Hey Greg

No, you cannot just change the rear sway bar if you want to stay in H Stock class. You would have to do the entire SS+ change, which includes different part numbers for sways and springs than the SS, but then you can use ANY front sway bar you want, including aftermarket, and still be legal in H Stock. The front sway bar is 'free', as are the shocks, the springs and the rear sway are not.

If you don't want to be in H Stock then you can do a lot more or a lot less given the restirctions in that class.

Hope this clarifies for you.

HStockAugs
UtahSCCA
2nd, 1st,1st,1st, Nationals Next Year

 

Here is the story on SS and SS+. All of my information comes from MINI dealers spring tables, and spring dynos.
The SS+ has the following parts different than a regular Cooper.
Sways- Front and Rear
Struts- Front and Rear
Springs- Front and Rear
Of this list the only parts that can NOT be changed and remain legal for SCCA Stock class are the springs and the rear sway.
To get a legal SS+ car all you need to change is the springs and the rear sway.
Now the tricky part is finding the correct springs for your car. Here is what I did- go to your dealer, or call Classic MINI in Mentor, Ohio, tell them you want SS+ Springs for your car, even if your car did not come form the factory with the SS+. The dealer will ask for your vehicles VIN, and what options are on your car to include-
DSC
Head Airbag
Sunroof
NavSYS
Harmon Kardon
Stowage Package
Headlight Cleaner
Foglights
6 Disc Changer
When the dealer asks about SS+ tell them YES.
The dealer will then get a part number and order the springs. Have the dealer print the spring table and give it to you. It will have the options checked off and the part numbers listed. Take the invoice as proof that you purchased the springs, as the springs have no part number listed on them. The springs will have paint marks on them that correspond to a part number, but I have not been able to find the complete listing. The spring rates between the SS+ and regular Sports Suspension are about 10-15% stiffer.
Labor to swap out springs should be in the $400 range, I'm guessing since I do all my own work. The rear sway will be done while the springs and struts are off the car.
The rear sway on a Cooper with SS+ and an MCS are the same part number, in fact there are only two part numbers for rear sways. The easy way to get the rear sway is to buy one off a MCS driver that upgraded his rear bar to an aftermarket.
The only reason I went to SS+ is for the larger rear sway, the springs were done only to remain legal. In fact the larger rear with the smaller front have made the car neutral handling, and I'm just a few pounds of tire pressure away from tail-happy. If you have a SS+ equipped car, the easy way to reduce understeer is to put the regular front sway on.
All my information is based on numeropus phone calls, trips to the dealer and spring dynoing all Cooper springs I can get my hands on. Hope this helps.

 

Great info MX.... lucky for me I already have SS+

Greg.... I know alot of the class rules for SCCA are confusing... sounds to me you are just out to run local events and have a dam good time doing so... with that in mind do whatever you want to your car.... run whatever class and have a ball....

STS is a street tire class (so you don't need to buy race tires) and you can change springs swaybars front and rear... use camber plates ect....


Keep in mind National level drivers running H stock are not all using SS+ some are running the reg. SS package you already have.... testing has shown the setups to be close in performance!!! very close. really the best package may depend on driving style and what you are used too...

I went with SS+ (after much thinking) for 2 reasons....

1. Most of my autocross experience is in cars with modified (stiff) suspensions... so the SS+ feels right to me.

2. even though the front bar is bigger on the SS+ cars I belive this may help combat understeer by helping to eliminate positive camber gain due to front body roll... (stock MINIs are already negative camber challenged) only time will tell if I am right on this one....


Finnaly I am considering developing some neat cheap and trick parts to open up options on front sway bar tuning.... it is a long way off for now but I have a few Ideas....

 

Hello MX5

To change my SS to SS+ on my 2003 MC cost me more like $1400 at BMW/Mini of Murray in Utah. But I insisted on it before I'd buy the car off the showroom at MSRP, so I probably lost some negotiation points there.

The technician said changing the front sway was a real pain and took most of the labor time, suggested that if I wanted to change it back to find someone else to do it...

