Hi, I am in the process of replacing the N18 engine in my 2011 Mini Cooper S R56 with an N18 engine taken from a 2013 Mini Cooper S Convertible R57. Got the "new" engine in, crank it, and what do you know, does not work too well. It starts -- just barely -- but it does not sound so good. Dies in a couple of seconds leaving the engine flooded. I am pretty sure the culprit is how the ECU is driving the high pressure fuel pump. In 2012, Mini replaced the notorious Continental HPFP with a Bosh. I had assumed that the electronics driving the two pumps would be identical (yes, I probably should have looked into this before ), but it turns out that is not the case and MINI changed the ECU that year as well. Based on my noobish understanding of BMW electronics, it looks like I have several (electronic) options at this point:
1. Put in the DME/CAS/etc from the 2013 donor, and:
a) reprogram all the remaining modules to match donor VIN, milage
b) or, reprogram the DME/CAS from the 2013 to match the 2011 VIN, milage, and features
2. Keep my 2011 ECU but flash it with the 2013 version of the firmware. (i.e. replace MEVD17.2.2 with MEVD17.2.7)

Several questions:
1. Is my understanding correct?
2. WRT option 1. is (a) or (b) preferable? Why?
3. What problems am I likely to have with option 1? (MILs, malfunctions, etc. )
4. Is option 2 even feasible?
5. If option 2 is feasible, can it be done with the standard BMW flashing software?
6. If option 2 is feasible, is there a risk that the new firmware will continue to believe the engine has Continental HPFP? (i.e. based on the VIN or some other information?)

Thanks in advance.

 

welcome aboard.....you should also post pix of your mini

The answer to your question is you could do option 1a but that will lead you to option 1b. option 2 wont work because what's driving the circuit is the hardware which should match the firmware. the new option you have and is actually the easiest is you copy the EEPROM from the original ECU and write it in the donor ECU. (the eeprom contains the security code matches by the CAS). you still need to get the ECU from the donor car and I assume you pulled the engine harness with it to swap, right?

 

Ain't she grand?

 

Hey Mini2Be, thanks for the quick reply! Great to be here. As to your questions, yes, I have the 2013 engine hooked up with the 2013 harness to my 2011 electronics. So far I've not tried hooking up any of the 2013 electronics. As I mentioned, my attempts to start the car did not go well, but otherwise electronics are functioning rather normally. Attempts to start the car threw a P0001 code and the ABS light is on for some reason, but otherwise nothing seems amiss.

So, what you are saying is that the MEVD1722 and MEVD1727 have real hardware differences. I've been trying to get google to answer this question, without any luck. On the one hand, I found it kind of hard to believe that the HPFP change would /require/ new ECU hardware. Did they run out of PWM pins or something? On the other hand, 1727 != 1722., so there's that. Ok, so simple reflash of my 2011 MEVD1722 DME with some variant of the MEVD1727, is not going to work.

Now, as to copying the EEPROM, sounds to me like you are advising that I skip the donor CAS/immobilizier/etc, and copy *all* the vehicle-specific bits (including vehicle access keys) from my 2011 DME to the 2013 DME, so that all the other modules are none the wiser that anything at all has changed. I'd continue to use my 2011 keyfob, see my 2011 VIN in the diagnostics, see my 2011 milage. This would seem to require some professional assistance, or physical access to a JTAG interface and/or some not-generally-available knowledge, right? I've not come across anything in the forums on how to perform such a procedure using only a K/DCAN cable and the standard tooling. Or am I wrong here?

Thanks for all your help!

 

The change of ecu is not just the version no. Looking at the wiring diagram, the Bosch hpfp is wired to different pins than the continental one.

The eeprom contains the info needed for the CAS to "pair" with the ecu. And it contains the VIN too.

Ktag is the tool you need to rear/write the file. It took me years to discover this simple process when before that i used to pay $250 for every clone service, and i had to pay for a handful of them.

 

Dumb question but couldn't you just swap over your old Conti pump onto the new engine? That way the DME is seeing the pump it expects to see. You would be sticking with the old (problematic?) HPFP but perhaps that is easier than major programming surgery.

