phantasms, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think in real world comparisons, a 2011 MCS with 184hp, vs 208hp 2011 JCW is not that much different. The new MCS will be plenty quick, and with certain color and wheel combos, it will look very nice. Add an aero kit, and black JCW challenge spoke rims, and it looks sweat. The JCW does not come with the aero kit, and a dealer would make a deal on the wheels to sell a car. So the price difference with the same options is probably 5000.00+ Since no engine changes were made to the JCW, then the dreaded "death rattle" issue may still be there, and have to be addressed. I think I would wait for a 2013 JCW if you can. That is if they are still being produced by then. With the 3rd generation cars suppose to be out then, the new JCW may have 240-250hp by then, and be far superior to the current car. That is what I am going to do, hold onto my 2009 JCW stage 1 MCS convertible for 2 more years, and get a 3rd gen JCW. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

First off, have you ever driven a JCW Factory car then a MCS car back to back? And, when you start adding the Brembo Brakes, yes the Challenge wheels and other JCW special options that are standard, the price gets real close. And to make the comparison closer, you need to add the cost of the JCW tuning kit. They, Mini has made some nice refreshed things to the MCS this year, the engine was over do, definately. As for your Death Rattle that was correct last January with the R56 turbo cars.

Yes, I am biased, as I have just ordered a 2011 JCW. I like what they have done to separate the JCW from the MCS, I like the power, I like the brakes and all are fully warranteed, and i like the exhaust sound. Shucks I even like the new JCW checkered standard seats. Could they have done more? Yes, could they have added 20-30 more horsepower, yes, but that's only a ecu tune away anyway, so why worry. Same for the economy too. Everybody has the JCW dead, well thank you. That will make mine just all that much more special to me.

 

very good points!

Also - look at the numbers in my sig. The regular S is not getting those kinda of numbers.

 

Right, I always here about how close, especially with the MCS upgrade to 184hp, that's still 24 advertised hp difference. Ok, so now they're going to 195. Now we're at 13 hp difference. Now, add a tune to the JCW and see what you get? Right, and I haven't heard of a JCW that wheel dynoed for less than 198 hp. Do the math on that and you're in the 215 - 220 hp stock, not 208. Then as you noted, do a Alta or RMS tune and you're looking at 220 whp, or 240+ at the flywheel. And for the sake of argument, let's say that you do a severe tune and get 245hp with the MCS. Does that short block have heavy duty pistons, better breathing head, bigger turbo? Nope and what about the warrantee? None, whereas the JCW with it's built in strength, well afterall the JCW motor is nothing more than a detuned Mini Challenge race engine, in reality. And, don't get into the cost thing, you can not build a MCS to the JCW specs for the same money.

Ordered: 9/8/2010.....Born:.....--/-/2010.....Delivered:.....--/--/2010

 

Hemisedan, You are very defensive, but I do understand that. I also own mustangs, and I bought a brand new 61,000 saleen S281 supercharged mustang in 2006, with 475hp. I was always defending myself with that car, other mustang guys stating it is just a mustang GT with a body kit and a supercharger, etc. and not worth the extra money, similar argument with the JCW vs MCS here. So I do understand.

I love the JCW cars, but the gap has narrowed a little bit for 2011. Especially with the JCW tuning kit, going to 195hp. Yes, that is still 13hp, but the "seat of the pants feeling" between the two will not be that much. That is all I am saying. The MCS JCW stage 1 car will still be 4000.00 less after the kit, comparing the same other options, ie cold weather, leather seats, etc.

Yes, the JCW factory car will still be faster, but not that much. I know you get forged internals, bigger turbo, bigger brakes, challenge spoke wheels, etc. If you do not mod your car, that will not matter, the regular MCS brakes are plenty good, very good for street driving at that, and as long as you dont redline your car all the time, and as long as you put good gas in it, you are not going to blow up the motor.

I have remorse with my car a little, wishing that I bought a factory JCW car, but I still love my car. In the big picture a JCW factory car is not that fast. I have a 2010 shelby GT500 with 540hp, and obviously I can pull 10 car lengths on any factory JCW in the quarter mile, and kill it on the street.

I just prefer to wait for the 3rd gen car, and see how much hp the JCW will have then. I was speaking to someone at mini, at the LA mini countryman launch party last month, I will not give his name, and asked him about the next JCW, and he hinted at getting closer to 230-250 hp, so I think it is possible from the factory. This is of course hearsay. In the meantime, just enjoy your factory JCW, it is a hell of car!

