There have been a few posts kicking around on this subject but it's high time it had its own thread. I'm referring to the Graham Robson article in the latest (Jul-Aug) issue of MC2, where he claims that bordom is setting in with respect to the architecture of the MINI and seems to advocate for radical changes to the style of future MINIs.

Am I missing something? I am in complete disagreement. Maybe perspectives are a little different "across the pond" but the singularly unique and relatively consistent look to the MINI is a great attraction to this owner. I like being part of the "team" and am happy to wear the "uniform." How can one argue with the consistent increase in popularity and sales? Frankly, I'd feel disenfranchised if the new model year MINIs were so different from the "classic" BMW-designed MINIs that they lost their stylistic connectivity. I like being part of a distinctive MINI community driving a distinctive car. In fact, for similar reasons I'm not at all a fan of the plodding Clubman or the MINI-SUV concept because I think these alternative designs do and will fall hopelessly short of the existing MINI design standard and they take away from the artistic perfection of the core architecture.

Mr. Robson cites the VW as an example of a design that people thought "could go on indefinitely" and had success chiefly because of its low cost. Well, hasn't the design persevered? The classic VWs are extremely sought after, and the new VWs continue to be quite popular despite the fact that they are not cheap and the style has remained relatively consistent. My guess is that a radical design change is not even a remote thought among VW management given the success of the car. It is its unique and instantly recognizable look and feel that give it is long-lasting appeal--just like the MINI.

I hope the MINI management team focuses their energy on improving those areas where their customers have spoken the loudest (e.g., center console instrumentation, drivetrain reliability, etc.) and avoid making design changes just for the sake of change. Gert Hildebrand, you are the man...please hold your ground!

 

it's kind of like one review i read that said they were not a big fan of the toggle switches. i love the toggle switchesand to me that's one thing that sets MINIs apart from the rest of the cars. i guess that reviewer wants the same old switches for the windows and locks that we been using for a long time.

 

boredom? thats funny...I don't know about you guys, but I personally don't want to drive a civic with a Mini logo glued onto it. I actually think the current mini should look MORE like the old ones...

 

Completely agree! I was very surprised when I read his article... If I'd wanted a VW, I'd have bought one. The Mini is unique and not a car for everyone, and if they try to make it for everyone it'll be just another....well VW.

 

My .02 cents. A Mini is one of the few small cars on the road that doesn't look like it began life as an egg.. I believe Mr. Robson misses the point entirely.

BMW did a great job reintroducing the Mini.. Just like Ford did a great job with the latest version of the Mustang (1970 clone), Dodge is fixin' to do with the new Challenger, and GM might do with the new Camaro - if they don't go belly-up first.

If we all wanted to drive eggs, we'd be driving Nissan Sentras..

 

Begs the question.... Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

is that while the Mini is still distinctive, it surely doesn't enjoy the distinctivenss of market position that it used to. There are many more cars that are competing at the price point, with admittedly different stylistic mixes than the Mini, but compelling commercial products none the less.

Also, there is some regional bias in action as well. Here in CA, I can be at an intersection with 4 other Minis at it! And that's not even a rare occurance. So the car isn't as "uncommon" as it used to be, at least in areas with lots of cars sold.

But there is also a good question in "Is the Mini brand distictive enough to carry on with model diversification or is it just a niche player?"

Any clue?

Matt

 

Make me a Mini pickup truck like I saw at BeaveRun for the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix. Out of a new Mini. With a longer bed so I can actually haul stuff in it. Vary the line like the original did! Yeah, eventually it'll come to a sputtering stop (the new designs that is) and we'll have something elise (oops- was that Freudian?).

 

What’s with these derogatory insinuations about an egg?

 

 

You'll have to trade in your MINI or exige it for something elise!

 

My feelings, exactly.

Every European "Hot Hatch" comparo out there there are 4 or five aero-eggs and the MINI. Every other hot hatch looks like every other. BORING!

No MINI looks alike (or at least, not for very long). And no MINI is mistaken for anything else but a MINI.

 

Why can't it do both? It can diversify and is. But, it's also a niche player. When you sell less than 50K cars/year for the entire car line, your not mainstream. Then again, it is a regional thing. MINIs are now ubiquitious here. Not so 3 years ago.

