I wonder if Ham won't be weaker within the team without RD. Ron was always Ham's big backer, this makes me wonder if Heikki won't have a better season with reference to where Ham finishes. Without Papa Ron, Heikki might get the optimum setup and fuel strategy once in a blue moon.

 

I'm curious--why do you say there is such a disparity in Heikki's team? And what would be the motivation to have one driver distinctly different in setup & strategy?

 

Oh good grief.

Heikki was complaining last season because of the disparity of treatment between himself and LuHam! Heikki was always being made to go out in quals with a full load of fuel, and use him as the guinea pig to get up LuHams car.

I agree with BenJam, it will be interesting to see what happens with Sugar Daddy Ron gone.

 

Thanks. To further stoke this fire. Of the Mclaren drivers, only one has won the RoC (Race of Champions). And in the process, he beat Mr. M. Schumacher head to head....IIRC. I'll give you a hint, he wasn't British.

The benefit of handicaping a driver on your team is basically a way of having a #1 and #2 driver without team orders. With all of the money invested in Ham compared to Heikki, it only makes sense that RD would want Ham to win the WDC.

 

Yes, in 2004 Heikki Kovalainen won the RoC. If we are going to start using RoC as a benchmark then Ferrari made a mistake by hiring Schumacher and should have hired Carl Edwards.

The fact is that people and sponsors want Hamilton to win. So, Mclaren can make more money if he does, this results in Hamilton being the #1 driver. They have already made him the superstar on that team. And of course RD wanted him to win because they invested so much money into him. Everyone on the brain trust at Mclaren invested that money and wants a good return on it. I don't think that just because RD is gone that the other higher ups at Mclaren now don't want to give Hamilton every chance to win. Plus the kid can drive, he will win more championships and make whatever team he is on a lot more money. If there is anyone with a brain on the board at Mclaren they will not let Hamilton get away.

 

You're kidding. Carl Edwards won the RoC? Not to get off topic, but when?

I would think that now that Ham has his first WDC, that Mclaren would be a little less interested in getting him a WDC at the cost of a WMC.

 

No he did not win, he just beat Suhmi head to head by like 1.7 seconds this year. Then Coulthard beat Edwards to get to the Finals. Coulthard then lost to Lobe.

 

Isn't that the job of the number 2 ? Someone has to carry the extra fuel to allow the staggered pit stops. Perhaps that is a driving factor in getting rid of stops, they'll both be equal....wouldn't that be interesting ? You need to look at the number 2 as a job supporting the number 1 driver, which is what "it is", Lewis' job description says "Win the race" Hiekki's says "You will support Lewis in his effort to win the race, if he drops out, is much slower or has a problem, then you will win the race"

As for Lewis, there's no way Mclaren/Merc signed Lewis just because of Ron. He is signed on by the company and as he has stated, will stay there his whole career. Of course things do go sour quite often (and it has, he did have a large disagreement with Mclaren prior to his F1 job posting) and he may leave. Would be interesting if he ever made it to Ferrari, perhaps he could buy Luca a new TV ?

Latest from Whitmarsh
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/260120...chumacher.html

 

Every F1 driver is by definition, a very, very good driver. Maybe there are 30 or so people in the world that qualify into that group. Of those 30, 22 or so get a seat. Of those 22, 6 have a real chance at winning a race, of those 6, 2 have it all together in a season to become world champion.
With Ron or without, with Jean T. or without, these top of the top drivers will make it happen because they can. Hamilton is poised to rule F1 for a while if current trends hold. Heikki IMO is not in this top tier, and even with the LONG shadow of Ron a thing of the past, he will not come up with the goods.
By the way, if RoC is a glimpse of greatness, S. Vettel will be in that select group soon.

 

You're contridicting yourself man !

Heikki won it in 2004

 

You're contradicting yourself man !

Heikki won it in 2004

 

Not necessarily. After all, they're very different cars. Montoya was great on the Champ car circuit, but didn't do squat in F1. And Michael was ultra-successful in F1, but not very good in RoC.

Ironically, both are working on second venues--Montoya in NASCAR, and Michael in motorcycle racing...

 

Daf, if you're quoting my comment, dacarh501 was saying Heikki was no good but "if RoC is a glimpse of greatness, S. Vettel will be in that select group soon" I figure dcarh501 missed the fact that Heikki won......

Everyone knows Heikki is Numero two and realize he will get the short straw when it comes to the car, fuel loads, strategy, new components, etc.

Life as a #2

 

Wha????

Seven wins and 30 podiums in 94 starts is not doing squat!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Pa...r_-_F1_Testing

Wow - you are tough,

Alan

 

By what criteria? He had numerous wins, podiums, etc and he ended up 3rd in the 2003 driver's championship.

