Originally Posted by NJ Mini

The way I always look at HPDE days is that they are a fun, controlled way to explore the limits of the car and do the most important thing, teach the person behind the wheel to really learn to drive at their best. To me, even a justa can be very fast on the track once you're up to speed and taking the proper racing line, so the most important thing is being able to stop. I would look to upgrade the brake fluid (which costs all of $30) and get stainless steel brake lines. This will really help get the most from the already good brembo system on the JCW. The rubber hoses can eventually start to bulge and stretch after repeated track use. The stainless steel lines won't have those issues and help resist fade better.

Congrats on the car and the mods. Glad you are enjoying your MINI!

Originally Posted by Eddie07S

So I gather that you didn’t experience any brake fade when you went out. But I would think that you were driving much less aggressively than what you will be as you gain a little experience and with the modification that you are making. Just be wary. If the brakes start to take more effort or start to feel spongy, that is brake fade and you will need to get better pads.

I am also going to get on my soapbox for a minute; say my piece and go away.

I have 12 track days under my belt. Not a lot and certainly not enough to know everything. But I have seen and experienced a lot in that short time. Last year I saw a MINI stuffed into a guard rail at 80 mph and another spin on a 90 mph corner into the tire barrier for $10k worth of damage. This year I saw a one-of-a-kind (#1 of 2000) TransAm Firebird that slid 200 feet off the track backwards into a stand of trees and hit so hard that the front bumper was damaged. And a friend rolled his MINI. All of these people are expert, solo drivers. The track is a very unforgiving place.

I appreciate your enthusiasm (I was there not too long ago), but I would also not like to hear of you having a problem.

Many of the changes that you are making, in particular the rear sway bar, are intended to take some of the understeer out of your car. However, that is also taking away some stability that is designed into the car. That means that the car will be more prone to wanting to swap ends. What this can translate into is a rear wheel slide that you can’t correct with any steering input. When the tires do hook up you will likely be pointed at a guard rail. Yes this can happen in an understeering prone front wheel drive car like a MINI. Take real care in setting up the shocks to achieve a good front to rear balance. My advice is to not take much of the understeer out at first and progress to a more neutral car as you gain experience.

My mentor once told me to never take a car onto the track that you can’t afford to lose either monetarily or emotionally. The guy who lost his TransAm was in tears and many people felt bad for him. As for monetarily, you should buy track insurance. If you belong to BMWCCA you can get discounted track insurance for their events and as a bonus, they also run less expensive track days than many groups. Listen to your instructor and drive smoothly and conservatively. There is plenty of time to go faster. Your main objectives of a track day is to have fun, learn about your car and yourself and drive your car home; not go home in the cab of a flatbed.

Thanks for indulging my rambling. This is just one person’s experience.

Originally Posted by bmwr606

+1 on everything Eddie07S said

after i bought my first front wheel drive car, a 1976 VW Rabbit, and exited a couple corners backwards and on the inside, i figured i needed some instruction on how to drive the then new concept of FWD

i took lessons on road rally driving, the only place FWD was raced at the time, in a Saab with an instructor on board

since then, over the years i have many track days, but in about 1986, i started to do track days on my motorcycle

eveything gets much more serious on a motorcycle because if you crash YOU are directly involved, no cage to protect you

i have seen more equipment carnage than i can even begin to list here, but 100s of thousands of $$$ and many scrapes and broken bones

now i trailer the track vehicle to ensure i have a way home and try to have someone else along to drive in case i am injured, and track days are much more fun with friends

all that said, i may track the CMS All4 once (or twice ... maybe three times ), but i will be staying with motorcycles for track days ... faster .... cheaper .... lots more fun, right up to the point of impact

scott

Originally Posted by Phobix

I appreciate you taking the time to write this out, I enjoyed reading it =) I have spoken with way from WMW and I dont think brake fade is going to be as much of an issue. The 2011+ JCW comes with brake cooler's and once I get the motul 600 and stainless steel lines installed (tomorrow), I will be in pretty good shape. I will definitely heed your advice and be paying close attention to my brakes. My last track day, I came into a hair pin at about 110 and the brakes held up well. I will continue to monitor.

Originally Posted by Eddie07S

Phobix - That is good to hear about the brakes.

I know that I said I would go away, but really that was really never going to happen. So here I go again.

In addition to the watching the brakes, bmwr606 and I are hoping to caution you about the car's handling, especially with the changes that you are making to your car. It would be good if you have access to a skid pad where you can learn about the understeer and oversteer characteristics of your car. One problem that you can get into is getting off the gas in a curve, even in a slight curve with a slight amount of throttle change. In a MINI that can result in a transition from understeer to oversteer which can cause the back end to come around. This is going to be even more prevalent with the changes that you are making. This was a culprit in the 3 MINI crashes I cited above.

I hope you don't mind me "pushing" this a bit. I really would like to see you have many days of fun out there. It is best, though, to know where the pitfalls can be so you can avoid them.

Motor On

Originally Posted by Phobix

Ya, I was at the track 2 weeks ago and spent a good 2 hours on the skid pad in between runs. I look forward to getting these parts and and seeing if I can actually get her to oversteer. I had the chief instructor with me and even he couldn't get my car to oversteer, we had to use the e-brake to initiate.

Originally Posted by Eddie07S

Just curious, what suspension did your MINI come with?
For the stock suspension, what you found out is exactly right. With each upgrade BMW dialed out a bit of that understeers. My Sports Suspension will understeers on a skidpad, but I had the tail come around in a tight corner when I overdrove it and lifted off the throttle. Point being is that while the skid pad is good for somethings and worth the time on it, it is limited as to what it will show you.

My suggestion is to bias your setup towards understeer for your first few times out then slowly dial it out as you gain experience.

Originally Posted by Phobix

So everything is back together and running well. the FMIC made such a difference in temps. I am still thinking about what I want to do with the NM exhaust. I may just end up getting a piece of pipe to bridge the gap. I need to get the resonator deleted.

I had to order a new bushing for my shifter as I broke the existing one trying to get it out. What a PITA that was. Suspension should be going on in the next few weeks, will update more as things happen. Have a good weekend all!

Originally Posted by Eddie07S

Phobix,
before you do the suspension, read through this one:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...rs-beware.html

My guess is that if you are careful and only pull the bolt on the rear trailing arm only once you should be ok. But if you are going to pulling the shocks to do adjustments you may want to modify the bolt setup