so while it "remembers" your last setting, if you EVER switch it to green mode, it will go back to default which is "on"

correct. And with coding it will be "off" no matter what mode you last used.

 

I guess our rental 2015 MINI was off because the stop/start happened no matter what setting it was in Sport/normal/green. I feel our R56 is considerably faster but that's judging it by the rental which could have had issues.

 

Both cars stock the F56 is roughly a half second quicker 0-60. And IMO feels even faster since its torquier. The softer suspension gives a better ride but at the cost of handling. Springs or coils fixs that issue and still gives a more refined ride.

 

The fact that it can comfortably cruise at 100mph all day long says its a BMW.

 

After driving the F31 I can confirm the F56 feels exactly like a BMW. Which is a great thing IMO.

 

When I ordered my F55 S an F31 M-line was my 2nd choice. The MINI was a little more fun, the BMW a little more spacious...but similarly equipped they were $20K apart.

 

Ended up with a VW.
would have lived a GTI, but due to needing to drive lots of miles for a couple of years, got a TDI jetta...averaging 50+mpg, and OK for fun...kinda getting my feet wet with vw...maybe a GTI or type-R in the future, but just hate the thought of a first year model (golf), new factory (mexico)...so maybe on the refresh in a couple years when my need for a high mile highway car is not needed...
Would have loved the 5 door, best of both worlds, but the looks...and questions surrounding lack of a track record...figured I'd sit it out...see how it goes. To me the new MINI'S seem to be just another car...not really evoking anything unique in terms of capabilities... still has the basic mini look, on a BMW chassis... But that of and in itself DOES have some heart baggage...
Gen1 and even the gen2 cars seemed separate enough from BMW to be independent... But the gen3, though great cars in many respects, seem to be made as more of a feeder car for BMW... Grooming future owners to grow into a more $$ BMW....
Kinda like a Nissan and Infiniti, or prhaps most like Scion, Toyota and Lexus, or even Honda and Acura....
The fact that pricing and performance of MINI cars are closely watched and controlled to ensure they NEVER OVERLAP means even though BMW claims they are separate, They do not want any overlapping market shares....which by definition makes one a feeder for the other...

 

Aye...but in which direction? I LOVED my BMW E30...a little light on the power side but the steering, shifter, and chassis were a revelation. Fast forward a few years (well...admittedly more than a few) and the non-M 3-series is a luxury sedan to fall asleep in.

 

Aye. The E30, especially the M version is the holy grail of driver's cars. Can't compare a FWD car to that.
All things said I think the new Mini is a much more fun car to drive than any new BMW sedan.

 

You guys BOTH prove that BMW is making the MINI more of a BMW....
Nothing bad with BMW, but BMW is not a MINI...or wasn't till now.
When folks start to compare the gen3 cars to various BMW'S, and the owners are prior BMW owners, and the MINI folks are largely gone, or much thinned....kinda proves the point...
Many mini folks cross shopped mini vs BMW, usually the 1 series, or the 3, and chose the mini for superior feel...being more of a drivers car, and being less over refined so it did not have a bit of a numb feel, and more importantly the MINI culture....
Change does happen, and nothing stays the same, but many of us wonder if there is enough BMW defectors to keep mini alive as a performance brand...the fact the car feels BMW LIKE on a modified BMW chassis is expected...unavoidable with the choices BMW made, just like the cars physical growth ..
The basic changes with the cars seem to confirm BMW agrees, as the cars are more tailored to folks wanting a grocery getter...heck NO SPORT SUSPENSION OR REAR FOGS now....even on a custom ordered car in the US.
That says volumes IMO.

 

MINI's have always been poorly built BMWs. They don't share anything at all with the pre-BMW MINIs. You make the mistake of thinking the MINI enthusiast market matters at all. It never has been large enough to keep the brand alive, MINI's have always under-performed in sales and we've never been more than a very minor percent of those sales.

It's also interesting that you're blasting BMW for making the MINI more mass market friendly and less performance oriented when you ended up in a TDI Jetta...

I'm not saying you're wrong or your opinion doesn't matter, VW's are fine cars. But your opinion would hold a lot more weight if you'd actually gone for an enthusiast car instead of an F56.

 

Actually the car I most compare my new MCS to is my old '97 Boxster - small, quick, and nimble. But not as small and nimble as my old Lotus Elan (but please, please, please dear god please let it be more reliable).

But you are right - with the 'biggening' of the MINI the supply of truly small enthusiast cars has more or less disappeared. People do things to their Scion iQs...but it takes a lot of work to get one to 'enthusiast'. The FIAT 500 Abarth has many issues that take away from it's '160HP in a small body' positioning. I think/hope the new smaller Miata MX-5 will be awesome to drive...but it is a 2 seater and while very light is not particularly short.

