the saddest thing is that a lot of time tailgating works. I dont tailgate myself, but with my first post, I had to say, EVERYONE moved for him. I would say with my non-tailgating, in Illinois less than 25% of people move, I just go around; however, in Wisconsin, it was closer to 75%, the land of cheese rules.

I agree though tailgating is stupid, but IMO, driving too slow in the left lane w/o awarenes of your surroundings is not much less stupid. In both cases the parties are inconsiderate and again, IMO, both cause accidents. I do neither, but I do plenty of other stupid things

 

I found this. Read the 2nd one from the bottom. I also remember hearing something about a new law that if you are slowing down traffic, exceeding the speed limit or not, you need to move over. I am trying to locate it on the web.

 

Yes, in Illinois it is often faster to be in the right hand lane. Because, you know, it is my RIGHT - given by GOD - to drive exactly the speed limit in the left hand lane. This is America, not California, thank you very much.

 

In my 02 Cooper I had the rear fog activated and whenever I get tailgated I turn them on. The tailgaters think I'm brake-checking and back off.

 

http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/5-545.pdf

The "Fatal Five" that are actively enforced in IL.

And as far as people moving over for I suggest you also take a look at cell phone usage and pasengers in the veh. might have some interesting observations.....and WI the cell signal sucks once you get up in the state a little ways.

 

Up here I've just watched that bring them closer.

Of course I didn't move fast enough for someone behindme in a right on red situation after I had started moving....so I stopped made them wait the full 90 sec or so of the light. I had about a 10 sec following distance on alone lane road after that

 

Like most of you, I drive 40 miles on the same stretch of hiway every day, and it's not only for commuters going to work, but also a conduit for college kids between two towns. It's a 4 lane divided hiway with a grass median, the posted speed is 70 and the average is just over 80! I used to hustle along with everyone else, often finding myself in a line of cars 5 feet apart doing about 85 mph and one day I realized - why am I in such a hurry to get to work? I mean really! To work????

Now I set the cruise at 72-73 and just motor in the right lane. I find that's fast enough that I seem to flow along, it only takes about 2 min longer than it used to and I never pay a bit of attention to all of the police cars parked along the road running radar, cause they pay no attention to me. I also get much better mileage than I did since I'm not on and off the throttle trying to pass someone.

I highly recommend it to all...........

Oh, and stay the hell out of the left lane unless you're passing! (Cars, not the time of day)

 

I was talking to a CHP officer a few months ago (as he was writing me a ticket for improperly exiting the HOV lane ). He was saying this is how CHP generally approaches it, even if the flow of traffic is above the posted speed limit (after all, they aren't going to ticket everybody). The logic, of course, being that the person going 60 in traffic flow of 75 is posing the greatest danger of all.

 

Because its an invitation to road rage?

One day your going to do that to someone who takes great exception to it. And that will be a sad day.

 

yeah, that's not my experience.

 

Sounds like he's already got that passive-aggressive road rage going on in himself.

 

Traveling the speed limit is NOT "impede[ing] other traffic". You can't make up excuses to break a law just because "everyone else is jumping off the bridge".

Certain limited access highways, do, in fact, have minimum speed limits. I think maybe the NJ Turnpike does. They are talking about doing 40 mph in any lane.

Try to find ONE, just ONE case of a person doing the speed limit in MD and getting a ticket for "impeding the flow of traffic"

Lots of luck on that one (and if you do, please post so we can all know)

Some of this thread sounds like people trying to make up excuses to SPEED. If you want to SPEED, take it to the track and away from the innocent public.

 

I'm sorry Art, I think you're wrong on this.

Speeding is a law.
Impeding the flow of traffic is another law.

They are separate laws and you can be charged for impeding the flow of traffic while driving the speed limit.

It's extremely rare, partly because it's hard to catch and enforce, when sitting on the side of the road with a radar or lidar is so much easier to do.

However, if you are driving in the left lane, doing the speed limit, and there is plenty of empty space in the lanes to your right... you are breaking a law too.

Will you actually be pulled over for it? Rarely, if ever... but that doesn't change the fact you're breaking a law by doing it.

