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I am continually amazed and disappointed that SCCA considers that the 2002 Cooper S at 150-ish HP and later Ss with up to 182 Hp are in the same class and can be competitive with the likes of the 208 and 228 HP JCWs, well enough alone some of the other cars in that list. Even if you go through and gut the whole suspension out of the S, add in the allowed JCW suspension parts and aftermarket RSB and shocks, the almost 50% power deficit would rule out ever running that car. And then there is the wheel width disadvantage compared to the other cars. I guess there is a reason I only do this for fun and MINIs are far and few between at the competitive level.
I am continually amazed and disappointed that SCCA considers that the 2002 Cooper S at 150-ish HP and later Ss with up to 182 Hp are in the same class and can be competitive with the likes of the 208 and 228 HP JCWs, well enough alone some of the other cars in that list. Even if you go through and gut the whole suspension out of the S, add in the allowed JCW suspension parts and aftermarket RSB and shocks, the almost 50% power deficit would rule out ever running that car. And then there is the wheel width disadvantage compared to the other cars. I guess there is a reason I only do this for fun and MINIs are far and few between at the competitive level.
Off hand I cannot recall how many National Titles the Mini has earned over the last 15 years.
HS - yep - Ron Williams, Karter Bollman, Greg Reno
STX - yep - Craig Wilcox
GS - yep - Ron Williams, Craig Wilcox, Mark Chiles, Anthony Savini
That's only a partial list, and my apologies to the ladies who have taken their titles with Minis as well.
At the regional level I've won Class Championships in Minis in ASP, STX, GS, and HS. Don't ask about the ASP title, it's too silly.
So I am quite philosophical about the current crop of F56 Minis and the classing decisions that SCCA has made in their regard.
And still having much fun, albeit getting whipped in STU this year. Again I say, it's the driver until the summit of the sport is near, and only then does the car intervene as a significant factor.
Off hand I cannot recall how many National Titles the Mini has earned over the last 15 years.
HS - yep - Ron Williams, Karter Bollman, Greg Reno
STX - yep - Craig Wilcox
GS - yep - Ron Williams, Craig Wilcox, Mark Chiles, Anthony Savini
That's only a partial list, and my apologies to the ladies who have taken their titles with Minis as well.
At the regional level I've won Class Championships in Minis in ASP, STX, GS, and HS. Don't ask about the ASP title, it's too silly.
So I am quite philosophical about the current crop of F56 Minis and the classing decisions that SCCA has made in their regard.
And still having much fun, albeit getting whipped in STU this year. Again I say, it's the driver until the summit of the sport is near, and only then does the car intervene as a significant factor.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Charlie
True, over the years this is true, the MINIs in general have done well. I may have said too much in my post by including the comment about other competition. My main thought was that it seemed unfair that they class the moderately powered S model in with the much higher powered JCW. I would think that in the hands of one skilled driver and with the same prep that the Gen III JCW would romp all over a 2002 S.
I am freshly reminded this year that fast autocross driving is not at all like riding a bicycle.
After driving only one event in each of the last two years, then returning this year to a full schedule, I am witness to just how ephemeral a skill it truly is.
I have been so slow this year, that I privately entertained the poor workman's excuse - "it must be the tool!". Oh shame, for this past weekend I sorted out that question with the kind and expert assistance of Brian Levesque - one of the faster FWD drivers in the country.
And the answer is... it's me, not Gollum. Shoulda known. Now I can get to work in earnest, and with a cheerful heart.
For I do not intend to put a full STU build on Gollum - no coil-overs, no mechanical LSD. What's there, is sufficient.
Here's the data so far.
True, I started slow and lazy - taking only morning runs.
True, I've been beaten like a drum by a fast driver in STU by the name of Oliver Lucier operating a 2010 Boxter S, well set up for the class.
True I've been also beaten by every other Street Class in the first three events, including HS!
This past weekend however, in Brian's company (he was my co-driver, in Gollum) things improved.
First, the 64.583 STU FTD was Brian in my car. So much for blaming the tool! Brian's time was appropriate for the class, but does reflect a slight disadvantage against a better prepared STX car.
Secondly, Brian helped me sort tire pressures to improve the car's rotation, as we both like a slightly tail-happy setup. That allowed me more speed, now I just need to clean up those later runs.
Third, Brian gave me some excellent feedback on my driving, and how best to approach the course - he is a good instructor.
So I luxuriated in good company, and what was to some degree a private driving course, and now am less disheartened with the year's progress.