 

rans09vert:

Sorry if I came accross a bit defensive, but I do get tired of all the bad mouthing the JCW. Just for the forums information, I went on the new Miniusa configuration site today, especially since you brought up the $4,000. difference. I put together a MCS with Spice Orange color. Put the Sport package in, and Cold Package, got rid of the off white headliner with the Ant. headliner like the JCW has, replaced with a $1560. wheel option, to match the Challenge wheels, well sort of. Xenons, adaptives, rear fog lights, H&K sound, optioned as close as I could to my JCW. Then added the JCW tune kit, but with no $750. installation fee. I couldn't add the Brembo Brakes, but you already said the stock brakes are good enough. Guess where the MCS came in at? $32700+ and some change, not counting the JCW tune installation. I was shocked, really. My JCW came in at $33,250.
I tried to figure as close as possible as I could, and it is this close? Sure, take the wheels off and you take another $1500 off, but I could have added the Challenge wheels for a measly $2560, which I didn't. And, don't get me wrong, this MCS is a nicely equipped car, should make someone very happy, but the JCW still stands out. OK, like I said, I am biased, because I will enjoy my JCW, just like many here will enjoy their MCS. Now, enough bickering, please.

2011 B/Chili Red JCW Ordered: 9/8/2010......not born yet, or scheduled.

 

I was also thinking of buying the 2011 MCS over the 2011 JCW, but also went with the 2011 JCW (Convertible) for most of the same reasons mentioned above.

The price difference with the MCS is not that big (also here in The Netherlands), but the 2011 JCW gets you a lot whole more than the 2011 MCS which, for me at least , makes the decision a lot easier:

- Factory build JCW sounds better then MCS with JCW tuning kit (I've driven both)
- Interior with the gray faces gauge combined with the Chili Red interior surface and Black Lounge Leather with red piping makes me drool

And if you are buying the coupe version, the Midnight Black combined with the red roof also looks very sweet.

All in all the 2011 refresh makes it much easier to justify the minor cost above the MCS. But again, this my personal feeling.

 

Deniax: That's what I found. I've been hearing so much about the $6K difference for so long, I went and configured, just like you did. And, when you consider the $2100 JCW tune kit, then the install, not even getting to the Brembo Brakes, it's awfully close. With the others, the MCS is more expensive. Shucks, for a hardtop, if you get the normal options, you're at $30k, or right next to it. That $700 increase, then the $250 on the Cold Package and some others, it brings the price right up there. Well, I guess BMW is getting their profits now.

 

No matter what Mini Cooper anyone decides to get I'm sure they will enjoy just owning one. If you are on a very tite budget they offer the Just-A-Mini and it is just plain fun and still a very good car. If you are really into owning a really good High Performance car A Mini "S" is really good. If you are like me and like to do Hot Laps at various speedways and do not ever really want to do any Modifications the JCW is perfect. It is made to take the stress.

They are all great cars. The Clubman, the new Countryman, The new roadster & the one with the funny roof as well as the hatchback and convertible are all in the Mini/BMW family and are for different people. Not any one car is better or worse then the other. They all fill the need of their new owners and will be loved as much as I do my 2009 factory JCW.

They make the JCW package as well as many other genuine performance items for the Mini's due to they know that there are people that like to tinker with their cars.

I may be wrong but I think that when they run out of the JCW engines it will be the end of the line for the Factory JCW for a while. Of course there will be a new version but when? Maybe a "WRC" model (World rally Championship Countryman)

-------------YEP----SOMETHING FOR EVERYBODY---------------------

 

Ronnie: You said it well, there is not really a bad Mini Cooper out there, anywhere. I think that you are probably right about the end of this generations JCW when they run out of the engines that they have on hand. I'd be very surprised if they made, or put together anymore. That is the reason, in my mind, why they didn't do the Valvetronic to the JCW for this year. And, as for worrying about getting a JCW yet this year, at least my order is in the system.

2011 Black/Red roof JCW

ORDERED: 09/08/2010.......NOT BORN YET........DELIVERY 11/1/2010

 

I LOVE my 09 JCW CABRIOLET and was the best thing for the money at the time. However, today, I wouldn't do it again. I'm looking for the 2012 VW GOLF R which is supposed to come out mid year in 2011. All wheel drive, huge breaks, and 260 plus horses and comes in four door. I don't know why MINI is wasting time and money on worthless (in my opinion) visual cues when what counts is underneath the hood. Honestly, my gas mileage is NOT all that great either. I was just at the porsche dealer looking at a six cylinder panamera and it gets similar mileage to what I'm getting which is between 19 and 27 mpg.

 

The Golf R was also on my shortlist (as many other cars before I ordered the 2011 JCW Cabrio), but while it look good on the outside and inside, I did not have the "click" with the car.

Maybe it's due to the reason that in Western Europe you see them on every corner which, for me at least, makes them a bit too ordinary.

Or maybe because it's still a Golf, no really rough edges while driving which , again for me, made the car a bit too boring.

Even then, the Golf R will be a very good choice which you'll have tons of fun with. Enjoy

 

What great deals? Yes they are offering 0.9% apr this month on 2010 models but my dealer won't go more than a grand off the top. And they offer 0.9% practically every other month now. Also, he says the JCWs are rare and there is little profit in each car but according to the WSJ they make a killing off each car they sell (because they are so overpriced) and frankly the car he is trying to sell me has been sitting on the lot all year and hasn't moved. I said fine you keep your rare JCW car..... I'll just wait for either a golf R or a new mustang gt. Better cars for the same price.

