I've done several searches, and I've looked at Innovate Motorsports' product lineup (which includes some awesome stuff) and at the "Think Geek" site, and so on, but have not seen one particular item that I think would be cool. Sorry if I have not done my homework well, but...

I'm thinking of a device that simply plugs into the OBDII "port" under the dash and records all of the data for a time period that the user selects, and then can be downloaded (EASILY) to a PC or Mac for viewing and analysis.

Maybe I am doing a poor job of my search, or maybe I am not recognizing the item when I see it, but I finally have given up, and am asking you for help.

Is there such an animal? I have seen many items that need sensors installed, gauges, OBDII devices that tell you what the codes mean, etc. but not what I am thinking about.

Does anyone know of such a device for the pre-2007 models (i.e., non-CAN-equipped)??

Thanks in advance.

 

Do a Google Search on "OBD data logger", and there will be a bunch of relevant hits. I found a few that will log up to 75 hours of OBD data for later retrieval and transfer to a PC.

 

is the gizmo you're looking for. It's dongle sized, plugs into the connector, and just loggs the six (I think it's six) variables that you choose. The problem is the serial OBD-II interface/protocol. It's god awful slow, and most of the lower end OBD data loggers don't support something called "streaming mode" (this just spits the same variables out the diagnostic port as fast as it can, without the logger asking for a data packet. This gives about a 2x-3x speed increase, from a hertz or less to a few hertz data rates. Most loggers don't let you get more from the OBD port as the data is so slow it takes forever to get packets, and you can't see any transients.


If you want something that plugs into a computer, try "Scan Gauge II" I think... It's about $70 and is a protocol conversion adaptor. IT's driven by a serial port on a computer.

If you like to roll your own, Elm makes some OBD_II driver chips that you can build your own interface around....

Matt
Matt

 

Risquiscott - Thanks. I'll see what I can dig up with that search. I think I tried to get too clever with my Googling.

Doc O - Thanks. I saw the Scan Gauge II, but I didn't understand that in itself it was a logger in addition to allowing one to display four variables at any one time on the small screen. However, perhaps it can load the data onto a PC AS one drives, so that, with the right software, one could later do some analysis??

I'll check out the CarChip E/X.

 

that moves to the computer very easily. It's just somewhat limited due to OBD-II bandwidth. What are you trying to see? It also can only access the standard OBD variables. So on the S, you can get T-MAP values, but you can't get the readings of the upstream MAP sensor.

If you're looking at things like coolant temp, IATs and the like, OBD data loggers are fine. If you want to hunt illusive fast transients, then you're looking at tapping into the wiring harness and some real data logging equipment.

Matt

 

Doc O --

"Fast transients," eh? Well, I don't know, but my guess is that the ignition timing might be one of those?

What I am after is data that would help a tuner (maybe me, but more likely a pro) determine how/when BEST to trigger either or both a water injection system and my Alta IC squirter that is part of the "diverter."

My thought is that serious study of the OBDII data would make clear, or even obvious, various conditions that cause the spark to be retarded, and in that way, would allow one to set up the anti-detonation systems to go "into action" so as to PREVENT the knock and so PREVENT timing retard.

I know that the EMS monitors conditions in -- and adjusts the timing advance "accordingly" in -- each cylinder individually, and such; and that the whole process happens very quickly. However, I thought that by studying the various synchronized "lines" of data: MAP, Timing, Temps, etc -- all the things the EMS responds to and controls -- that one could try to use the anti-detonation systems to minimize the problems.

Is this a crazy/stupid idea? or just not feasible using the type of equipment we're talking about here?

Sort of OT, but it's "MY" thread, sooo...Something interesting (to me, anyway) I recently went to Fireballed as a "post-tune" visit due to a SES/EMS "hiccup". Brian and Dr. Fuh did three things at that visit, and ever since, the car has REALLY pulled stronger than ever before (so says my butt dyno):
1) they reset the ECU "learning" system (I know that is not the right term, but sorry)
2) they checked my plugs to read them for AFR overall quality AND to torque them down properly (two of them were pretty loose!) (they really looked pretty good: not a lot of deposits, and a nice light color little or no pitting)
3) they checked the code thrown and cleared it (turned out to be a sort of a "nuisance" code.

After all that, Brian mentioned that they have found through experience that resetting the learning ("adaptive"?) software can be beneficial.

The car has never run so well! I think maybe torquing the too-loose plugs and the "reset" must have helped, since I did nothing else and the ca ran better immediately upon leaving their parking lot.

What do you think? Does that make sense, or am I imagining things?

 

First, the combinations of conditons that lead to timing retard are complex and many. So without some multivariate analysis, it's hard to map the control surface boudary where the transitions occure. That's a bad news.

While each inginitions event is rather short, you can see the timing pull curve in a power run, even with pretty low (a few samples per second) data logging. This is a good news.

But with OBD-II, you can't get lots of data samples if you have lots of variables, so it's hard to really map the retard event to a specific engine state. This is not so good news.

But what will you use to control the actions? Will it just be IATs? Or MAP? or EGT? Really, you only need to log the control variables that you're thinking of using vs knock window energy (or timing if your logger can't get that one), and find settings that help most of the time. This is rather neutral news....