Gollum and I will not take STU this year, not by a long shot, but speed and fun are out there for the grasping as I continue my practice and rust removal program.
A week and a half ago I had my first track day of the season, which was at LRP and last season I only did 2 events. I almost always go with a BMW CCA group as they seem to attract top driving instructors and they require a checkout ride with an instructor. The feed back I got was immensely helpful and the points he covered were things I thought I was doing perfectly well... well apparently I wasn’t. He also pointed out that his feedback points were “nits”. But, this is what I needed; improvement of the fine points. We all loose touch with the fine points without continual practice. Even with getting back on a bike, you won’t ride it the way you once did when you first get back on it.
Glad you have people available who can help with those finer points and that you are back to enjoying this once again.
Hey, side question for you - Do you know if the JCW Pro parts (like the available JCW Pro coilovers) are allowed in STU?
Charlie, how did your co-driver's raw times stack up?
Eddie, I don't know why they wouldn't since coil-overs are allowed in ST classes. The real question would be can you get by with them on a DS car, were they a factory option?
Charlie, how did your co-driver's raw times stack up?
Eddie, I don't know why they wouldn't since coil-overs are allowed in ST classes. The real question would be can you get by with them on a DS car, were they a factory option?
Charlie, how did your co-driver's raw times stack up?
Eddie, I don't know why they wouldn't since coil-overs are allowed in ST classes. The real question would be can you get by with them on a DS car, were they a factory option?
That I don't know. I know that was a discussion about the JCW Sports Suspension option for the R56 (the “red” spring suspension) and it was concluded they were port installed. (I hope I remember that correctly). I could check with my Dealer an see what they say. Maybe I’ll continue this discussion in the DS thread and Charlie can have his thread back....
Nice results Charlie! The wakeup call of a fast co-drive can do wonders for optimism of the coming season. Looks like a clean 63.xx was out there which would've stacked up well.
I believe I may have mispoken earlier, an offset bushing in the lower control arm used to be a popular part for STX E36's along with the camber plates, it shouldn't be bending the rules at all.
Originally Posted by invaliduser
I've been autocrossing a long time and know the rules pretty well. I was really just curious about the F56 and how competitive it could be street. I've never seen one compete in my region or any of the surrounding regions. Most of what I've read you touched on in your reply. Thank you for the feedback.
Apologies for mis-reading your post! It makes more sense in hindsight, an OE torsen/Quaife/wavetrac type diff would probably go a long way towards Street class competitiveness and make the DS for the JCW make a lot more sense. I think Eddie is right that a JCW is right with a Focus ST/GTI in GS without the diff, an S too if it can put on the JCW tune and exhaust.
Originally Posted by Eddie07S
True, over the years this is true, the MINIs in general have done well. I may have said too much in my post by including the comment about other competition. My main thought was that it seemed unfair that they class the moderately powered S model in with the much higher powered JCW. I would think that in the hands of one skilled driver and with the same prep that the Gen III JCW would romp all over a 2002 S.
It is a shame but at the same time there's a few less tangible advantages the Mini has due to wheelbase, track width, and suspension geometry that make it much more autox competitive than the typical performance numbers would imply, there's enough very positive results that the car has been buried for awhile. They generally have good gearing and the lack of camber is less punishing than the other macpherson strut cars, and with the 3rd gen BMW engine the power numbers are pretty conservative, the JCW beats a Focus ST 0-60 by a little bit in the tests I could find despite being 'down 24hp'.
To break out the three generations and base/S/JCW models would take quite a few people seriously campaigning each and writing letters, ultimately it's a quirky car with a bad reputation for reliability and a small cult following, it's not like a Miata or Corvette or FRZ where putting it in the right class means they'll get 40-50 of them filling a class at nationals with new members getting picked up along the way. Just having fun is certainly the right way to do it regardless of which car you bring, luckily the car can be fun in a lot of configurations
I do...The WavTrac makes a HUGE DIFFerence. Just that alone would make the Mini much faster. The cornering and traction are MUCH better than with only the ELSD that really doesn't do much for at the limit handling.
Next are the Forge Hard Pipes (in garage) after I decide weather to "coat" them to dissipate heat...and BMS Short Throw Clutch Stop for BMW, Mini Cooper, and Volkswagen × 1
$10.00
Subtotal
$10.00
Shipping
$0.00
Total
$10.00 USD
...to shorten the clutch pedal travel length just a bit...to go along with the Forge Short Shift Kit which will both be here tomorrow. Have an AutoX this Saturday and probably won't get both installed beforehand...
The ducks were rather plentiful at the Red Jacket Inn in North Conway...
the ducks make friends, and earn money for a good cause...