If anyone wants the SS front or rear sway bar let me know, I still have them. Lost the stock SS springs in an overzealous garage clean out a few months ago.

SSPlusAugs

 

WELCOMEAugs! Good to see you on MCO. I have seen your name a lot on the other MINI site. I have heard the same regarding the labor for the front. Some of the vendors out there should do it for much less than $1400. Couple of questions for you- Are you going to Nationals this year? If you are I am looking foward to dodging cones with you. I have the Petersburg PRO this weekend and am really excited to enter this level of competition. We on the east coast also have the National Tour in DC next month, then a rest until Topeka.
Second- Do you still have the SS+ Struts you replaced with Konis? If you do I may want to buy them, if they are for sale of course.
Good luck this year!

 

Thanks everyone for all the information and encouragement.

Now how about some advice on wheels? :smile:

I can't seem to find many choices in non-MINI wheels that have an offset of 44 or 45. When I factor in weight (15 pounds or less) , price (reasonable) and style (5 spokes and preferably white) I can't find anything. Anyone with ideas? I don't really have a preference for size, 15" or 16". And legally they probably need to be 5.5 or 6.5 wide, right? So far, AKTires (sp?) Monza wheel comes closest to my requirements. What's the consensus on 7" rims? What is the ideal width, regardless of rules?

All advice is much appreciated.

 

The lightest 15" stock MINI wheel is the Imola, aks R81, aka 8 Hole. It weighs in at 12# and is available in white. There was two sets on Ebay yesterday and they are a good price. Buy it now for $300, but the market should be a little less $200 seems better. The lightest 16" stock MINI wheel is the X-Lite, aka R84. There are always a few in the marketplace and they are about $500 a set.
Aftermarket wheels in legal sizes are a different story. AKs Monza is fairly light and reasonably priced. SSR is making a SSR Comp R which is the wheel that the Monza copies and will be about 4# lighter, but almost twice the price, and is not yet available. Enkei also made a legal sized wheel, but it is out of production and they go fast as they fit the Miatas requirement for light and correct size. You can always have custom wheels made but the price will be very high. Companies like Kodiak, Jongbled (sp?) and Keizer are some of the industry standards.
Size be damned, it gets easier, but pricier. The best bang for the buck in a light wheel is the Kosei K1 available at the tire rack. Size should be 16x7 or 15x7. For really light wheels try Volk TE-37s or SSR Comps, pricey but light, the Volks have a reputation for being stronger than the SSRs, but Volks could be hard to find. Hope this helps, you may try reposting on the Tires and Wheels forum, and check miata.net classifieds as well.

 

>>WELCOMEAugs! Good to see you on MCO. I have seen your name a lot on the other MINI site. I have heard the same regarding the labor for the front. Some of the vendors out there should do it for much less than $1400. Couple of questions for you- Are you going to Nationals this year? If you are I am looking foward to dodging cones with you. I have the Petersburg PRO this weekend and am really excited to enter this level of competition. We on the east coast also have the National Tour in DC next month, then a rest until Topeka.
>>Second- Do you still have the SS+ Struts you replaced with Konis? If you do I may want to buy them, if they are for sale of course.
>>Good luck this year!


I will be running the SEDIV series in Atlanta and Nashville... and you will see me at NATs too.... it will be my firs time at Nationals and I am really looking forward to seeing how I stack up to the big dogs!!!

 

Hey Mx5!

Nationals next year. I'll be local this year because the only tour event near me, at Wendover, Utah in June, I'll be at a family reunion in Minnesota. Wendover's a great site by the way, 10 acres of sticky concrete and the casinos about a mile away. Next year I'll be ready to travel a little more around the country.

I haven't replaced the front struts on my Mini, just the rear shocks. So far I haven't felt the need to do anything to the front over what the SS+ has given me. I'm keeping the OEM shocks to put back on if I ever decide to trade this one in for Mini's Next Big Thing.

