Maclaren turning into a midfield team is disheartening, for me at least but Button had some wretched luck with the car early in the season ladt year as well. Unfortunately it wasnt ghr same kind of issues gbeyre having now. The MP4-28 is junk at the monent and cery un Maclaren-like. Itll get better but any hopes for a CC or DC are a pipedream in my opinion. I agree for the most part with all of the above comments with the added comment that this sealed my opinion of Vettel. Can't stand him!

 

Couldn't agree more on Vettel.

He has become such a story that more and more seems to go his way. Like last years Abu Dhabi race where he ran other cars off the road to get in the points after his qualifying mishap and not a single reprimand.

I used to think the world of him when he showed up in the BMW for Kubica in the US Grand Prix and had a great race and then turned the STR into a race winner in Monza the following year. Now he's expectant that he should be he teams front runner at all costs and has become that figure that's easy to hate.

 

Vettel - o what a ***** he is....

Alonso - WTF?

 

I think Red Bull may be a very interesting team to watch this season. I'd be surprised if Webber didn't find a way to get payback at some point in the season...

What baffles me with Alonso is that Stefano Domenicali is now saying that the call for him to stay out there came from the Pit Wall and that it wasn't Fernando who decided to stay out... This despite the fact that the pit crew was already staged with fresh tires as Alonso came around. I can't believe that Ferrari really thought that leaving him out there for another lap with the wing hanging was a good ideal. How is it that the FIA hasn't penalized the team for running the car in an unsafe manner like that?

Along the same lines, how come we haven't heard about an investigation into the Hulkenburg/Raikkonen pit incident either?

 

I've always felt that Vettel has harbored a ruthless streak within his soul. I guess that is understandable given that his hero is one M. Schumacher (a driver known for his moments of unsparing on track behavior). Vettel's actions in seasons past (e.g. Silverstone 2011) have illustrated his desire to win is paramount to the exclusion of all else. This all or nothing mentality will cost him. As of now, a price has been extracted as his legacy will be tarnished... no longer the fair-haired, boy hero, seeking the embrace of lady victory but rather the hollow, self-centered, individual who wins by hook or crook!
Malaysia was a phyrric victory for Vettel. Sebastian's defiance of team orders should not be tolerated within RBR. To race is one thing to defy the orders handed down from the pitwall is another. Observe the dealings going on at Petronas-Mercedes. Orders were issued there and observed. Rosberg was not happy but complied and that action on Nico's part shows that the team is working as a team whereas at RBR Vettel's behavior has sown the toxic seeds of discord. Last I checked, there is no "I" in Team... something that Sebastian needs to grasp and accept if RBR is to function as a unit. The stage is now set at RBR for some payback and if I were Vettel I'd be watching out for Webber!



Poor Fernando... He rolled the dice and lost. Hindsight is always 20/20 and Alonso no doubts regrets the gamble he took. All things considered it was a decision made in the heat of the battle with changing track conditions adding to the chaos at hand. Bad decision and so unlike Fernando. I guess that as far as the Scuderia is concerned, their strategy was good but the execution was poor.

 

Saw this Red Bull thing coming since the start. Seb is not going to be satisfied unless he is top of the podium...These guys are all super competitive Alpha Dogs...but Horner better take control or he is going to have a nightmare on his hands.

I could not believe Alonso stayed out...but even if he came in to replace the nose he would have had to come back a few laps later for slicks...so he probably did not miss out on many points. Still gutting.

Of course BBC coverage is going to be better...most of the teams are based in the UK and they don't have commercial breaks...NBC is okay so far...better then I thought they were going to be.

 

The thing is though - the depth of coverage that Speed offered last year is better than what we're getting from NBC. Heck the simple things that this team as experienced F1 reporters and commentators should know (and had down at Speed) like NOT TALKING OVER THE RADIO CHATTER which they've been doing repeatedly this year.

I'm not convinced that Will Buxton is even reporting from the pit lane during the race like he used to at Speed. He's missing so much action from wherever he's at that it doesn't seem like he's trackside, nor does it seem like he's following up on race events with NBC like he did with Speed. Why was he not asking Force India what was going on with their pit crew? Trying to get a comment from McLaren after Lewis' visit or Jenson's botched stop? Torro Rosso's collision? These are all things he used to do on Speed that he doesn't seem to be doing on NBC - Why?

And why was Vettel's pass of Webber not show in replay? It happened during commercial, but was a pretty key event in the race, but NBC never showed it. The FIA broadcast Newey's conversation with Vettel in the drivers room after the race - before Webber walked in. NBC only bothered to show us the exchange between Webber and Vettel (which really didn't make any sense) the rest of the world got to hear what Newey had to say to Vettel - and it wasn't positive.

Oh and BBC - didn't even have the rights to air the race live...

 

Didn't say NBC was better than speed...just better than I thought they were going to be. I am just happy it is aired somewhere...I have to rely on You Tube for WRC events. Beggars can't be choosers, we have always had crappy coverage over here.

 

Actually getting back to the race discussion - you think RB will take any action against the Wunderkind for his blatant disregard for team orders?