At base...I understand and sympathize with your feeling that BMW has ruined the MINI. Partly because I think the same thing about 99% of the BMWs that they sell. But mainly because the 1st gen MINIs were unique and unlike anything sold for a generation (at least in the states).

 

Jumping in this thread late, perhaps I can bring a different perspective to it.

It seems the problem isn't MINI or BMW in particular, but the industry direction, be it planned, forced [legislation], or adrift.

Throughout automotive history, there are many more forgettable cars than memorable landmark cars. I'll hazard a guess that the R50 will be remembered by the enthusiasts community in general as a definitive early 2000's small premium car with statistically sub-par reliability but unique aura that is captivating but not necessarily game changing. It's a subtle distinction; small premium didn't really happen in the USA before the MINI, but it also hasn't had a big impact on the way most people buy cars.

The MINI has an interesting facet where it prioritizes fun and individualism over pretty much everything else. It also happened to handle better than most other front drivers at the time, combined with more visceral feedback and great steering feel that is still among the best modern cars.


The whole automotive industry is perhaps hyper-focused on making cars "better". By that it means quieter, quicker, more efficient, better materials, more features, and still turn a profit for the company. One-upmanship is a big part of it, that hasn't changed, but perhaps the detail of scrutiny is at an all-time high. If an automaker can't brag about "best in class" then the car is considered a failure; it's a digital metric but it quickly allows for losing track of brand identity and varying demographics. I think this is why so many enthusiasts are upset at MINI and BMW; they've made the F56 "better" at the expense of the overall experience behind the wheel. There isn't much for an alternative either, since the rest of the industry is pushing for the same "better".

I currently DD an Abarth. It is the one current new car that reminds me most of the R53 from behind the wheel, despite being very different. It's unapologetic in its flaws, just as the R53. The attitude is similar; they're brothers from another mother.

Another point to consider is we're all growing older, so our core frame of reference is likely staying still [whether you think it is or not], and as such we can see the concept drift from R53, R56, and F56 happen "live". But think of it another way. When the 1955 Chevy came out, it was revolutionary. Everything before it was suddenly "old". I'm sure plenty of people either hated it, or thought it was the next best thing, it all depended on the frame of reference.

I do think the thread title is loaded. The R53 was never "Mini", other than Rover started the project, and then BMW scrapped most of it. The VIN tag always said "BMW". I do think the F56 is the "most BMW", given the engine is now full-on BMW. That's really the biggest change. The R53 was "most American", the R56 "most French", and the F56 is now "most BMW".

$0.02

 

I like this thread. Very honest feedback coming from people with a lot of experience.

I'll weigh in a bit as well. When I bought my '05 MINI (r50) used in 2008, the other MINI drivers out on the road were genuinely enthusiasts or at least enjoyed the niche market. I would say about 75% of other owners would give the 'MINI wave' while driving around town. Our cars were unique and many people turned their heads or smiled when they saw my car. There were lots of quirks about the r50 and r53 but they were both so raw. The deceleration burble was addicting and the steering was second to none.

When I bought my r56S to replace my r50 I was immediately impressed with the added power and torque, and I did like how refined it seemed in comparison to my old car. The pan. sunroof was awesome with the double opening feature, the mood lighting, the more comfortable ride paired with great handling, etc. I was extremely happy with the car and I got a bit of the mod bug. Dedicated summer wheels and tires, DoS CAI, ALTA hard intake pipe, AP tune, and a few minor cosmetic changes. It was probably the most fun car I have ever owned, granted I haven't owned too many cars in my life.

Fast forward to now and I'm driving a 2012 Civic Si coupe. The 2012 model year is the year that consumer reports tore apart Honda for using lackluster materials and how it wasn't a big leap forward from the outgoing 8th generation model. For 2013 they added more soft-touch materials to the dash, put an extra 100 or so lbs of sound deadening around the car for lower noise levels, and mildly changed the exterior to the sedan version. Personally, I think the '12 is a great year because it's over 100 lbs lighter, the dash is easy to clean with just a single swiffer wipe, and the lessened sound deadening makes the exhaust note and engine induction noise audible enough to make the car sound really good when driven hard. My first reaction when driving the car is that it reminded me a bit of the r50 with some of its raw mannerisms. The exhaust note is great and the sound of the K24Z7 block is straight from a race car I swear. I also realized that I missed having a NA car, despite losing a bit of torque obviously.

I guess that point I'm trying to make is that sometimes a step back is a step forward. Yes, my new car has bluetooth audio streaming and a fancy digital dash yadda yadda, but it still seems a bit more of a driver's car somehow.