Am I saying that this law justifies people wanting to speed? No. I'm simply saying that someone doing that has no right to get "high and mighty" about their actions in comparison to speeders. Both are wrong. Only one is enforced regularly, but that doesn't make the less enforced one "more right".

 

I'm not sure it is a law everywhere. I know it is a law in California. I don't think it is a law in IL. You'll note that in the "Fatal Five" enforced in IL posted upthread it says "while traveling on an interstate highway..." you can't ride in the left lane unless passing.

 

Sorry Edge, but not true in MD. The law is very clear on this

Section 21-804

(a) Unless reduced speed is necessary for the safe operation of the vehicle or otherwise is in compliance with law, a person may not willfully drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.

http://www.statelawyers.com/Statutes...ID:20/ID:56973

That's pretty clear. You cannot willfully drive a motor vehicle to impede the normal flow of traffic ... UNLESS in compliance with law. Speed limit is the law.

"normal and reasonable" does not imply "speeding".

You can't just break a speed limit law because "everyone else is"

 

too much controversy over this subject..(if im using the right word..)
i say everyone has their own opinions and thoughts. and if they get in trouble for it then that's that. but jsut cause one person thinks one thing doesnt mean you make everyone else think wat you're thinking.
everyone has their own free will and i guess can pretty much do watever they want.
well..at least until they get caught i guess..

 

It appears that VA law is identical to MD law

§ 46.2-877. Minimum speed limits.
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+46.2-877

That "in compliance with law" bit just get does get in the way

Try to find ONE, just ONE case, in any state, of a conviction for impeding the flow of traffic for a motorist doing the speed limit on ANY road (and not a case of obvious civil disobedience like the kids hogging all the lanes of a multilane highway).

There are clearly minimum speed limits on some highways, but we are talking doing the speed limit.

The is another urban myth with a discussion thread on Snopes. I view this in the same class if urban myths as the MM Act in relation to performance aftermarket parts. I'm still looking for ONE, just ONE case where a consume won an MM act case against a car maker for an aftermarket performance part issue.

If you find one, please post.

 

Only clear on the half you chose to present. Chows you are completely missing my point on this. I am not condoning speeding, AT ALL. NIL. ZILCH. I am simply pointing out that impeding the flow of traffic is a separate and also "wrong" thing to do, even from a legal standpoint.

Guess what law you missed in your valiant search to prove me wrong? Also in MD, here:

Section 21-303

(d) Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted, the driver of an overtaken vehicle, on audible signal, shall give way to the right in favor of the overtaking vehicle.

(e) Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted, the driver of an overtaken vehicle, until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle, may not increase the speed of his vehicle.

The first three sections of course state you must pass on the left and do so safely.

See what I mean? Two wrongs don't make a right, and whether it is enforced or not, hogging the left lane at the speed limit for no good reason is -also- against the law and -also- wrong. It's a form of vigilante justice, nothing less. And before you go claiming an "audible signal" is just a police, fire or ambulance siren... a horn is too. There's no mention of an emergency vehicle in that law.

Next time you do a legal search to try to prove your point, please do it from both sides.

(in this case, search on "overtaking")Again, next time do a search on BOTH sides when trying to prove your point, in VA - here:

§ 46.2-802. Drive on right side of highways.
Except as otherwise provided by law, on all highways of sufficient width, the driver of a vehicle shall drive on the right half of the highway, unless it is impracticable to travel on such side of the highway and except when overtaking and passing another vehicle, subject to the provisions applicable to overtaking and passing set forth in Article 4 (§ 46.2-837 et seq.) of this chapter.

No it doesn't, in either case, because a person hogging the left lane at the speed limit isn't in compliance with the law, as proven above. You're ignoring the above laws and trying to say that the speed limit is the only law that matters. It isn't. It may be the only one that is seriously enforced, but that doesn't mean the others don't count.

