I have wanked on the search function here for the last week looking for advice on how to best prep my 2008 Justa for my third track day at the beautiful Inde track in Wilcox, AZ. My first trip out I was so lucky to have a member set me up with a set of 17" wheels with Nitto NTO1 slicks and the second trip I challenged the track on a hot day with my street 16" BFG Sport Comp 2's and simply melted them, going off by midday. However, I did feel that 3rd gear was especially stronger on the drive out of the corner on 16" wheels over the 17". I am fairly certain the wheels were heavier, 24-25lbs each but they were very strong looking BBS.

Now, I see that Toyo 888's are acceptable tires for the road courses as well as the Nitto. I think I can find all sizes for those two choices in 17" but the 16" size is very limited.

Now the sticker shock comes in when I try to find a set of lightweight wheels just for either of these tires to spare my street ones and why I am posting this request for advice from those that have gone before.

I have my stock wheels which I think are the Bridge Spoke 94, white and lightweight 16" - I think they are a touch over 20lbs?

Tire Rack recommended Kosei K1 in 17x7 with Toyo 888 in 215/45/17 for around $1,800 Nobody local can touch that deal, and a few other internet places are close with similar wheels, some lighter and some heavier but 16-19 pounds in 17" was my baseline. I don't see why I couldn't go to a 7.5" wide rim, but nearly all were 7".

Of course, the 16" wheels were cheaper in the light weights and I know the brakes fit that. I believe I have the previous years JCW brakes which prevent me from looking at 15" wheels - is that right?

A one day effort on 17" left me with the impression that my little Justa accelerates better on 16" wheels, although never at any time did I feel that the suspension was overwhelmed by either wheel set because the track is so smooth and even.

Sorry for long post, any advice? Almost $2,000 is a lot of money to me and my temptation is to keep my wheels and just slap a set of Toyo Proxes R888 tires in 205/55ZR16 just before race day and drive them the rest of the summer in Arizona hoping it doesn't rain!

 

I see what you are trying to do... maybe you can find something like this...

EXAMPLE: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Cooper-JCW-Wheels-and-Tires-/261719660345?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item3cefb51739&vxp=mtr
Pick something like these up for a huge savings, then spend the money on the dedicated Track Day Tires...

The problem with running the Toyo Proxes R888 tires in 205/55ZR16 around for the rest of the summer, is do you really want to use up your Track Day rubber as a Daily Driver?

I think you can get the Track Day Wheels in the car, with a jack and support tools (cooler with lots of drinks, it gets hot out there), then at the track swap wheels run the track, then when it's time to go home, put your street tires back on... this also gives you the opportunity to to really check your brakes out to make sure you still have serviceable pads left before hitting the highway for home...

I hooked my neighbor up with some Tire Rack Wheels like the: 16x7 MSW Type 25 Matte Silver Painted with 195/55R16 RF Toyo Proxes T1R Blackwall tires without TPM Sensors for about $720.00 ... the same wheels with the Toyo Proxes R888 205/55ZR16 would be a $1200.00 package...

No matter what you decide to do, best of luck out there...

Motor on!

 

Welcome the sticker shock world of tracking your car...

As for tires, an other option is to go with an Extreme Performance tire like the Dunlop ZIIs or Hancook R-S3. I run the R888s in the dry and the ZIIs in the rain. But in the dry the ZIIs come very close to matching the R888s at $80 less a tire. The Hancooks might actually be better than the ZIIs in the dry and they are even less expensive. The other benefit of using a street tire is that they will last longer.

And yes, get a dedicated set of wheels and tires for the track. I pack 4 in my MINI along with tools, jack, etc, no problem.

 

Somehow I will get dedicated wheels for the track, any advice with the Justa for choosing 16" over 17" ? While I am used to the acceleration and gear/rpm of 16" wheels on the street, I was starting to get used to carrying more corner speed on the 17" slicks and wonder if soon I would have no longer felt the need for downshifting to 2nd? The track has 36 turns and I am averaging 70mph with just one full straight and two "twisty" flat out straights. Dropping to 40mph on a corner makes me want to reach for 2nd on the Justa, but 45mph does not. Oh, and the course is hilly, lots of altitude changes along with camber. With my inexperience, it feels like the 17" wheels kept me in too high of a gear although I went faster on every lap with slicks.

Also, with 17" wheels someday I could install larger brakes, those little pots get pretty hot on Arizona track days even with light use since the Justa don't have much power to waste on braking.

 

just want to chime in that i prfer 16s for justas.. u can adjust the "gearing" by selecting different profile tires.. you shouldn't need much bigger brakes.. i'd try to max out the current setup with racing pads first.. maybe carbotechs? which i have for sale cough

 

In the choices for tires, the fewest exist for the 16" wheels. The most exist for 15 and 17". For a base MINI you should be on 15". These give you the biggest bang for the buck. I know of a verrrrry quick MINI that runs these. As you step from 15 to 16 to 17" wheels your car will a bit slower with the added weight. This will be more noticeable with a Justa. And the cost of tires goes up.