 

Thanks, here in the states, the GOLF r will be a rare bird indeed since they aren't importing many of them to the states and the price will be relatively high for a compact at least by american standards. I'm also considering a BMW 1 series, but the gas mileage isn't so good and then it only has two doors. My short list is the golf r and mustang gt. I am just sad that MINI had the opportunity to really do something cool with the jcw but now it's starting to look like a posseur with the red roof and black tinted head lights.

 

Ah the 1 series The 135i was also on my shortlist, but the config I wanted was too expensive for me :(
Otherwise I would have bought the 135i. The handling and sheer power of the BMW is really impressive and leaves the R behind. Only problem with it is that the interiour looks a bit dated. But still, it was my #1 car

Anyways, we're getting a bit offtopic

 

Deniax, sounds like we have similar tastes. You will love your JCW Cab plus you are getting the nicer all black dash! I love mine and it brings a smile to my face just thinking about it. I drove across the country in July at speeds of about 120-130mph and had a blast except for one speeding ticket. But I will need another car soon, and gosh i wish it was going to be a mini but it looks like it might not be.... we'll see.

 

If you are getting as low as 19 on your MINI I imagine you'd get as low as 5 on the porsche. You must drive like a demon. I've never seen below 27-28 on my JCW. Its usually 31-33. My last tank was 35.

Edit:

I didn't see your last post before I made my post. I guess you really do drive like a demon.

 

Yep on that trip I averaged about 26 miles a gallon and that was non stop highway driving, basically 48 hours coast to coast. I'd say my average speed was 90 miles an hour. Most of my driving is in Manhattan on weekends and averaging 35-45mph in stop and go city traffic, where i'm averaging 19-23 mpg. Since I just use my car for weekends and with that one crosscountry trip I am only a little over 5000 miles right now on my odometer.

I had an oil change at 1000 miles and one in california after I drove across the country. My car is still sitting in California because I flew back and plan to pick it up later.

Congrats on your good mileage! I hear high numbers from the non-s and s' but my experience with the jcw is not so great. Considering how big the Panamera is and with its 300 horses in the cheaper six cylinder, I think the 19/27 mpg rating is pretty attractive. Yes it's cost twice what I paid for my mini cab but it looks to me like I would be getting twice the car. The new golf r also is rated in the 26/34 and that's with almost 300 horses and all wheel drive. Even the new mustang is now getting up there in mileage stats. i guess I'm saying that for it's tiny size I'm surprised that the jcw mileage isn't higher.

 

Well, that is just plain wrong! Go back later and see if you can't get a better deal. All I am saying really, is that if you can't get a better deal on a '10 than an '11 at this time there is something seriously wrong!

 

The VW Golf R is not coming to the states. I inquired about it and called VW America. I thought about buying the VW Golf R also. But they said they are not bringing it here. Probably because the R32 did not sell to well.
Anyway I test drove a JCW Mini last July. Then I test drove the new VW GTI when it first came out last October, it's a very nice car, but I like the JCW Mini way better.

The JCW Mini is lighter, has more HP, handles better and has wayyyy better brakes(Brembos).

I know I made the right choice. I have a 2010 John cooper Works Mini.

Also how are you 19 MPG's?? I drive my car hard most of the time and I get 31 to 32 MPG on the highway.

 

The price is always negotiable. You can get a real good deal on a JCW if you put a good down payment and know how to negotiate. Even if you want to order one to your liking.

 

negotiating may help your price, but no amount of downpayment or "cash" will help. Either you can afford the car or you can't.

 

A VW is a VW.

A Corvette is a Corvette

A Cadillac is a Cadillac

A Mini is A Mini.

How in the world can you compare cars to each other. Get what you want or you just ain't gonna be happy. All car models have their own features. I really do not think any one is better or worse then another. There is something made for a million different tastes.

I must be really goofy because I like a lot of different brands of cars as well as a lot of different years of cars. I do have a 1988 Suzuki Samurai that I love. I also have a 2009 Factory JCW that I also love. (Both soooo different) I chose the Mini JCW because I like them not because I think it is the best car above all other cars. I would never turn down the Audi R-8 or a Lambo.

 

The more money you have to put down, gives you more leverage to negotiate a better price than if you have little to no money down.

 

You can always compare cars to each other. In the same class that is. You are not going to compare a Mini with a Ferrari.
But you can compare a Mini to a GTI. Thay are in the same class and in the same price range.

If you are buying a car, you should test drive the cars that you like(That you can afford) and compare and choose the best one that you will be happy with.

The JCW Mini is a great car. How many cars can you buy that is light, handles great, is very fast, looks very good, has awsome brakes, can choose a ton of options that you like from the factory and get 33 to 34 MPG.
Not many.