A lot of hate for the Abarth from you throughout this thread.

I've owned both a Mini and the Abarth. The Abarth, believe it or not, offers the more satisfying driving experience overall (as far as my opinion is concerned).

Owning a Mini, you're in no position to talk about quality. I love both brands for different reasons. I hate both brands for different reasons. I feel much pity for an individual who would gladly deny themselves the joy of a vehicle such as the Abarth exclusively to defend the Mini name.

Both vehicle brands can coexist peacefully and easily compliment each other. Both, for various reasons, are on par for value, performance, and driving experience.

I'm so tired of these "" measuring contests on vehicle forums. The fact alone that you feel the need to persistently insult the vehicle brand indicates that it intimidates you, and for good reason. Don't go hating on a car brand you know little of, it makes you appear ignorant and misinformed.

- A fellow Miniac AND Abarth enthusiast.

 

Not to get into the whole manual vs auto debate, but wouldn't higher end sports cars always get the cream of the crop auto-manuals that actually do what you ask of them, while less expensive cars have that nasty slush boxes we all know and hate.

But autos are the future.
I love my manual MINI, but as Tim Allen once said to Jay Leno about less manuals being offered....something along the lines of "embrace it, or would you rather still hand crank your car."

 

The super car market is shifting towards autos because most of their buyers don't actually care about the way the car drives. They use their Ferrari's as most people do Camry's and Corollas. Also, unfortunately the American population continuously has less and less people that know how to drive a manual. The DSG in VW products is still one of the best made. It's nearly as fast as the DCT's in Ferrari's and Maserati's. It doesn't matter what the car costs to have a quick shifting DCT.

 

I'm glad you find enjoyment in your Abarth, but there is a reason they have lost in every comparison against MINI's. The Abarth has less power, is narrower, less fuel efficient, taller, etc... All of those things conspire against the car to make it a less fun and fast car. I never said that quality = reliability. You definitely get a more substantial feeling car with the MINI. The doors are heavy, the steering is firm, the clutch and brakes are typical German, the seats hug you around curves. It's a quality product, it just doesn't have a reliable record. There is a reason that FIAT sold less cars this year than they did before. Even with the addition of the L model, the 500 is subpar to the MINI in every respect. It screams look at me, with the boy-racer straight piped exhaust, but when the Cooper S pulls up beside it, the Abarth doesn't know what to do. You can't tell me that the 500 will out perform a MINI in any aspect.

 

I just now read the second part of your response, and literally spit my drink out laughing. Fiat, so scary and intimidating. Ohhhhh no. Not a 500!!! If what I said wasn't true, you wouldn't have felt the need to respond to it. You probably regret buying the ABARTH, and are trying to make yourself feel better about your purchase. I drove the Abarth several times before buying the MINI. Each time I grew to hate the Fiat more.

 

Who gets to define a "true enthusiast"....you? I would submit that I am more likely to be a "true enthusiast" than you are, having owned and driven many more true sports cars than you are likely to have driven.

 

Will you two please stop comparing the size of your penises?

Thank you.

 

It's called a debate. Look it up. It's a common item on discussion forums, which is what this is. Nobody makes you read it.

 

Okay, fair enough. Nothing in there about the argument being thoughtful, reasonable or civil.

Perhaps I should learn not to step into these "I'm better than you are" arguments…

 

Any chance we can get this thread back on topic? Auto versus manual has been debated in many other threads.

 

I like semi-automatics;-) haha. Agreed though back to the lovely F56...yuck. Can't wait to test drive it in March/April.

 

For a company car, I found 2 - 6 speed manual transmission Mazda 6's. Wow......a lot of fun. Mazda will never replace my Mini though. As a company car......well!

 

An abarth costs way less than an s. You're comparing two very different price points here.

 

The Abarth has substantial power for its lighter weight, is more fuel efficient, better engineered, lower priced, and much more spirited than the latest MINI models.

It's easy to take an opinion and selectively point things out to support your view, although I suggest you check your facts before posting incorrect information: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32877&id=33028

I agree and disagree with you on this point. The MINI is a more substantial feeling vehicle indeed. More luxurious with a touch of sportiness, but you're also paying considerably more for that luxury.

The ABARTH on the other hand, feels like a true performance vehicle. All focus on the engines mechanical prowess and sophisticated engineering, less effort on interior finishings and unnecessary frills.

Quality and reliability go hand in hand. MINIs are higher luxury subcompacts with low quality components and engineering. We'll see if BMW has managed to fix that with this new generation, although they've certainly missed the mark when it comes to styling.

Sorry, but if manliness has become a topic of the debate, neither the MINI or ABARTH will win this round. On that note, I quite appreciate the spirited straight pipe exhaust, and many of the vehicles design cues are very beautifully executed and classical in nature. The interior is comfortable and well designed. It wonderfully embodies the spirit a sub-compact performance vehicle should have.

The ABARTH absolutely has the MINI beat in value and owner satisfaction, and I'm not the only former MINI owner who feels this way. We can throw around comparisons all day long, how does the car feel to drive? There are ABARTH owners who own Ferraris and Porsche models who have gladly stated the ABARTH brings them more satisfaction than either.