I hope so, but doubt it since I am sure they feel the manufacturers championship will be tight and they won't want to cut their nose off to spite their face in winning that....since it is the one they get paid for.

 

I doubt it... Mark's podium comments were spot on - Seb has the cover to do whatever he wants.

Even if they did take action against Seb, I suspect that it'll never be announced to the public.

 

The thing is, I expected them to at least be on par with Speed. It's not like NBC doesn't have experience covering motorsports, or that they were bringing in folks who've never covered F1 before...

 

That's true and I am hopeful that they will improve...I do like the concept of the split screen to provide constant coverage of the race...just wish the Picture in Picture was a bit bigger.

I don't really care for Will Buxton too much so don't listen to him...I will pay attention during the next race. Honestly he always seemed to be such a Hamilton fan boy I tuned him out.

 

one thing that kept annoying me was that Varsha, Hobbs and Machet kept talking about changing tires for the regs...they started on inters so the regs go out the window. I admit to yelling at the tv a couple times.

 

I've been of the opinion that with every passing season, Formula One's veneer of being the top step of technology and innovation in racing has been steadily eroded in favor of the show.

KERS, DRS, control ECUs, stagnant/frozen engine development, restrictions on body shape, and now Pirelli's self destructing control tires have removed the potential for real innovation and are all contrivances that strip the sport of actual competition between designers, teams and drivers.

There was a time when you could tell one car from another, such were the differences in the designer's pen that gave us radically different concepts on what constituted their concept of a winning F1 car (witness the March 871, Ligier JS5, Hesketh 308, Tyrrell P34, and Ferrari 312T, etc.) Now due to regulations its hard to tell one car from another and were it not for the different liveries I dare say that we would have trouble distinguishing one from another.

I miss the days when F1 had an environment where the rules allowed freedom of expression in design. Though some of these designs were never winners they were unique and it took all a driver could muster to make it a competitive proposition (e.g. Gilles Villenueve at the wheel of the Ferrari 126). It was the driver's on-track ability, his skill behind the wheel that was a great determining factor as to wether or not he made the top step of the podium.

I feel that for the sake of the show F1 has lost its direction. Too many constraints on designers, too many contrivances that attempt to level the playing field among the drivers (i.e. DRS, KERS, etc.), and now the new variable, the degradable tire, making for too many pit stops and overtaking not on the track but in the pitlane.

So tell me friends, how do you all feel about the state of F1 today?

Your opinions are welcome and encouraged!

 

Agree with everything you said however the dilemma becomes....

Let loose the rules and watch the top 3 teams come away as the only competitors. Hell it's nearly that way now. Imagine all the money that COULD BE spent were it not for regulation. I really don't have the answer.

 

A couple of interesting things have come out since the "pass heard round the world"

First of all, Mark is lucky he didn't get fined for his moves against Vettel, plus showing him the finger was the absolute worst in bad sportsmanship.

Second, the reason they told Mark to turn his Power down is that he was going to run out of fuel, Vettel had been using his draft for a number of laps, so he was good to go.

Lastly, I think Vettel did exactly what he should - he's paid to race, not drive around.

Would you expect Schumi to hold back?

Senna? Villenueve? ManseL? Prost?

Any truly good driver would have done the same thing. My comment to Mark is, if you're faster - prove it by winning, not whining.

 

I think the big question is - what is Formula 1, a team or individual sport?

If it's a team sport - then why cripple the teams? Let the teams truly innovate, and throw their money into the car and develop. Of course then you end up with 3 or 4 teams running away with the race within the first 4 laps and the remaining teams just providing moving obstacles.

If it's an individual sport - then why allow the teams any development at all? Remove the constructors element completely and put out a spec car with each driver running the same car? But doing that removes the draw for the manufacturers to get involved and removes the cache from the series along with the money that comes with it.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but Formula 1 in it's current incarnation is a team sport first. Constructors get money for team placement - but is there money for driver placement?

I think there are some things that the FIA can do to improve the situation - without artificially inject competition:

• Stabilize the rules- End the cycle of develop, field, improve, ban that is currently in place. Leave the rules alone for 5+ years and let the back marker teams a chance to engineer their way up.
• Rethink the finances- Give ALL the teams money and not just the top 10. Spread it out evenly ensuring that the last two teams still get money instead of shutting them out. Give the teams more of a cut of the money brought in by FOM. Think a similar revenue sharing deal like what's in place in MLB or the NFL.
• Allow the tech that came from F1 and is now in road cars back into F1. Bring back active suspension, ABS, etc. Make F1 again a tech incubator for the manufacturers - make it attractive for manufacturers to be in F1 again.

As for the DRS/KERS/ERS debate. As a fan who only got into F1 in the last year - it doesn't bother me. However, the underlying tech behind KERS and ERS is something that F1 should be pushing. Given the interest in hybrids, KERS and ERS is one of the few things currently in use on today's F1 cars that could have an application on road cars.

 

I think if Red Bull had been truly serious about wanting Seb to hang back then Horner's radio call should have been a bit strong than just: "This is silly Seb." If Horner is actually running the team and really wanting him to hang back then maybe not mincing words and actually leading his team would have been the thing to do.