You're trying to change the terms of the argument. Yes, I know that it is rarely enforced, but that doesn't change the fact that impeding the flow of traffic, even at the speed limit, is against the law, both in MD & VA... and probably most other states too. It's undeniable, at at least for the 2 states above. Surely you can see that!Care to post a link to the Snopes article on this?OK, if you insist on changing the point of the argument (which WAS "is it right or wrong", not "does it ever get enforced"), I'll bite:

Yes, I've heard of it happening before, from a friend.
They objected: "But, officer, all these other cars were speeding!"
The officer's answer: "That may be true, but I can't stop all of these other cars. I CAN stop you for impeding the flow of traffic.".
And the ticket was given. This was in California.

Yes, I know that "hearing" about it from a friend is by no means a "reliable" source, but my friends don't make this kind of stuff up. And I don't think it's the kind of thing that will make news media, because it's just another traffic law being broken. The media wouldn't have a story.

I did find this message board post though, about someone in Georgia. Again, rarely enforced, but it can be, and once in a while, it is (even if the cop is an *** about it). It's still a law.

 

Lets just take this case because it covers everything.

Yes, my quick search was on "impeding" and it only came up with that one law.

Passing on the right is legal in MD on all multilane highways rendering sections d & e moot (sometimes the older laws don't seem to catch up with newer laws). Section b is referring to single lane roads.

Point me to a reference where going the speed limit in the left lane of a multilane highway is against the law. It clearly is not part of the "impeding" law and your reference does not apply to a multilane lane highway as it says "Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted".

Of course two wrongs don't make a right. With no law saying you can't drive at the speed limit in the left lane of a multilane highway, the issue become moral, not legal. Now other states may be different and maybe in VA you can't pass on the right but not in MD.

OK forget about checking for a conviction because everything is "ancedotal" information. For the GA link, the guy was a bit foolish irritating the officer who could easily have said, especially honking his horn, he was on official business. Not a bright thing to do

Snopes. http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/u...00638/p/1.html

just a discussion, no real answers other than ancedotal.

I agree there are different laws and the law that may apply in any state is the one where it EXPLICTELY states you may only drive in the left lane to pass (which probably used to be the law everyone but with more and more traffic became obsolete or archaic). Yes, that was what I was taught as a kid in driver's ed. Lanes were clearly marked in signs, Passing, Passing, Travel (Travel). When I moved to MD, I found that passing on the right was perfectly legal and people just sat in the "high speed" lane and never moved.

Different states, different traffic laws

 

Only for MD.A law does not necessarily have to be created explicitly forbid a very specific behavior in order for that behavior to be against "the law". In some cases, assessing the combination of related laws results in an overall "you were breaking the law" determination.

Your point of MD permitting overtaking on the right is well noted, however you can't ignore VA or any other state which does not allow it, and your previous challenges to me gave me the flexibility of looking at VA or any other state for that matter. Please do not ask me to find an exact law that generically states "driving in the left lane doing the speed limit is against the law", because you and I both know it doesn't exist in that specific form. However, when you combine the VA law that you quoted (bold added for emphasis:

§ 46.2-877. Minimum speed limits.
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

along with THIS VA law that -I- quoted (again, bold added for emphasis):

§ 46.2-802. Drive on right side of highways.
Except as otherwise provided by law, on all highways of sufficient width, the driver of a vehicle shall drive on the right half of the highway, unless it is impracticable to travel on such side of the highway and except when overtaking and passing another vehicle

You quite simply have to conclude that sitting in the left lane, doing the speed limit when traffic is light and there's no good reason for you NOT to be in the right lane(s)... is against the law in Virginia. Period... because if you're breaking 46.2-802, then you aren't in compliance with the law, which means you are also breaking 46.2-877, the moment that someone comes up behind you and wants to continue, but you don't move over.

Clearly MD changes the dynamics by allowing right-side overtaking, but those cases are specific, hence the use of language like "Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted" for situations (like multilane highways, as you suggested) where a person in the left lane does NOT have to yield the right of way.It's only a "moral" issue on specific MD roads. It's still very much a legal issue in VA and many other states. You originally said:And you couldn't have been more wrong about that.

We can agree that it varies state by state... however I hope you can concede your original claims of how driving in the left lane doing the speed limit of being "OK" are only correct in specific circumstances, in specific states, and that it can be illegal to do in many circumstances.