Your MINI is too busy being towed into the garage for repairs. Better check that chain tensioner!

I felt the need to respond because it's an incredibly ignorant and biased opinion. Out of respect for the MINI community, they should hear the truth about the Abarth from a fellow MINI owner. A former MINI owner who has been tremendously satisfied with the Abarth and will gladly proclaim it a worthy performance vehicle. Not surprisingly, a good 2/3rds of the Abarth community is composed of fellow or former MINI owners. Do you truly feel your single controversial opinion is more valid than our collective one?

Not at all Mr. Raleigh. I do however very much regret having purchased my R56, having chosen to overlook the glaringly obvious reliability issues to enjoy the points you so proudly mention. Regrettably my experience with the MINI was a very bitter one, ending with the fact that that I had to spend $8000 + labour to repair my vehicle after the transmission failed at a very low 50,000 miles. That's not considering the value loss I had on my hands associated with the dying vehicle that sat in my driveway.

I should be commended for the fact I still admire the MINI brand despite BMWs involvement and my terrible ownership experience. The last of the great MINIs was the the R53 model, and if you willingly deny that then I truly don't know what else to say to you. The Abarth reminds many of the glorious days of the R53. A vehicle focused on fun and spirited performance in a tiny and well assembled package. Perhaps you've lost your way and fail to see that, in which case you may not even be deserving to drive a MINI. Turn your keys in, go buy yourself a mini van, and call it a day old man.

Whether you enjoy steak or ribs, we're all BBQ lovers here. Show some love for your fellow hot hatch or take your negativity elsewhere. A true enthusiast appreciates all vehicles. Talk about someone in denial...

Long live the age of the hot hatch:

 

Please remember, this is a Mini forum, so lets talk about Mini's not other automobiles that are trying to be like a Mini. If you want to talk about the other automobile models, do so on their forums.

Second, BMW has once again failed in the design. I saw the 2014 Cooper S in person at the San Francisco Auto Show and the front end is just " Butt Ugly "sorry but its not like the original Mini from long ago.

The original Mini has more appeal than this new Mini will ever be.

 

So was the R56/R57 changes as negatively received after the MINI went from supercharger to turbocharger and the looks changed a bit and the body got a little bigger and wider? I love the R56/57 gen Coopers the most and am not feeling much interest in the new 2014 Hardtop or the changes that may come to the cabrio. It will definately have to grow on me. That said I tend to agree that they will be popular, and they will sell well. I just am not wowed at the moment and breathing a sigh of relief I was able to order one of the last gen R57 models. I do hope the new versions will have equal or greater appeal as time goes on.

 

I trade in my 07 S yesterday on a 2013 Justa so I could get a new Mini before the 2014's come out. Dealer asked why I was trading in and when I told him, he said that every year they have a waiting list for the new cars about now, but this year no waiting list.

 

Now that's putting your money where your mouth is! I admire that.

Wow, now that would be alarming to me if I were BMW. Does anyone remember if the 2007 R56 had that problem? Did it just take a bit for buyers to warm up to it? Or was it an instant seller?

Sent from my iPhone using NAMotoring

 

no comment

 

That's what we did. We got Bertie before you couldn't get R56 MINIs anymore. Though we haven't sold Tristan yet.

 

I read the first half of this thread but pretty much nothing new was offered up after that so I'll add my nonsense. I just picked up my fifth MINI two weeks ago, a lightly used 2011 S. Prior to that were an R53S, another R56S, and two R56 JCW's, I guess you can say I like them. I much preferred the R56 to the R53 although so much handwringing still goes on over that distinction. I would say there is a much better than average chance that I will purchase an F56 JCW when they arrive in 2015. Cars stand still for no one, I love updates on a theme.
Porsche folks say the exact same thing about each new generation of the 911 (we're up to Gen VII now) and yet each new version is better in almost every tangible way than the one before it, and will sell like hotcakes to both prior owners and new customers. The F56 will be exactly the same. Many of you who now bemoan it will own one, mark my words.
Carry on.

 

I agree, there will be a fair number of people buying the new F56. But the S and the JCW styling, especially the front end and the tail lights, are a real turnoff for a lot of us.

I am of course ok with more powerful and efficient engines, and even a slightly larger car, if it has more room inside. But I cannot live with a car that just looks awful to me. There are too many other choices out there. My choice, at least for the next few years is to keep my 2007 R56S. I love it, including the way it looks, and was hoping for a better car in the new one. But that includes looks, as well as performance. I think they have screwed up the former, and we will see about the latter.

This reminds me of what Chris Bangle did at BMW to the 5 and 7 series styling years ago, with the bump on the trunks, and the weird taillights. A lot of people were turned off by that, and went elsewhere.

BMW has now come back, and most of their cars look stunning. in my view.

But I really think that Mini has shot themselves in the foot with the F56 styling.

 

Still waiting on specifics like weight (although 1 article I read said 60-90lbs heavier), mpg, and if the S will finally get a spare tire!

 

The R56 was about 60-90 lbs lighter than the R53, the F56 has gained it back, so it's almost exactly where the R53 was. The F56 is still a VERY small car by current standards and very light one as well.

 

Are you sure about this? from my research both the R53 and R56 weighed about the same.