As far as DME resets, there are two type of numbers that get done. One is adaptation values. These change as the car state changes to keep the car A/F ratios on target. While I don't have the tuning software anyone is using, I'm rather baffeled here. No matter where you start, the adaptation for closed loop operation should get you to the same place, so clearing it would only give you a short term change while it relearns it's old settings. That would be unless the adaptation algorithm can get "lost" in a region where it thinks things are as good as they can be, but it's wrong. This would be a bad adaptation circuit...

But overall, I'd be worried about a tune that "reverts" to it's old settings. This would tell me that the wrong bits are being changed. After all, somewhere in those binaries are the real targets that the ECU adapts to, and that's what the tuners should be hacking, not some intermediate table that can revert over time to less than optimal targets.

But there is another type of variable that's done with a true DME rest, and those are things like throttle body limits for full open and full closed. I could see this really helping with idle quality a lot. I'm sure there are other items that are learned as well, I just don't know what they are.

Hope some of this helps.....

Matt

 

Thanks, Doc.

But geez!! This makes me yearn for the days when I gapped and installed new plugs, got out the strobe, looked for the mark and rotated the distributor until I was happy with the location and the sound! Oh, yeah; and fiddled with the carb.

It's running really well. I guess I should just be happy.

 

my water injection is governed by a simple pressure (boost) switch. Even though I used to do all that MVA stuff for the Semi industry.... So what you're doing has merit, just choose something simple to trigger from, see where to set it, and leave it at that. That's some good news!

Matt

 

I don't see any reason to reinvent the anti-detonation triggering mechanism.

But I just can[t help but ask some stupid questions anyway. Why boost rather than, say IAT or another relevant temperature?

Is the switch on its own pressure sensor, or does it somehow share/use the OEM MAP sensor data?

Do you also have a boost gauge? If so, does that gauge use the same sensor as the switch?

Bet you didn't expect to conduct a seminar.

I really appreciate this, Doc. Thanks.

 

Why not get a whole package and buy the MaxQData system. It logs both your OBDII data AND the acceration and G-forces your car creates. You can get 0-60 times, max G's....heck you can even set it up to time your laps at a track day.

Point is, that it will record any of the OBDII data that you want and you'll have a lot more fun with it.

http://www.maxqdata.com/products.htm

But if I'm way off base with this idea.....sorry.

 

Interesting gadgets. I haven't tracked the car yet, but would like to in the future. The car will continue to be a DD for a while yet. At least another 18 mos. or so. After that, I'm not sure.

I might invest in one of these if and when I go racing. Depends partly on $$ and some other variables. We'll see.

It will probably be some time before that, though. I've bookmarked the site.

Thanks.

 

Looks like this this software will let you record OBDII data to a Palm device. http://www.auterraweb.com/
Just ordered it myself to play with.

 

Gnatster - That looks like the right stuff. Are you planning to run that on a laptop, or an in-car PC? If the latter, what PC and display are you considering?

Thanks.

 

that will run off of a PDA or a laptop. Here's a hint... The OBD-II connector in the Mini isn't that good. The cable will come down and you'll keep hitting it with your clutch foot. If you take off the knee thinggy, there is a blue locking slide on the OBD connector. Push this toward the front of the car, then push the OBD-II pin block out of the connector housing by opening the cover, and pushing up from below. Then you can plug your cable in, and wrap it around the black plastic bar (About knee height) to bring it over to the central consol.

The nice thing about the CarChip is that it's small enough to plug in without issue. But no real time display.

Before you buy, do some googling... There's Auterra, AutoEnginutity has something similar, but with BMW/Mini extensions (and higher price point). There's a generic called Scan Guage II (about $70 last time I looked) that covers all standard codes. There's also a lot of freeware supporting it.

Matt

 

The owner of MaxQData told me that there is a OBDII device that's bluetooth. You can plug it in to your OBDII port and his Pocket PC software will record BOTH the bluetooth GPS signal (for the fun stuff!) and the bluetooth enabled OBDII port. I can't find any details about it on his site, but you can get an idea of what the possibilities are from this photo:

 

Another ODB II device you may want to look at is the Auto Enginuity tool
http://www.autoenginuity.com/
This hooks up via USB or Serial to your PC and think there is also a bluetooth option.
If you get the Advanced connector for the BMW/MINI you can get alot more readings and I believe the software has good logging too. I have been meaning to get one, but its a little spendy.

It is worth the look.

Arty

 

Will be using a Treo 680 with an SD card to capture the data. From there I'll load it on either the desktop or laptop to view.

To supkiment this I'm also installing a G2X to capture oil temp, water temp, oil pressure, A/F Ratio and boost. I'll eventually add other sensors to capture braking force and throttle postion along with the G2X's built in track mapping and g-force data. From tehre I intend on adding a video system and the ability to overlay all the data onto the video.

Yeah, it's way overkill, but thats become my middle name.

 

Thanks for all the info, arty and gnatster!! I'm starting to feel mufch better-educated on this stuff.

 

I put the brain under the driver seat.... Haven't gotten the external sensors yet, but they're in the game plan....

Matt

 

How do you access the SD card in the brain if it's under the seat? We are scratching our heads as to where to place the brain and still have it accessable

 

and cut through the carpet. It's about 3/4" thick with pad. Then you slide the seat back, and just reach under the front edge of the seat, and there's more than enough room to grab it.

PM me with your e-mail and I'll send you some photos...

Matt