Bottom line... just be courteous, and if there's plenty of space in the lanes on the right (i.e. light traffic), and you want to drive right on the limit, stay the heck out of the left lane unless you are overtaking someone. Heck, it doesn't matter WHAT speed you want to drive (fast or slow), staying out of the left lane unless overtaking is simply good practice.

Leave the policing to the police and the vigilante-style tactics at home. It's common sense, good practice and reduces road rage & frustration for everyone, even on MD highways.

 

OK, so we agree for MD.

I also said: I agree there are different laws and the law that may apply in any state is the one where it EXPLICTELY states you may only drive in the left lane to pass (which probably used to be the law everyone but with more and more traffic became obsolete or archaic).

In any state that laws exist, doing anything other than passing in the left hand lane is illegal. That's a given.
VA says:

§ 46.2-802. Drive on right side of highways.
Except as otherwise provided by law, on all highways of sufficient width, the driver of a vehicle shall drive on the right half of the highway, unless it is impracticable to travel on such side of the highway and except when overtaking and passing another vehicle

Therefore (good find) you can ONLY drive in the right hand lane except to pass. So driving in the left hand lane is ILLEGAL ... PERIOD (unless passing).The other VA law says:
§ 46.2-877. Minimum speed limits.
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

Since the first law says you cannot drive in the left lane except to pass, it has to be referring to the right or travel lanes. It's titled "Minimum speed limits". Virtually all states have minimum speed limits on limited access highways. Some are clearly marked like 65 mph max speed, 40 mph minimum speed.

So VA law appears to say:

1. Its illegal to drive in the left lane EXCEPT to pass.
2. Its illegal to impede traffic (implied for a multilane highway since you can't "travel" in the left lane) in the right or travel lanes.

Does that sound right?

This discussion started with JustJay's comments on MD law. This was his reference, some driving tips. My comment was:
Traveling the speed limit is NOT "impede[ing] other traffic". (concerning the high speed lane). In MD, it's not. In Va, the law being broken is § 46.2-802 which is not about impeding traffic. But there is a law in VA that says stay out of the left hand lane except to pass. (yeah its a technicality and still illegal but not exactly "impeding". I see your point about multiple laws but the discussion was about "impeding". Still, your right - illegal to drive in the left lane in VA ... I got it).

Bottom line... just be courteous, and if there's plenty of space in the lanes on the right (i.e. light traffic), and you want to drive right on the limit, stay the heck out of the left lane unless you are overtaking someone.

I personally would not disagree with that. But that is because I was taught that at 15. It was taught in driver's ed in another state.

Unfortunately, I think today (in some states) that comes across as old school thinking, the kind of thinking that was pounded into driver ed classes 30 years ago. Different time, different speed limits (pre-1973), far less traffic. Some states have decided it was time for those passing on the left only laws to change. Does it remain common courtesy? I really believe it depends ENTIRELY on the state you live in. I've been living in MD and drivining 99.9% of the miles in here for so long, the very concept of just passing on the left only is totally alien. It's a long gone (more than 30 years) practice. Living in VA, your experience is going to be different. In another state, who knows. This may be an area where the different state laws is NOT a good thing.

The lack of common state traffic laws may, in fact, be a dangerous thing. For example, when driving in Massachusetts they allow people to drive in the breakdown lanes. The first time I saw that I couldn't believe how dangerous that was as people just flew by you in the breakdown lane (yeah a solid line to the right of the "right" lane). Can you imagine driving on I495, you cross the state line into MD, and all of a sudden people dive into the breakdown lanes to blow by you? Just taking an exit is dangerous.

In fact, the lack of consistency between state laws is probably a good topic for a different thread.

Leave the policing to the police and the vigilante-style tactics at home. It's common sense, good practice and reduces road rage & frustration for everyone, even on MD highways.

I don't know where this is coming from but I agree with that. I don't really see that so much, in fact rarely. What I do see are two things that are VERY, VERY common. In fact, I see it all the time.