So I dont see why they can't diversify but they do fill a niche

 

The MINI is iconic, as is the VW Beetle. Regardless of ones feelings about the Beetle, both the old generation and the now almost 10 year old reincarnation, it is as loved by its owners as are our MINIs. Guess I just don't understand why so many on NAM have to bash other cars to make a point about the MINIs. I am probably as crazy about my................HONDA....... as I am about Tawanda. I marvel at the engineering of the 8th gen Honda Civic coupes. Little engineering marvels, and fun.
(OK, twist my arm and I'll tell you I am more crazy about Tawanda). Anyway.......

I would hope that BMW doesn't dink with the MINI. MINIs, even though seemingly ubiquitious on the West Coast at least, are like nothing else on the road. Like Beetles and the 'Stang, they have history on their side. I'm at a point in my life where I can afford to have a MINI as a second car, and I get a big cheesy smile on my face thinking that I can depend on MINI remaining a styling and performance icon. The Clubman will also be a historic design, but a 4WD MINI? Please say no.

So, my conclusion is that, according to the passion on NAM and solid increasing sales numbers, MINI has what it takes to remain a cult niche product for years. Hopefully, bottom line $s (or Euros) won't sway the BMW powers to be to redesign a wonderful part of automotive history. Given that BMW is still a privately held company (am I correct?), they have the ability to do what is "right" rather than worrying about stock holders' whims.

My nickel's worth. Also, after writing this and posting my list of autos owned last night, I now can say that the MINI is my absolute motoring favorite.

 

I think the article was wayyyy off base. Yeah, cars like Sauruses and Tables need to be radically changed every few years because they were boring everycars to begin with. The MINI design is classic. That is the whole point of it. Plus, the article's reference to the VW made no sense. It has persevered since WWII. The reason the original Beatle finally succumbed was not due to people being bored with it's design, but simply because it would cost too much to modernize (safety, electronics). I think the article had to be printed just to generate controversy and, therefore, publiscity for the magazine.

Besides, I would not trust BMW to change the MINI radically, as long as Mr. Jo Bangle(s) is there. Look what he has done to BMW. He's turned them into old Nissan look-alikes.

 

Let's see the original Mini went on sale in 1959 and remained pretty much unchanged untill it last rolled off the line in 2000! It also sold well even in it's last years-no it didn't sell in huge numbers but the fact that car designed in 1955 still sold 40 years later speaks volumes. Change for change only-or "shaking it up" never seems to work in the auto industry.

 

there's no arguing that the Mini isn't as "new" as it used to be.

The new beetle is selling, but it's just one model in the VW arsanal. Think of VW with just bug like varients. Would it be as successfull as it has been in the past?

There are some natural limits if the car is going to stay a niche player. That means the small number of dealerships stay with us forever, and this is surely a long term drag on the brand, between distance to service and quality thereof once you get there.

Mentioning some of the icons, the Mustang almost went away in the 70s, if you look as sales figures of the 73 they sucked. The 74 sales figures (Mustang II) skyrocketed and saved the marque, but with a car that many Mustangers cringe at when it's listed as a Mustang.

If Mini is going to be with us for a long time, they'll have to come out with enough models that appeal to a larger market. And I'm sure that these models will have a many a Mini purist gagging.

As far as bordom setting in, I do see it come and go in waves. But to those that say the Mini is a uniqe car without rival, you could say the same of Yugo! I don't know about you all, but I can easily tell the difference between a Volvo C30, a Mazdaspeed 3 and a VW GTI. And while the C30 and GTI don't appeal to me at all, the MS3 looks to be a gas of a car!

Hind-site will tell more in a decade or so!

Matt

 

The Mustang almost went away because Ford DID change it. It went from a cool pony car to a bigger and bigger, two-door family car, just as did the Charger. MINI was always intended to be a relatively low volume seller. Hence the limited number of dealerships, most (if noit all) paired to a BMW dealership. Again, the vehicle is intended to be part of the MINI heritage. It is built, marketed and bought that way. It is not simply a model in a car line up.

Also, the Clubman is coming and it appears MINI may be making a crossover and other "things" --- so they can leave the Coopers alone and still have other toys for the bored.

 

The mini cooper could hardly be classified as as a bland car, and thats the charm of it. You dont see honda owners wave as they pass each other.