The wheel deal....the R-84 16 x 6.5" with 205 Hoosiers is what I run unless it's extremely wet, then I run an older set of Yokohama A520s on another OEM wheel. I'm waiting like everyone else for the SSR. I suspect when it comes out I'll shod it with 215 Hoosiers, and I hope all that comes together for next years Nationals.

The 7 hole 15 inch is a good set up too, but I like the extra width the 16 x 6.5 gives me.

UtahAugs

 

The Wendover Prosolo is July 19-20 :smile:

 

>>I will be running the SEDIV series in Atlanta and Nashville... and you will see me at NATs too.... it will be my firs time at Nationals and I am really looking forward to seeing how I stack up to the big dogs!!!

The Petersburg Pro start tomorrow and the Big Dogs will be out in force. Matt Murray HS Nat. Champ, Mark Chiles, Richard West STS ProSolo Champ, Tim Aro and Eric Peterson will all be there. Other than Matt Murray the others are in the Richmond area and I have them to gauge myself against, let's just say I'm in the 90% than makes the top 10% possible.

 

Correect me if I'm wrong (like you wouldn't). You can change the front sway bar, shocks, rims (same size and offset) tires, exhaust, and air filter, brake pads,.. All of the stuff you might change in normal upkeep. You can't change the rear sway bar. If your reasonably new to autocross I wouldn't worry about any of that stuff. The cool thing about the MINI is how competitive it is out of the box. The only change I plan on making is maybe a set of tires and wheels to use for autox.

 

oops, you are right, I was wrong twice, my reunion is in July.

Something about that time of year being prime tractor pulling season in central Minnesota.

FeelingMinnesotaugs

 

I run a Cooper S in SCCA also. The only changes I have made are a new air filter and a set of wheels and race tires. I am running near the top of my class. This is especially good since this is my first year in the series. Besides, it is just too damn fun.

Abe

 

>>The Petersburg Pro start tomorrow and the Big Dogs will be out in force. Matt Murray HS Nat. Champ, Mark Chiles, Richard West STS ProSolo Champ, Tim Aro and Eric Peterson will all be there. Other than Matt Murray the others are in the Richmond area and I have them to gauge myself against, let's just say I'm in the 90% than makes the top 10% possible.

Mark Chiles is also signed up for the ATL SEDIV event... and Jeff Jacobs from Philly. I have no idea how close I will be able to get to Mark.... I am very much looking forward to seeing how I do.... If I can stay close I will be very happy esp since I will have had only one event in the car prior.

 

Mark ran GS at Petersburg and Jeff Jacobs (HS) was secind to my co driver by .040.

 

FYI - Atlanta Region SEDiv #2

So far (4 June 2K3) there are:

3 MCS out of 14 drivers in G-Stock
Jean Lambkin
Britt Laughlin (1st Place SEDiv #1 @ Laurens Michelin)
David Templeton (me.... 11th Place "last" SEDiv #1, my first Div... not that I'm making excuses... but yeah, I got spanked)



5 MC out of 11 Drivers in H-Stock
Jason Vehige
Greg Lee
Jeff Jacobs
Karl Rickert (SEDiv Steward Extrodinaire)
Mark Chiles



1 MC in H-Stock Ladies
Brenda Ashburn

Looks like most of us are using Hoosier or Falken tires, the majority being Hoosier. We also represent 6 different states.

Look forward to seeing all of you in 'round about a week in Hotlanta

D
-V--V-

 

Look for Peter "The Blue Potato" from RSpeed at the event as well. I wish I had more time to travel around the country competeting- read getting my a$$ handed to me- in AutoX. Mark and Jeff are very fast, I expect them to be near the top in Topeka.
I'll be at the Beachcombers Corvette Club event in Va Beach. It is great to see vettes get humbled by 115 hp.
Good Luck to all and enjoy.