1. Some drive exactly at 55 mph on state highways (not so much on Interstates) and refused to move over. It has nothing to do with being a vigilante. Rather, they are just oblivious to everything else around them. They are in total compliance with state law (a law that has been around a long time), maybe they learned to drive that way ... and that's it. Nothing is moving them over. The arguments about courtesy don't hold water because its "group think" from out of state or "old think" from older folks.
2. Some drive in the left lane is doing exactly 55 mph because they are going to take a left hand lane exit off the highway (there are left hand exits). But, then move into the left hand lane 3, 4, 5 miles BEFORE the exit and again, they are totally oblivious to those around them, and again, are prefectly legal.

You also see this behaviour on I95 in northern MD and in DE. In both cases there are rest areas in the median strips so people move into the left hand lane, do the speed limit, and just stay there until they exit.

 

Hmmm. I find this whole thread frustrating.

A lot of people have justified the sitting in the left lane, because they are not speeding. So, absolutely no-one who is blocking the left lane is speeding? Hard to believe.

Regardless of the speed that I am going, I will not block the fast lane or anyone trying to pass me. I expect the same level of courtesy from the others I see on the road. If you are in the left lane, and someone comes up behind you, move over. What is the big deal? This is what I would call being courteous, and I was kind of hoping that most Mini owners were more evolved, and did not need to show how big an ego they had, just so that they could slow down someone who was of course SPEEDING!

If you were waling down a sidewalk, how would you feel is someone purposely walked more slowly in front of you? I am pretty sure you would be annoyed. Now, I know the responses will be that walking fast is not against the law, but speeding is. Agreed, but we are average people, and NOT police officers. We are not the ones who are here to enforce the laws, and I really cannot imagine a reason to purposely block someone.

I could go on for days, but to me, it really just comes down to courtesy. I do not see the point to be rude on purpose.

 

Yes, although the MD law I did quote previously suggested that honking the horn at someone would be sufficient to require them to move right. Not that they would, most likely. True... but if you are speeding in the left lane, and you are passing everyone, you are breaking one law, not two. Just speeding. That's it (I'm not talking about recklessness here).Well, in heavy traffic, where there simply isn't room to drive in the right lanes, the situation is different... but even then you'll tend to find that the left lane is travelling the fastest, most especially because it is the most insulated from merging & exiting traffic... presuming of course nobody is driving much slower than traffic permits.No... it is illegal to impede traffic in any lane, not just the right lane. I don't understand why you only listed right or travel lanes in #2 there. The point is that there is no "free pass" to slow down other traffic in the left lane while doing the limit, if there is plenty of room for you to get over.No... by obvious definition, a car that is "speeding" in the left lane is passing at all times, -unless- there are no other cars around. Therefore the only law they are breaking by doing so is speeding. It's not illegal simply to be in the left lane. It's illegal to be in the left lane and be slowing down other traffic needlessly (i.e. there's plenty of room for you on the right) at the same time.And is exactly that kind of backwards thinking that causes so much traffic, gridlock and other road problems in this country. People see driving as a right, not a priviledge. Visit a country like Germany, which has very strict rules about these sorts of things (especially "lane courtesy"), and it's truly light years ahead of the way it's done here. Proof of the pudding - much higher speed limits, much faster travel on average, and a far lower accident & death rate (per capita) than the USA.Absolutely, 100% agree. And in this case, I strongly prefer the VA traffic law over the MD traffic law (wow, that's rare for me).Didn't know that... and I agree, it's nuts.Agreed. I have a link for you though, worth your time:

Drive Right Pass Left Official WebsiteI disagree. Sure, there are plenty of oblivious drivers out there... but there are also plenty of vigilante people who know EXACTLY what they are doing and choose to exercise their "God-given right" to drive in the left lane at the speed limit as long as they wish... never mind that they are causing a lot of anger & frustration from the people behind them... which only makes things LESS safe not more. And your apparent defense of these people is what got me into the thread to begin with. I've seen them - plenty of them. I've even seen them LOOK at me (or the driver when I'm a passenger) in their rear view mirror, and then choose to ignore the fact they have plenty of space to move over, or sometimes worse (including hand gestures). And not only in MD, where perhaps the law doesn't compel them (maybe we oughta try the horn more!), but in VA and other states too.Again, not in every state... I hope you're talking about MD... be specific!And at least in states where it is against the law, we should be asking for more enforcement to wake people up to the correct law-abiding behavior. In states where it isn't, we perhaps should be looking to change the laws to make it so, and then enforcing them. The link I provided above hopes to have some impact on this behavior, as difficult a task as it may be.