 

I think this will be a debate without end. Those that don't have a wandering eye toward other cars will maintain that the Icon is secure, and those with a wandering eye will comment on how the marque isn't as compelling as it used to be.

Here are some things I've been thinking of....

T-bucket hot rod. ~$14k in parts plus a drivetrain and paint.
Factory Five Racing Cobra clone, ~$20k in parts plus paint, and you can buy them done off e-bay for less than it costs to build them!

Now, these are some unique cars at lower prices than a new Mini! The Mazdaspeed 3 seems like a nice idea because of the space and we now have 2 kids. The Mazdaspeed Miata seems to be a kick too, and if you ask JennB, much easier to own than a Mini.

The growth of the Mustang happened over time, none were as small as the 64-66 untill the Mustang II. They didn't stay a small sporty car unitl it became a boat. And FWIW, a 73 converable with a 351 is a hell of a nice freeway cruiser!

Matt

 

You'd know that this isn't the case. He's a british auto historian and expert, and has more perspective on the Mini than most alive today.

I'm a Mini owner, have been for a long time (At lest with regard to the new Mini). I just don't get this notion that the Mini fills some magic market spot any more than many other cars do.
It's also a fact that the uniqueness of market segment has been seriously erroded by other offerings. before it used to be pretty much the only small luxo car with good handling and utility. Not so any more. The performance envelope has been clipped by other cars. There's no Mini 4 door, (heck, the Honda Si can be had as a 2 door or a 4 door. Wife wants one of the latter!) And while the Clubman will give some more room in the back, it's no 4 door and those that load car seats in and out of cars will surely know the difference.

I'm sure that if you're of the opinion that the Mini redefined the modern automobile then nothing I or anyone else can say would convince you otherwise or that the brand will have a tought time staying new, while carrying the name forward with all the evolution in design and technology that the future will bring, will be a hard thing to do. Especially when a significant portion of the small number of dealers don't seem to have gotten the idea of what proper customer service is.

It's also interesting to note that many of the "Mini is never boring" camp also have decided opionions about what should and shouldn't be in the Mini offerings. But if Mini is to make other cars, then they will have to embrase just those very things (like 4 wheel drive) that make many roll their eyes at the obvious corporate sell out.

Let's say it stays a niche player. Why would it stay in business if all it does is sell X cars a year with little or no growth? Sad truth is that if you're not growing, you're yesterdays news in the marketplace. Right now we're lucky. There's still more demand for the Mini than supply, (but there aren't that Minis sold in the US anyway...) so the brand can grow pretty much whatever it does. What avout 3 years from now when that's not the case? I guess the good news is that dealer mark-ups will finally go away.

Matt

 

Yes, and all these arguments are exactly why every other car looks like every other car. MINI is for people who want something different. That doesn't mean there can't be added options. The article was clearly predominantly referring to it's styling. No one can seriously argue that BMW has not seriously updated the features of the car from the Mini days.

 

I guess I don't get it - the cycle is that you want to sell more cars, so you produce more cars, and thus, more cars are seen on the roads. The issue isn't a "problem" - it's success! The MINI is loved because of all the things that make it stand out from other cars on the road, and so people buy. Whether they decide to take part in the culture, or hobby, or whatever you want to call it, has nothing to do with it - I guess unless you are part of the culture and feel like everyone should subscribe (I don't feel that way - some people just want a car to drive, and if they like the MINI and it helps keep the brand sustainable, then whatever, no skin off my nose).

I think all of these "complaints" are merely success points to most people who don't see it from the enthusiast angle.

The bottom line is that the MINI is successful because of it's uniqueness. Success -> more sales -> more MINIs on the road.

 

I think Paul Pottinger in last October's Carguide (Australia) described in a nutshell that aspect of the MINI that will keep it alive and well for years to come:

"BMW call its only front-wheel-drive the "only premium small car". You might wonder how certain other top end Euro hatch makers would respond, but it’s true that nothing else is quite the same.

The hatches to which Mini is predictably compared are go-fast versions developed from humble shopping trolleys, whereas a Mini has no utilitarian relative. Yes, there are variants of more or less power, but in the main, a Mini is a Mini.

It exists for no other reason than to provide buyers with a style statement that’s tolerably entertaining to drive and it has worked to the extent that 80 per cent of owners are new to the BMW group."

 

My largest concern is that they're pricing themselves right out of the niche they created..............as many have done before them.