Which is why they will be bringing the 1 and D here....

 

I recognize your point, but do not fully agree. The one thing the MINI has that none of these "other offerings" really has is the linkage (whether real or perceived) to its racing heritage. There's nothing more cool that seeing some of the old mountain rally pics where the Minis were dominating big V8 muscle cars like the Corvette. As much as anything, my love for my MINI includes the association with those little cars that seemed so innocuous but yet had no trouble running with, and blowing away, the big boys. The remake of The Italian Job, for me, reinforced that association of combined style and performance in the new MINI that exists with no other car in its class. I know of no "other offerings" that would scratch this itch for me.

 

You look at any other car on the road and you can immediately think of 3 or more other cars it looks like. You can't do that with a MINI. I am not looking forward to a "fresh" design that looks like, well, everything else...

 

Which old Nissans? Like 'em or hate 'em, I have never thought that any of the Bangle cars looked like old Japanese cars.

And just to throw some gas on that fire , I personally like the Bangle 5 Series MUCH better than the 5 that they had just prior. The Bimmer faithful seem to have gotten most up-in-arms about the 5, as if the old 5 was the most beautiful thing in the world and the Bangle version was the most ghastly. Yeah, when the Bangle version came out, it had a few more styling quirks that have since been smoothed out, but over all the design is much more interesting and muscular than the bland, bloated, slightly inbred looking pre-Bangle 5. If you shed the "but it doesn't have exactly the same lines as every other BMW has for the last 35 years!!!" baggage and look at it objectively, the Bangle 5 is a good (and contemporary) looking car.

*flame (surface) suit on*

 

90's maxima's as an example or any of the multitude of triangled/trapezoidal tail lighted, square, indented, rear-ended asia mobiles that are out there.

 

More Minis on the road -> no more uniqueness.

I think a lot of cars look alike. But I sure can tell mazda 3 from a volvo C30 from a Mini. I don't think the Miata looks like a Solstice either. The curse of the windtunnel designed cars seems to be worst with smaller sedans than smaller hatches. So bringing up the Maxima to show how it's different than a Mini isn't really a fair comparison.

Here's an interesting question. How many new Mini owners even knew about the racing heritage (not many, by the way the MC40 sold). How many even new there was an earlier Italian Job movie?

I think the Mini is a great little car, don't get me wrong. But then again, I recognize that the marketplace moves, and that the high price points, dealer locations, and service reps all take their tolls. Staying on top of the market is like walking on the edge of a razor blade. The path is obvious, but it's dangerous if you miss-step even a little bit.

But like I said before... This is a debate with no end.

Matt

 

The Miata looks like a MR2. The Solstice looks like a very bad immitation of the SLK. The Mazda 3 sedan looks like everything else. The wagon looks like... well, I'm not sure, but I'm sure I don't like it. What else out there looks like a MINI?

 

Matt

 

I actually don't agree with that at all. I live pretty much around the corner from you. I see dozens of MINIs a day. Yet I see thousands (probably tens of thousands) of Accords.

Accords blend in. The MINIs don't.

You can't win in this situation. If MINI was building a car that's not loved, then it wouldn't stick around. No MINIs for us. And those of us that did have them would be complaining about how much they suck

Instead, MINI has built a car that's loved everywhere, especially by us. So we see lots of them on the road. I'm okay with that. There was some discussion in another thread that MINI will go the way of Saturn - again I disagree. Saturn's cars are not "unique" - they look like any GM car out there on the road.

It's simple math. MINI sells lots of cars, or they go out of business.

A MINI on the road, even by the hundreds, is still a MINI. No one is mistaking it for anything else. You know how you sometimes go "Hmm, what is that, a Toyota? Oh...a Kia. Huh." when you see a car you don't recognize? No one's doing that with a MINI. They're going "Ohhhhh look it's one of thoooose!" even if they don't know the name of it. No one's mistaking it for a Civic

And for the fear of EVERYONE owning a MINI...that will never happen. For as many of us that love our MINIs, there are three times as many who think it's "too small", "unsafe", "stupid", or "gay" (however uneducated they may be).

I guess I don't get the idea of "if someone else besides me owns a MINI, it's not unique anymore". I'm happy to have more people to share the MINI LUV with

There's no faulting MINI for success, IMO.