You say you think your MINI has the previous year's JCW brakes (these are the Gen II's S brakes, if they are), but it sounds like you are not sure. A quick measurement of the front brake rotor will tell you if 15s will fit. If they are just over 11.5" (294mm, I think) then you have the Gen 2 S brakes and it is not likely you will find 15" wheels to fit. If it is the smaller 11" MINI rotor then a 15" wheel will fit. Even in stock wheels the 15" Holies weigh only 11 lbs, but they are only 6.5" wide. However you can still fit a 205-50 street tire on those which would be a good option especially for a novice.
And you can pick them up used cheap on NAM or elsewhere.

 

About the brake pads...get a real track pad. As you get better and are braking later and harder, you will exceed the capabilities of the stock or so-called street/track pads.

The Carbotechs that kyoo has are the best for a MINI. I would jump on them.

 

Got the wheel off and measured less than 11" on the front rotor, so it looks like I can use 15" wheels. I think that is the way I will go, they are cheaper and lighter so I can afford new ones. The brake pads I use are EBC Reds, on this track at least they seem to work fine, and a great improvement on the street. Not much braking needed at Inde for an underpowered car and the 30 minute sessions do make them hot, but again, I'm not really hitting them that hard since I can drive all but 3 corners out of 36 flat out.

I guess I am a little disappointed I don't have the upgraded brakes but the timing on getting track wheels cheaper is very fortunate. I really don't see me racing another course than Inde any time soon, so dialing it in for one track on track days rather than real racing is a valid goal for me. I got that competition bug out of my system racing sportbikes in the 80's and 90's. I am no stranger to the track just not in a car.

Did some Internet shopping and it looks like I can come in just over $1000 for 15x7 or 6.5 wheels and 205/50 track tires. Konig, Enkei, Motegi (12 lbs!)

 

I would not worry about the brakes on the MINI at this point. If you find that the red stuff pad are good, then the brakes are more than adequate. However, I would highly suggest investing in a better track pad. The yellow stuff pad is better and the Hawk HP plus pad is better yet. Honestly, there is no reason not to go to a full race pad. They are sooooo much better than street pads on the track, even for a novice.

What tires are you thinking of getting?

You are really going to love the lighter wheels and tires.

Also, when looking for wheels, go for something with less offset than the stock wheels. That is, a wheel with an ET of about 40mm (as compared to the stock 48mm) would be really good for the car.

Have fun...

 

Thanks for the advice guys, I am thrilled I can use 15" wheels. 15x7 is what I want for the track only, am looking closely at Nitto NTO1 and Toyo 888 in 205/50/15. I have used both brands before on cars but only the Nitto on race only type tires so I am still quite open to choices. Track day is March 28th, so I have some time.

Never have enough power on this twisty track to feel I need better brakes, that is it in a nutshell. The less I used the brakes on the borrowed slicks (NTO1), the faster I went. Vettes and Vipers are letting me pass them in the twistys after they see the only advantage they have is in the one single straight (we are not racing!). I have received direct compliments on the cornering speed of the Mini and the more subtle compliment of $80,000 cars sliding off the track behind me trying to keep up following my line. We will have another track day in July or August when it is 120 degrees out, I should try the Hawk pads then. This hilly terrain track with off camber corners really favors the light car and front wheel drivers the most, not a lot of braking going on here - just sawing the wheel back and forth with the accelerator pedal to the wall nearly every moment. The track record set by a F1 car in testing is 1:42 and I am at consistent 2:12 with street tires. In a Justa.

My street tires are awesome extreme summer HP but they can't handle the Arizona heat under track conditions for very long. Track tires are a must and with 15" wheels the budget is there.

I have seen 38-40mm offset on 15x7 wheels that I am considering, hope I don't have to jigger around with spacers but whatever I order will be in time hopefully to sort that out.

advice still greatly appreciated!

 

The Nittos are favorites of some MINI friends of mine. I use the R888s. I think either will be great for you.

I run 215-45x17 Dunlop ZIIs with a 38mm ET and no fitment problems. My 225-45x17 R888s did rub on the inside of the wheel well flare. Your 15" should be no problems with anything.

It sounds like you have the basic idea of how to go around a track quickly. It is fun to be able to best the "faster cars".

How about a freebee mod that is simple to do? There is a white plastic pin on the top of each of the strut towers on your car. Take that pin out, jack up the front of the car, loosen the 3 nuts holding the top of the strut to the tower and push the top of each strut inward about a 1/4". The added camber, while not much, is a noticeable improvement. If you take one of the nuts off you will see the camber adjustment slots that MINI will never tell you about. You will also need to tweak the toe-in. This changes the toe-in to be too inward. You will need to add about 2-3 flats worth of turn on the tie rod to correct that. The added camber is needed with the sticker tires.

Another options is a set of IE fixed camber plates, but that cost money

 

Interesting, let me get the 15" wheels on it and play around in a local canyon for a day tweaking the strut towers.

 

Just make sure you get wheels that will clear the brakes. Not all the 15" options will without spacers.