 

jwzimm, not a dumb question, but I have a dumb answer for you! When I was looking for a replacement engine and I came across the 2013 donor, I did some cursory research that left me convinced that the old Conti pump would not work on the new 2013 engine (true in a sense), and that I should ask the seller of the 2013 donor to include the HPFP in the deal. The seller asked me if I needed the harness or anything else from the engine, and I said nope, just the Bosh HPFP would suffice, as I had everything else. Ok, so I got the 2013 engine and it was sitting shrink-wrapped in my barn for a few months as I did not have time to do the swap. When I finally pealed the (very black) shrink wrap, low and behold, I am looking at a complete engine with everything you can imagine (even the AC compressor!) all bolted on, nicely hooked up to a pristine harness. At this point, I can't believe my luck and quickly unload my Conti pump on ebay (it went real fast!). To be honest, I completely dismissed using the Conti until you asked your "dumb question", but now I don't see why not it couldn't have worked. The Conti pump hooks up directly to the cam while the Bosh pump has a driver, but I don't see why I couldn't just take the driver off, bolt on the old Conti (if I still had one), and call it a day. But, in my defense, I can offer some ex-post rationalizations:
1. The 2013 engine was basically plug-and-play, pristine like-new condition. If I wanted to use the old Conti pump, I'd have to mess with the new engine and switch out the wiring harness.
2. I'd be left with a notoriously unreliable and expensive-to-replace HPFP under my hood.
But in retrospect, yeah, seems like it would have been easier.

 

I think @Rich B. had a similar scenario with his engine. there is a check valve you need to move over too because the Bosch hpfp gets oil from the engine unlike the continental hpfp. you also still have to replace the high side fuel rail. in the grand scheme of things, you upgraded your engine to a more reliable unit. as with anything else, an additional cost to swap the eeproms.

Ktag is affordable and easy to use.

finally, I feel the N18 with the bosch hpfp is more responsive and quicker...that's just me

 

interesting, realoem diagrams seem to confirm this. Plug (#7) in the diagram below is present only on the heads w/ Continental pump, and the part numbers on the head are different. So maybe it wasn't crazy to dismiss the idea of using the conti hpfp. thanks MiniToBe, I feel better now.

 

Ok, so I got myself the 2013 DME and a KTAG unit and am about to take a part the old DME to read it. Now, what bits (i.e. EEPROM address range) do I need to copy from my old unit to the new unit so that the ISN syncs with the my CAS? Can I just copy the whole thing? Is there some resource for EEPROM maps of these things?
Thanks.

 

Reed the full eeprom from the old and write it to the donor ecu. The whole file. Swapping the ISN isnt going to work because it is save in different addresses and then you would need to figure out the staring bits. So for that reason copy over the whole eeprom 👍

 

Ok, so we have reason to believe that the 17.2.7 MEDV of the 2013 has the same EEPROM map as my old 17.2.2? I just read the old ECU. Looking through the hexdump, I see the 7 digit tail of my VIN all over the place. Will that be a problem? Will I need to do firmware update, update UIF/AIF?
Thanks.

 

Don't over think it. For now just write this eeprom to the donor ecu. Run the car and check for codes, if any.

 

It starts ! No codes! (yet). Thanks mini2be!

 

Music to my ears brother...glad your happy

 

Ok, happy ending. After some weird misfire issues easily resolved by swapping in my old spark plugs and ignition coils into the new engine, everything was up and running and I took the 2011-hardtop-***-2013-convertible Franken-Mini for a spin and survived to tell the tale. Runs great, feels like a new car. Recap for posterity if anyone should try the Conti (pre-2012) to Bosch (post-2012) HPFP engine swap:

The bad news:
0. you can't just bolt on your conti pump to a newer (post-2012) engine as the newer engines have certain oil passages blocked off. So unless you want to **** around with that, you'll need to get a Bosch pump with your new post-2012 engine.
1. your existing wiring harness won't work as the Conti and Bosch are wired to different set of DME pins, so you'll either need to swap a couple of wires on your harness, or get a post-2012 harness.
2. your existing ECU (MEDV 17.2.2) won't work. Engines with Bosch pumps require the MEDV 17.2.7 ECU. Both ECUs have the same Infeon Tricore MPU/CPU, but PCB layout is different and has different physical profile (it is ~2cm deeper). So you will need to get yourself a post-2012 ECU.
3. your existing plastic ECU bracket / cover won't work as the MEDV 17.2.7 is 2cm deeper.
4. the post-2012 ECU you stick in will need to be cloned with your pre-2012 ECU identity, or the car won't start. so you'll need to get yourself a KTAG or find some other way to read/write from/to a Infeon Tricore.
5. You can read these ECUs with KTAG v3 through the harness connector. But, the cheap Chinese KTAG clones are only on ver 2.2x, which means you'll need to open up both ECUs to solder a lead to the BOOT pin, which is needed to read/write.
6. The BOOT pin on the MEDV 17.2.7 is a little tricky to solder to as it is half-under the CPU. You'll need a magnifying glass or some good eyes.