I'd say he had a pretty good F1 career, although I think he got a bit too bold and reckless in the end. He fell out of favor at Williams, but that team hasn't really done so well since they severed their relationship with BMW.

 

You mean McLaren?

 

Oh yeah, he was good at Williams. I think his problems at McLaren were that his personality is a bad fit for the McLaren-Dennis culture. JPM is a loose cannon and that doesn't fit McLaren's style. I think JPM got sloppy as a result.

 

Basically, in the end whoever is deemed the #1 in a team that can win, pretty much gets the keys to the kingdom. Unfortunately, it has a lot less to do nowadays with talent and more to do with money. If you have more sponsorship dollars, you get a higher position in the team (#1 status, better contact, etc.). Hence Heikki gets the short end of the stick.

Edwards would only get the asterisk as far as I'm concerned. MS spends most of his time in a rocking chair on his porch.

How many times has Schumacher won the RoC? There has to be a list of the different year's winners.

 

And driving taxis.

Surprisingly never.

2008 - Sébastien Loeb
2007 - Mattias Ekström
2006 - Mattias Ekström
2005 - Sébastien Loeb
2004 - Heikki Kovalainen
2003 - Sébastien Loeb
2002 - Marcus Grönholm
2001 - Harri Rovanperä
2000 - Tommi Mäkinen
1999 - Didier Auriol
1998 - Colin McRae
1997 - Carlos Sainz
1996 - Didier Auriol
1995 - François Delecour
1994 - Didier Auriol
1993 - Didier Auriol
1992 - Andrea Aghini
1991 - Juha Kankkunen
1990 - Stig Blomqvist
1989 - Stig Blomqvist
1988 - Juha Kankkunen

A total of 13 total drivers; 11 of which are from the World Rally Championship; 1 from F1 and 1 from Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters (Mattias Ekström) So apparently not a great comparison for talent in the F1 world.

 

And now, racing motorcycles.

 

I guess I stand corrected on Heikki and his RoC record, it still does not change my opinion that he is not World Champion material. I have to say that is a revealing list, mostly rally drivers on top.

I also tend to agree on the JPM argument that he did accomplish a lot in F1. I was a big fan of his, (especially when he took on Michael, (remember brasil at a restart, turn 1?_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Brazilian_Grand_Prix)
His erratic and hot tempered driving, coupled with the unfullfileld promise that McLaren would be the team where he would mature, ultimately made him choose an easy and quite unceremonial way out into Nascar (that's when he lost me as a fan). There he can be as hot tempered as he wants, and also gain as much weight as he pleases. (He still makes more money than most will ever make in a lifetime.) I have made my peace with him, and will use his memorabilia (caps and shirts) in private.
At least I saw him at his peak in France at Magny-Cours 2004,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_French_Grand_Prix when he led the race for a while. That was the race Kimi lost to Michael. (who pitted 4 times and still won!) when he lost it on adelaide hairpin (turn 5). It was also the race Montoya later cited as his catalist for leaving BMW Williams. JPM finished 8th, but I redeemed my frustration with a couple of rounds on the best Kart track I have ever been to (on premises.)

 

I guess that's the sort of thing I hate most about some of these prima donnas. You don't have to be an ********* to drive well.

Ending up 3rd in 2003 doesn't inspire me, either--he drove another 3 years, after all. And he was consistently a DNF--either from crashes or equipment failure...

But yeah, I am tough when I'm looking at the guys making the big bucks (14 mil in '06). I was really excited when he started in F1. And I was disappointed.

 

JPM was relegated to Number 2 status at Mclaren and that's that. He said that if you cannot get a number 1 seat with a number 1 team, then it is time to leave, and that is what he did.

I thought his win at Monaco was his shining moment, by that time he was not driving as erratic as he started out, showing a sign of maturity and control.

As for trashcar, I love to see him put it to the good old boyz on the circuits that turn right

If you go by RoC, looks like Loeb would beat Lewie, Kimi and Felipe........If I had to pick the alltime greatest driver, it wouldn't be Schu, it would be Andretti. He raced in everything and won, even drag racing.

 

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/...edal-analysis/

Looks like the medal system may not be dead yet.

 

Abso-freaking-lutely! I get so tired of people screaming Schumacher when talk of greatest driver comes around. Ok, seven WDC's. WHAT ELSE HAS HE EVER DRIVEN AND WON? When Schu wins at Indy, NASCAR, Sports Prototypes, dirt track, and drags.... then come back and talk. Only other driver I put in Mario's class, is Jim Clark.