 

This is a big concern to me since it looks like I will need to order the wheels off the internet I can't test fit them.

http://www.customwheelsexpress.com/c...ls-p-421.html?

These are the wheels I am considering, although I am still open to other options and other internet sellers. From other pictures I have seen it looks like the spokes are really out there away from the caliper. 42mm offset. thoughts?

 

The SP10 in a 17" clears the Brembo brakes of the fJCW. TireRack sells Motegis so I'd give them a call. They might have a wheel "template" they can send you for the SP10s in a 15". Basically you print it out and hold it up against your brake rotor and it will give you an idea of how much space there is inside the spokes of the wheel. Tirerack will also have competitive pricing on the wheels. Heck they might already know if the 15" SP10 fits. I think Rudy is the name of the TireRack guy that normally posts on the various forums.

 

Tire Rack does not seem to offer the SP10 in 15",...

edit, got the TR chat guy on and he found it for me. Looks good

 

Tire Rack is nice too since they guarantee any wheels listed to fix your car will fit your car or you can return them.

Won't be stuck with a set of wheels that don't fit. I almost bought a new set of OZ's because I didn't think they would clear the GP brakes and saw them listed as a fitting wheel. Test fitted them and they actually fit. Very tight fit but they fit.

Should be a fun track day. We have started prepping cars already.

 

They seemed reluctant to recommend the SP10 wheels on my car, he felt the Sparco ones had the best chance to fit without spacers. They look almost identical in the pictures to me, but,...

If I risk having to use spacers I think I like the Kosei K1 TS model best. I do intend to install the stud conversion kit. Wonder where I can get spacers?

Placed the order, should have it by Feb 2. Kosei K1 TS Silver 15x7 , Offset 38mm, Backspace 5.39", 11.4lbs. Toyo Proxes R888 205/50ZR-15. BMW Stud Kit w/black bolts. I guess I need to start looking for spacers when they come in.

 

In a pinch you can get crappy 1/4" (6.35mm?) spacers in 4x100 at Advance/Autozone. Or you can buy them from most of the forum sponsors. Basically they're pretty easy to find if you do need them.

 

1/4" doesn't seem like much, I assume they are aluminum? What material would you recommend if I do in fact have to use spacers?

Honestly, I have enough lead time before track day, should I look at swapping the rotors out? 68k miles, I think I could justify it as long as I reuse my calipers. Thoughts?

 

Google helped me find this forum post from a few years ago, great stuff -

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ire-combo.html

 

Most spacers I've seen are aluminum. 1/4" should be enough to clear the calipers if the wheel is already close to fitting. Remember with spacers it's pretty likely you will need a stud conversion because the factory wheel bolts aren't long enough.

What are you hoping to gain from swapping the rotors? They have a minimum thickness. Have you measured yours? If I was swapping anything out it would be brake pads and fluid to higher temp fluid and more track oriented pads.

 

This is just about the setup that I would consider for my car if I hadn't gone with the 17" wheels with the Wilwood brakes that I have.

I am not sure why you think you will need spacers with these. The stock 16" wheels have a 48mm offset and clear the stock brakes. And some stock wheels are not brake friendly. At 38, each of your planned wheels are ~3/8" further outboard. I would think you won't have any problem.

I think that the BBKs are harder to fit than the stock brakes and this lists a lot of wheel/BBK fitments.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ated-list.html

there are really good, quality 5mm (~0.200 inch) spacers (H&R I believe) that you can get easily, if you need them. Of course you will need longer wheel bolts to use them.

 

Here is a start for spacers:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...cers-lugs.html

or:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-41...pacer-set.aspx

 

Sweet! Tire Rack got them delivered today! If they had been salmon from Alaska they would have still been frozen from the time I ordered them!

Anyway, they fit perfect, actually more clearance on the calipers than the stock wheels of 16" with 205/55's. No spacers needed at all, not even close. These are 15x7, the tires end up being a full two inches lower in height and about an inch wider. Results in a lot of of wheel well space and drops the whole car two inches. Real big difference right from turning the wheel at launch, very quick and light steering now more like a go-kart. I know I am going to be very happy with these, did a couple of easy u-turns, ran through the gears quickly a few times. Looks like maybe another 300 rpm increase everywhere but I have to check the mph with a cell phone because I think the speedo is now off. In sum, this lighter wheelset makes the car feel like it is no longer going up a steep hill all the time, does that make sense?

The stud conversion was simple, looks great. The Kosei K1 TS wheels did have an alignment ring but I would not call it plastic, exactly, more like a fused fiber nylon actually - I have seen material like this take a lot of heat in jet turbine engines, so I am not concerned. In fact I would rate the overall quality of these rims very highly and I don't even like silver or the style particularly but they are just light weight and relatively inexpensive race wheels to me. I will point out that the stud kit required a narrow wall 19mm socket otherwise it would mar the finish, not a big deal to me.

Bonus, the wheels came with a center cap which has an brushed aluminium center piece surrounded by chrome roundy bit. Comments both here on the forum and elsewhere indicated that some older versions may not have been able to use the cap and some internet vendors make you pay extra for it.