 

I think we are getting close here

§ 46.2-802. Drive on right side of highways.
Except as otherwise provided by law, on all highways of sufficient width, the driver of a vehicle shall drive on the right half of the highway, unless it is impracticable to travel on such side of the highway and except when overtaking and passing another vehicle

This is pretty clear. Stay in the right except to pass. Rush hour traffic, then its impractical so its OK. That is how I see this.
Because by definition of 46.2-802. It is illegal to be in the left lane (excluding passing/road conditions).

Agreed on that

Do not agree here. Unless your passing (or something like rush hour), its illegal per the quoted law. I dont see how you can argue that because those are the exact words. the driver of a vehicle shall drive on the right half of the highway ...

Here we are going to disagree because I see passing only on the right as backwards and old fashioned. There may have been a time when it was the common law in most states but there had to be a reason other states changed. When there were few cars on the Interstates in the 50s and 60s, that was fine. Today, well the laws have changed.

I'm not going to argue that people view driving as a right because that is true. I think its common for many young people to expect things without earning them ... generations change.

I would not argue any of this. I agree.

OK, this is a misunderstanding. I was talking MD here. People in MD ... I see them doing this all the time. Yup, in VA it might be totally different.

BTW, I am not defending the vigilantes. I would imagine that attitude would invoke road rage. I was only discussing "impeding" traffic laws simply because I know in MD, its fine to do 55 in the left lane on a state highway because you can pass on the right. YMMV and we have beat that to death.

Yes, I should have been clearer. This point was about MD.

That link is interesting.

MD falls in the or permits vehicles moving at the speed limit to drive in the left lane regardless of traffic conditions. That should clearly settle the MD discussion again.

I grew up in MA where it says use of the left lane ONLY for passing or turning left.

This is what was pounded into me as a kid so you can see moving to MD, the law is TOTALLY different.

VA says must yield to overtaking traffic

Then you got MI which is "weird"

I think they should be consistent. It doesn't make sense to me to drive across a state line only to find a totally different law, especially on an interstate. Stay right except to pass makes sense in rural areas, few cars, like the old days in the 50s and 60s. It makes no sense to me today, especially in the east coast, when traffic might not be rush hour but a heavy flow of cars all doing 60 or 70.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

Whew!Agreed.Yes, but that doesn't exclude someone who happens to "illegally" be in the left lane from also impeding traffic at the same time. Just because you are illegal for one thing doesn't mean you can't also be illegal for another thing at the same time!You took my remark out of context. Look at the 2 sentences before it, especially the first one. My point was that being in the left lane with other cars around and speeding (i.e. passing them while doing so) negates any issue with simply being in the left lane, because they are passing. The only issue at that point is speeding. Nothing more... unless traffic clears out and you can get over again. Whew.

To save you looking for it, here's what I said again:On to the next point...I gather you meant passing only on the left. To which I say, without lane courtesy and a clear protocol, you have chaos. Everyone driving in different lanes at different speeds. It's much more dangerous than orderly lane discipline. The German driving habits that we both so highly regard couldn't exist in the same disciplined way without strict "keep right unless overtaking" rules. I see nothing backwards nor oldfashioned about that. It's common sense, logical, much safer and more efficient.Just because laws change does not mean they are better now then they were before.Please keep specificity when trying to make a point, because it does matter, as we've proven.It may be legal, but that doesn't automatically make it a good thing. Not everything legal is good, and not everything illegal is bad. Surely you can appreciate that.I agree, and if more states followed the Uniform Vehicle Code, we'd have less of an issue here... but States keep wanting to ignore standards and do their own thing, don't they? It makes perfect sense, every day, in every type of road, with every type of vehicle. If people truly tried to follow it, it would make a HUGE difference in our traffic congestion, road rage, accidents, etc. The problem is not getting any better, it's getting worse... and loosing up the laws to simply "accept" that people aren't going to do it doesn't do anything to help fix the problem.Apparently so.