From reading this thread through it appears that the F56 has lost a bit of its soul compared to the outgoing models. What this means for the brand is that it will likely have more sales, but the enthusiast may move on to better things like a miata or a GT-86.

 

Well said!!

As for my choice of a "non enthusiasts car", well, sometimes practicality has a silver lining...
For me, I would rather spend 2 years in a laid back 4 door, then sell it, go back to a 2 door hatch.....thinking VW type r, basicly a better gti...if I bought a hatch today, it would be a 4 Dr golf...and IMO, just too big for the $$ to be very fun...but in a few years, who know what the choices will be, simple fact is I needed a car, and nothing was compelling enough to plunk $35-40k down, so I picked up a $20k 50 mpg car to run 25,000 miles a year for for 2 years...lol..if that reduces my credibility cause I went out of a market segment, so be it..

Simple fact is the mini started the century as an icon that you had to wait 6+ months to get a car you ordered...dealers had ZERO cars on the lot going back to 2002-to late 2005, other than a demo car, and sometimes a used car...and sales were at full retail+...
To have folks say they sold slow, and lagged...lol...it was all about ONE FACTORY, AND ONE PRODUCTION LINE... And a very limited number if dealers till 2006+...
The mini brand HAS been grown, and more folks introduced to its joys.
Sure...we all get older, and priorities change...but some things never change, and an iconic car is memorable.... Its just sad to see them go from something truly special, to a reskined one series BMW with the long nose camouflaged to make it look like a mini...

 

I have driven many F56's and I think it's an amazing car and dose feel like a BMW... I consider myself a huge MINI fan but I don't feel all that interested in the F56. Had a 07' S which was fun but I always felt it was gong to blow when I would take to high RPM's, now in a 13' JCW with a N18 motor and I must say what a difference. Damn thing still surprises me on how smooth and fast it is.

Still feel the R56 is the best looking MINI IMO, Funny I always thought the R53 was raw while the R56 was more refined but after driving a F56 my JCW feels pretty raw now.

 

Nothing wrong with that, I've been headed in the same direction. If I sell my F56 (which I don't consider to be an enthusiast car), my daily will be a 3 series diesel wagon and that'll allow me to focus on a fun ultra-enthusiast project car/bike on the side.

 

Well said.

It makes me wonder how many are using the F56 as their "refined fun daily" and have a sports car or project on the side. Me and at least a few others on this forum are certainly in that category.

 

I like this thread too. As a hard-core autocrosser, I loved the Works R53 (STX, DS), adored the R56 (HS), and am now completely enamored of the B38 equipped F56 (GS).

I do not have any sports car projects on the side, and still find the Gen 3 (2014) F56 platform remarkably capable in competition. One of the unexpected gifts hiding inside the GS car is the undersquare B38 which when coupled with a very long 2nd gear makes the drive train beautifully matched to the 35-65 mph speed range required by SCCA competition.

Here's the B38 stretching its legs - with great traction, no body roll, and quick reflexes.


So I do not bemoan the progress, although the Sport Suspension being withdrawn does strike me as a bit of a pity.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

I had a 2007 MCS manual, I now have a 2014 JCW Coupe, and my friend bought an F56 MCS in February which I've driven. Her car is a lot quieter, and the interior looks a little better. I love the seats. It's a little quicker than my 2007 was. Handling about the same I'd say, different from my Coupe because I have the sport suspension and Coupe's chassis is stiffer like the Roadster convertible (with a top). Ride on hers is more comfortable. It's a great looking daily driver with Mini steering. My car leans a tad bit more toward a track car. I think most Mini owners are happy with their F56. Now when I see the R53 those cars look pretty small in comparison (I saw a lot of those in San Diego last week). Personally if I were test driving the new F56 I'd try a regular Cooper (now with a turbocharger) and manual tranny, I hear you can really rev those babies up and go for it!

 

LOVE that video!!! Great run!

 

Thanks Charlie for the video. I have a Justa with the sport suspension too and love it! Dare I say the Justa is more S than the S!?

 

Ah hah! I suspected I was not the only daft bugger to fall in love with the triple.

Cheers gents!

Charlie

 

That's what I said above! Funny to read this thread. We were just staying on Coronado Island and I saw what seemed like a bunch of R53s around there and SD. I was thinking: someday I'm gonna get a nice 2003 R53 manual transmission and do the pulley and CAI/exhaust thing, lots of checkerboard stuff, etc. That'll be my project classic car instead of a 68 Mustang that I drove in college!

 

It's not a menu option. It's a toggle switch next to the start switch. When the light is on, auto start-stop is disabled. It will remember the setting as long as you don't put it in green mode.