 

>>
>>Looks like most of us are using Hoosier or Falken tires, the majority being Hoosier. We also represent 6 different states.
>>
>>Look forward to seeing all of you in 'round about a week in Hotlanta
>>
>>D
>>-V--V-
>>

LOL yeah I am the lone Kuhmo runner... Could not quite afford the Hoosires this year... I will just have to try to keep up




_________________
Jason

 

The MINI that won the Atwater National Tour was running on Kuhmo's. It also placed second at the Pro Solo the following weekend. So don't be too discouraged by running Kuhmo's. They might not be as popular as the Hooiser's but can still get the job done given the right set of circumstances. It will be interesting to see how they fare at the Wendover Pro Solo since they'll be nicely scrubbed in and the MINI will have some additional toys from the previois events. Anyway, depending on how they do there will determine wether I switch to Hoosiers for the "Big Game". Another nice thing about Kuhmo........Fast contingency payments(about 2 weeks) See Everyone there.

Stuart
HS 47

 

Stuart, congrats on the fine showings at Atwater. I will be in moving to SoCal during/after Nationals and am looking foward to new challenges, i.e. getting beaten by different people. The advantage the Hoosiers have over the Kuhmos is the 215/40 16 size unless you are squezzing 225s in the Cooper. I have Kuhmos I use for the local events, and the 205/45 16 Ecsta is a great tire, in fact I had to be talked into buying Hoosiers by my co driver. When he buys two, then wins two the price is a little easier to take. Contigency payouts for Hoosier can be picked up with Hoosier Tom at the next event.
What additional toys? Do tell.
See you in Topeka.

 

>>The MINI that won the Atwater National Tour was running on Kuhmo's. It also placed second at the Pro Solo the following weekend. So don't be too discouraged by running Kuhmo's. They might not be as popular as the Hooiser's but can still get the job done given the right set of circumstances. It will be interesting to see how they fare at the Wendover Pro Solo since they'll be nicely scrubbed in and the MINI will have some additional toys from the previois events. Anyway, depending on how they do there will determine wether I switch to Hoosiers for the "Big Game". Another nice thing about Kuhmo........Fast contingency payments(about 2 weeks) See Everyone there.
>>
>>Stuart
>>HS 47
>>

Well that gives me some hope..... did you have yours shaved or are they full depth?? Mine are not shaved so that for local events I can change tires at home and drive in.... I figured by late in the season they will keep getting faster.... In my experience Kuhmos can handle wayyyy more heat cycles than Hoosiers!!! Also the new K6 compound has a noticeable increase in grip compared to the older K8 (?) compound... So far I am happy with them, and for the Divisional coming up my Pressures will be much better than my last (first) event in the MINI.....

 

Believe it or not but at the Atwater Tour my Kuhmo tires were almost full tread. I had autocrossed on them once before using them at Atwater. Granted, the first day at Atwater was rainy and while everyone else in HS was switching back and forth with their rain tires I didn't have the option which allowed me to focus on the task at hand. Either way, the Kuhmos were probably the best tire on that day only because it could handle the wet part of the track just as well as the dry. Sunday was a different story because the weather was much nicer. The Kuhmos faired pretty well against the Hoosier even though Michael Butler pulled off a very fast time on his last run that I do not believe I could have matched with the Kuhmo's.

I like Kuhmo's mainly because they allow me to keep things simple. I normally drive them to local events which makes being at the event that much more relaxing and gives me more time to focus on learning the course. The Kuhmo's definately give up width, profile and probably weight to the Hoosiers but still seem to have their place. If I end up swtiching to Hoosier it will only be due to the size in which the Hoosiers can be had.

New Toys??? On Monday I'll have my new Exhaust(RSpeed), Magnecores and I just put in a UniFilter. Not sure if I'll be gaining a whole lot but it shouldn't hurt. Anyway, it's such a fun car to drive it deserves a few presents...; )

Stuart
HS47

 

RSpeed exhaust rules, it is the exhaust I have on my car. That makes the RSpeed exhaust with the following showings- 1st Atwater Tour, 2nd Atwater ProSolo, 1st Petersburg ProSolo. Now all we need is a good showing at the DC Tour.

 

Unfortunately I have not installed the RSpeed exhuast yet. At Atwater I was "bone" stock minust the wheels and tires......

Stuart
HS 47