track on Friday".
I've seen very few people remove / tape / change plates for an autocross or track day.
The only people who change oil regularly are those that use special race oil, which is not good for daily driving.
So, if you're concerned, ask the dealership what they think about autocrossing / track days. Or, if you're afraid that that will be enough of a tip for them to be suspicious, ask other customers of the dealership.
It's going to depend upon the dealership to an extent. My dealership knows what I do with my car. They've helped me out when I've called on Monday saying "I need a new CV boot on the car by Thrusday so I can go to the track on Friday".
I've seen very few people remove / tape / change plates for an autocross or track day.
The only people who change oil regularly are those that use special race oil, which is not good for daily driving.
So, if you're concerned, ask the dealership what they think about autocrossing / track days. Or, if you're afraid that that will be enough of a tip for them to be suspicious, ask other customers of the dealership.
Neutral
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere....
As for the oil comment, personally i think its a good idea to change afterwards because your beating the hell out of the car and heating the oil up quite a bit. heat breaks down oil. it doesn't break extremely fast but still does break down with tons of heat so why not change the oil as added cushion to keep your rod/main bearings in good condition and thrust bearings.
As for the dealership warranty stuff, the techs really hate it when you pretty much lie to their face about what happened and try to cover it under warranty. for example, you suck up water and hydrolock the engine and then you pull the plugs and push the water out and drain the oil and change it.... this happens more than you'd like to think and 99.9 percent of the time the customer gets caught trying to pass it off as "it just wouldn't start and then when it did it just started making this knocking noise and i dont know what happened"
Last edited by JeffN; Aug 29, 2007 at 04:40 PM.
yep. again, people who apparently haven't done it before. One minute in second gear. Usually only one shift per run.
Any good autocrosser shouldnt have a problem with excessive wear on their car, and for that reason there shouldnt be any warenty problems I just thought I would hcek with the community. So long as you know the basics for autocrossing like clutch in when you spin out and downshifting is useless then you should have fairly minial wear on the car. I usually pop the hood and run the radiator fan after I run to make sure it doesn't suffer any bad heat soak. There is always a lot of people running 18 year old civics/CRX with tons of miles on them that are running fine.
Neutral
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere....
the thing about the oil change intervals is that the DME takes into account your driving habits (ammount of gas run through motor, average throttle position, average speed, your driving habits, average of rpms and it calculates your oil change based on all that. the oiling system for the engines are pretty advanced and the technology has come a long way. for auto crossing though when your hanging at high rpms all the tim and beating on it all the time to get around the course the fastest id personally say still change the oil every 3k if you do it alot. if its just once on the weekend then your probably just fine with leaving the oil there until it tells you to change it.
Last edited by JeffN; Aug 30, 2007 at 08:33 PM.
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