The good news:
1. it can be done.
2. if you find a complete engine assembly, the swap is quick and easy (unless of course you decide to replace shocks, brakes, drive axle, clutch, while you are at it)
3. you don't need any other electronic modules from the post-2012 donor besides the ECU/DME.
4. there's no trick to cloning, just copy the entire EEPROM section of the flash from old ECU/DME to new ECU/DME.
5, although the new ECU is bigger and won't fit completely into the old bracket / cover (you won't be able to screw in the plastic cover), some long zip ties can be used to make it work.
6. everything will work as it did before the swap.
7. milage, VIN, features, etc will be correct in diagnostics and on the dash.
8. you don't need to update the UIF on the DME if you don't mind seeing a different VIN number for the DME module via ISTA/INPA/etc..

Alternatives Considered:
1. Replace with pre-2012 engine. Easier, but doubt one can find pre-2012 engine with only 25k miles.
2. Bolt on Conti pump to post-2012 engine. Requires messing with the engine to remove plugged passages, check valves, etc. Probably doable, but unless you are rebuilding the engine, seems too involved, and risky. You also would be left with the not-so-great Conti pump.
3. Instead of cloning ECU, replace with post-2012 matched set of ECU and CAS module. Probably would work as well, but the CAS module is very hard to access. To get at it you have to disassemble the whole instrument cluster / glove box section of the car. Would also require lots of coding, as the features / parameters on the donor CAS would be unlikely to match those of the original vehicle.

Thanks to MiniToBe for the wisdom.

 

Super spot on summery. I also want to add that the N18 (continental ) intake camshaft is different than the N18 (Bosch) counterpart.

At the end of the day I am happy for you and I also want to know if you felt any difference in responsiveness or HP between the two

 

hello, I resume this old discussion to ask if it is possible to clone the entire dme mevd 1722 on a mevd1727.
I am asking this because I am also making an engine change from continental pump to bosh pump and I wanted to know if I could reuse my stage 3 rpm mapping. Thanks for the answers.

 

The maps are different between the two because the hardware is different. Ask your tuner if he/she tune the new ECU for different price, since you're a returning customer.

 

I thank you for the answer. If instead I installed an original file for r56 jcw gp would it work?

 

I wish there was an easy answer. I tried this idea on my Paceman where I sourced a JCW ecu. after adding the necessary sensors unique to the JCW and updating my maps, it didn't seem to work right! I got a security code and the engine was in limp mode. Also, the hardware was a bit different with some IC chips or drivers.

if you have the early N18 engine, I think the JCW N18 engine has a Bosch HPFP and so is the GP JCW. you're best bet is to replace the head OR the intake cam along with the fuel pump plate to accept the new setup. of course you have to change the wiring for that too.

 

I have a 2014 mcs engine with bosh pump and dme with the same code as the gp2.
So I was wondering if you could install the gp2 ecu file because apparently the two engines, wiring, injection pumps and dme are the same. From your experience it seemed to me that it cannot be done.

 

sent you a PM.

 

I just made the swap to a 2013 r56 n18 (bosch) replacement into my 2011 r55 n18 (continental).. I used the 2011 harness with the 2011 dme... replaced the Bosch hpfp... installed the new pump with adapter pigtail... only code is for "quantity control valve circuit short to B+" ... replaced high pressure rail sensor as well... other forums have stated that my 12v reading on terminal 1 along with the 3.2v reading on terminal 2 (of the hpfp plug) is cause of faulty dme...

My question is will the pigtail swap work at all? If not, why? A valve is a hot and a ground?? ... by using the original harness with original dme retains the proper pin position at the dme... and the rail sensor is what feeds info to the dme to request that valve to open or close based on fuel needs... also the code only shows up after giving enough throttle for the dme to ask for more fuel from hpfp... at idle I do not get fault

I am newish to mini... not so new to bmw... have followed threads here for a long time.. you all are amazing help... THANK YOU!!!!

 

If you compare the 2 engines, you'll notice thay they are identical except for the hpfp. To accommodate this new pump design, they rewired the ECU and even made it bigger. I think because of that, the Bosch hpfp won't work with the old ECU. The maps must be different and so the output will be different.