Remember the commentators response to Horner's radio to Seb? On both NBC and BBC the response was an amused chuckle. "Ha Ha, Christian's upset with his drivers."

On the other hand when Brawn got on to back Rosberg down the response was more along the lines of "oooh the Boss is pissed now."

Mark has a right to be pissed. He was told by the team to turn the engine down and preserve the car, and he did. We'll probably never know if Seb did. If F1 is truly a team sport before it's an individual sport then Red Bull should remind Seb that he is an employee of Red Bull and the teams interests come first. What's probably the only way to get a driver's attention - fine them... But that's something the team should handle, and honestly something that they shouldn't announce that they're doing.

 

F1 is a team sport. Drivers are payed by those teams to win yes, but they aren't payed to do as they please. Would you expect to be praised if you ignored your bosses wishes and risked his money? I do get your point and this comparison with Senna, Prost, et al. has been brought up in other forums and yes they should follow orders then as any driver should now. Senna was a great driver but just because he died doesn't make him a saint. He did plenty of questionable crap in his day. Some of it downright wrong!

I gave Vettel a chance. He's a good driver, but his attitude and incessant whining when things don't go his way is beyond annoying. Case in point. Vettel CONSTANTLY used his DRS last year to win races. Sometimes he did so to come from near last to first but to then whine over the radio about how stupid DRS is when Hamilton smoked him at the US GP is just laughable.

 

Oh yes, thats so right TerminalVelocity... If the teams are unconstrained and unregulated in their use of money well then you can easily see where that would lead.

I was thinking that to limit the amount of money spent by a team, a monetary cap could be put in place but I guess that those who have greater wisdom at the FIA have already put limits like that in place as of 2010...

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9290.html

I'm not advocating Formula Libre, just a return to a time when designers were rewarded for their imagination while working within the context of a more lenient set of rules, making for a more diverse looking field of cars as opposed to today's cookie-cutter looking machines. A field where the driver may or may not have to work around a car's foibles, which as an added bonus showcases a driver's ability behind the wheel.

Its ironic that teams, fans and the FIA eschewed driver aids such as launch control, ground effects, etc. due to cost and the fact that the driver was being taken out of the equation yet now for the sake of the show things like KERS, DRS, control tires, etc. are being hailed as good things.

Sometimes it feels as if F1 is becoming more and more of a Spec series rather than the pinnacle of motorsports technology.

 

The difference between Vettel, Schumi, Senna etc...is that the other guys would not have lied about not understanding the order, or passing by accident...they would have just said - yes I passed him because I am here to win...if you are going to be "that guy" embrace it. People would still call you a D*ck and Hate you, but you will at least be honest about it.

 

BTW..Horner is the biggest loser here...obviously he is not at the helm of that team. I wonder if next time Webber will just put him into the wall.

 

Based on Seb's words this week.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22106490

I can only assume that his definition of an apology isn't the same as the rest of the world's definition of an apology.

This combined with Red Bull's "decision" to reduce the use of team orders, just re-enforces the impression that Horner's completely lost control of the Vettel and that Vettel believes that he's running the team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22109935

This sounds to me like Red Bull (or just Deitrich Mateschitz) has decided to just let Seb do what he wants in order to "avoid" a controversy like this in the future.... The might as well just rename the team Sebastian Vettel's Infinity Red Bull Race Team.

 

This is a good point, and I agree with it. I don't think Vettel should have apologized, I think he should have manned up and said what was in his heart - "I'm here to win"......

But a few people seem to have missed the point I was making in my earlier post - Red Bull told Mock Webba to turn his engine down so he wouldn't run out of fuel - and lose all those first or second position points. Vettel had no such constraints as he'd managed his fuel load better.

I would have passed him too.

But I would not have apologized for it.....let the chips fall where they will.

The team really doesn't care which of their drivers wins the championship, other than for bragging rights - they make their money on the Constructors, and that's why they care about having both cars finish the race, preferably in P1 & P2. But they really don't care who's in which place.

Why Braun was so insistant that his boys hold station? He didn't want them to take each other out and give up those points. It's a long season, every point counts.

Vettel and Webba have taken each other out of P1 and P2 before in a race, that's the only thing Horner cared about - or should have.

I also think that if Mark Webber wants to show Vettel that he's a better driver, there's a better way to do it than whining about team orders - go and win the race in as convincing a fashion as Seb does. Outqualify him, outrace him and finish first. That will do it......

Oh, and maybe stop muffing the starts?

 

Turned down engine or not - the team order went out "Multi 21" which according to BBC means that the number 2 car (Webber) finishes ahead of the #1 car (Vettel). Vettel originally said he "misunderstood the order" but now it seems even more likely that he just ignored it.

Along the same lines, BBC is now saying that the order "Multi 12" went out in Brazil last year - an order that Mark ignored. The only difference appears to be that Webber said before the race that he had no intention of helping Seb win the title, combined with it being the last race of the season and attention quickly shifted elsewhere once the race ended.

Red Bull is a "team" in name only as there's very little teamwork actually going on. So far they've been successful as a team in spite of this, but how much longer will that last? How long before the division between the two drivers starts to have an impact on the rest of Red Bull's garage?