 

that I'm more of a car guy than a Mini guy. But that's OK.

Matt

 

I haven't seen any confirmation, and everything I know and have read indicates that small deisel cars won't be sold in CA because of emissions issues, and that the systems that abate the particulates or the NOxs are too big for small cars like ours. Same problem with tiny hybrids.
The Mini 1 just makes no sense at all. In Europe, the power level has tons to do with insurance rates. Not so much so here, so there's really no need for an undertuned cooper.

But I've been out of the loop for a bit. Who knows what's changed!

Matt

 

it's about the new Fiat 500.

http://motoringfile.com/2007/07/06/m...-new-fiat-500/

So, another small car with style.

I'm not trying to win a war here. Just to make the point that for many of the buying community, there are more choices and options in the marketspace Mini used to have pretty much to itself.

Matt

 

Are Hondas still on the road? I swear I haven't seen one in ages. (TIC)

 

I've seen pictures of that; it's neat. Now, if they start building those, and bring out an Abarth version...

 

Ah, those. Mmmm.... I really don't see it, though.

 

Hard to tell from that picture...but it looks like a Dodge Neon!

 

Ugh! Hardly.






What an original 500 looked like:

 

Eh..... the side of the road would be littered with 'em. They are still Fiats, after all.

 

Here both Fiats and Renaults were POSs. But in Europe, you still see old ones on the road, going just fine. And while it's easy to dis the brands, my 75 spider has some nice features that I wish were on the Mini:

A Arm front suspension.
Al brake calipers
Rear/Middle battery placement IN FRONT of the rear axle.

When I had it running good, it was surely a hoot to drive.

I think the 500 will have one serious advantage to the Mini, the windshield is more sloped, so less cracks in it!

Matt

 

I prefer the BMW Minis to keep their styling the same. Luv the way people stare at my Cooper.

 

Totally tongue-in-cheek, Matt. After all, to paraphrase: Those who drive glass MINIs shouldn't throw stones. For some reason, some of those European cars just didn't fare well after the boat trip. You go to France, and Renaults are like Accords over here.

Yeah, in looking at those two pics, I noticed that despite the retro styling of the Fiat, it's windshield is still sloped like a modern car. Maybe they learned something from the MINI.

And that Abarth rendering (which I hadn't seen before a few minutes ago) looks REALLY cool.

 

I dont see that at all. VW sold 29,000,000 beetles in there first generation. MINI sold about 1,200,000. A million cars does not an icon make. It might for Brits but here in the US, hardly. BUT, everyone knows a Beetle on sight.

That should be obvious. Its part of the indoctrination. Just like when a mag doesn't say glowing things about a MINI ... its a bad magazine. People need to defend their choices.

Ahh, but Matt that was all about insurance. Insurance killed the muscle cars, Kids could no longer buy them. Bye Bye Mustang. It wasn't about "size", it was all about $$$

And a Mustang IS an icon. I have no idea how many have been sold, but its undeniable that virtually anyway instantly recognzies the Mustang Logo. Can the same be said about the MINI wings? Hardly.

How is that. $22K is pretty cheap for a MCS brand new. If people choose to spend their money on options that are "wants" rather than "needs", that is their problem. $22K is far below the price of an average car sold in the US.

Hmm, well they have become ubiquitious. Three years ago there were a few, today, I see them everyday. They are no longer special, no longer unique, and worse, very few I see daily have unique graphics. Most are bland, monocolor. By selling more, they are becoming mainstream and blending right in.

The only reason you might not mistake one for another car is merely the size. If it were a foot bigger, it would blend right in w/out graphics thats pop.

I would never say everywhere. Blue Skies wondered why MINI owners on NAM bashed other cars. Go to other forums you will see MINIs bashed as gay/clown cars. Yes, "some" MINI owners love them but your looking at a small percentage of MINI owners ... not the vast majority who never log onto a forum and you have no idea what they think.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, only to bring some perspective to all this. Car bashing is everywhere

 

On doing a little research on this fiat I came across this Utube comparo with the 350Z:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipq7u...elated&search=

 

shows theres more than one way to go fast, and light cars are one way to do it!

But I don't think the Fiat was stock!

Matt

 

I've removed my comments.