We went to the west side of the White Mountains yesterday evening, and stayed in Lincoln, nice and close to the Kancamagus.
I always sleep well listening to the Pemigawasset, and was thus bright eyed and bushy-tailed at 7:00 am this morning when Gollum and I started a run eastward.
The Kanc was patched with damp, but drying quickly as we moved out of Lincoln and started up the west slope, quickly dispatching the few other cars politely in the passing zones early in the route.
As we rose out of the valley the road dried and the pace picked up a bit - we slithered around the hairpin and danced up through the fast sweepers near the top of the West slope.
As we tipped over the crest to begin the roller coaster descent on the Eastern side the character or the road changed again, going from dimpled shade to bright sun. Alone on the road we forswore the brake pedal and enjoyed the good grip from the rapidly warming Bridgestones on the fast curves the hug the northeast flank of the ridge.
And then finally down to the long straights that lead out of the National Forest, and at a more decorous pace, out to Conway to find all the Miniacs.
The MoT group will do that route later in the day, when the traffic is persistent and convoy manners are required. Much more fun solo, and early!
Gollum and I parked up in the circle at the Inn. eventually surrounded by all manner of eclectic Minis, and a good natured collection of owners, passengers, children, small dogs, and the aforementioned swarm of ducklings.
My favorite Mini on the day was this lovely '67 Austin Cooper.
Which, by the way, has a Honda Fit engine in it!
The day was far to nice however, for Gollum and I to tarry, so about mid-day as the caravans were forming to go on various scenic drives, we went our own way - back across the Kanc for another (slower) run, and then eventually East to the seacoast, and finally home.
I hope those that went to the top of Mount Washington had fun - and I hope they dressed warmly!
This Friday Santa (via FedEx) should show up with next year's rolling stock. Knocks off seven pounds per corner and will allow a 225 to really work...
Neuspeed RSe05 black -- 88.05.03B
Size: 17x8.0
Offset (E.T.): +45mm
PCD (Bolt Pattern): 5-112
Center Bore: 57.1mm
Weight: 17 lbs.
TPMS, related wheel hardware mount & balance
Supreme Power machining of center bore from 57.1mm to 66.6mm
Bridgestone RE 71R 225/45-17
The total butcher's bill is $2,780, which ain't hay!
Thanks to NM Engineering, Supreme Power, and Bridgestone for helping stick this little hot rod to the road next Spring.
I'll still get pummeled in STX next year, but will have plenty of fun.
Cheers,
Charlie
Here is mine this weekend on NM 17x7.5 with 225/45/17 RE71Rs...fit and work great. I'm thinking of getting the 17x8's bored to 66.6 and 245/40/17s...after Camber Plates I "think" I can squeeze them in...
Passenger on Run #1
Last edited by Darbys2019MiniJCW; 06-23-2019 at 08:23 AM.
245/40-17 is right on the edge of fitting that width wheel. It will be interesting if you go that route and it all fits. If nothing else those tires will look really beefy on the car...
How would you go about getting those bored out to 66.6mm? I see Charlie went to Supreme, but would you have to arrange to have them drop shipped there? And you are looking at, what, about $200+ a wheel to get them bored?
Hey, I’d suggest meeting you half way to take your 7.5” wide wheels off your hands if you did do this, but that would be a thousand mile hike for both of us...
Then, again, road trip? I haven’t done MOTD, yet...
Mine was at basically zero when I had mine checked and -2 in the rear.
Interesting. And a -0.15 up above. I plan to get mine checked when I go in for my end-of-breakin-period oil change (Yup, I’ll pay through the nose for that one, but it will be worth it). I wonder which end of the scale MINI targets for when they build the cars? From those numbers it looks like they aim for the zero end.
The -2 in the rear is probably a good number and would work well with a -1 or more negative in the front.
Interesting. And a -0.15 up above. I plan to get mine checked when I go in for my end-of-breakin-period oil change (Yup, I’ll pay through the nose for that one, but it will be worth it). I wonder which end of the scale MINI targets for when they build the cars? From those numbers it looks like they aim for the zero end.
The -2 in the rear is probably a good number and would work well with a -1 or more negative in the front.
There seems to be no adjustability of front camber when stock. The rear I use NM Eng adjustable bar links on the bottom... I have some Vorschlag Camber Plates on order from WMW but have no idea when they will be ready of shipped...
05-21-2019, 05:13 AM
BMS Short Throw Clutch Stop for BMW, Mini Cooper, and Volkswagen × 1
