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Turn Signals and Dash Control Problems

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Turn Signals and Dash Control Problems

  #1  
Old 06-09-2012, 11:26 PM
minifll
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Turn Signals and Dash Control Problems

My 2004 Mini non-S with 122,000 miles starting doing something funny last week. When I try to activate a left or right turn signal, there is no flashing of the green indicator light or clicking in the car. And then, I noticed there were other parts of my dash controls that aren't working right. The problem is intermittent, but is getting worse. I'm hoping someone can diagnose it.

Now let me give you the whole story! With all the details.

As a background, my battery started draining overnight about 6 months ago. I set up a light test between the negative battery post and the attachment and starting testing fuses. I eventually found at it was F22, which controls the in-dash GPS unit in my Mini. With F22 out, there is no battery drain, except for the tiny trickle for the regular stuff. So I decided to just leave F22 out and not use my GPS. And it's been that way for 6 months now.

So about the new problem (though in the back of my mind, I wonder about that fuse F22 being out). First about the turn signal indicator in the car: when it is not blinking inside my car, in fact, the lights ARE blinking on the outside of my car, both front and back. I started testing items on my steering wheel and on the center dash to see what stops working when the turn signals don't work - I should say, whenever what "IT" is stops working, since all this stuff goes out or comes back into operation at the same time.

When it's NOT working, all of the following don't work:

* turn signals
* behind steering wheel radio controls
* radio volume ****
* radio buttons to change stations
* the recirculate air button
(but note - all the other air conditioning buttons do work,
including A/C on-off, blower speed, temp control, etc.)
* power lock/unlock using key fob

When it's NOT working (the above), all of these still do work:

* flash bright lights
* horn
* cruise control buttons (on the steering wheel)
* windows
* clock is on
* wipers work

So not everything on the steering wheel and column, and not everything on the main center dash, stop working. Just some things.

Sometimes I'll have the turn signal on, complete the turn, and then whatever "IT" is goes out. In this case, the indicator inside the car keeps blinking and making the blinking sound! It is just stuck "on" no matter if I change the turn signal lever left or right. While it's blinking inside the car, and the lever is in the off (neutral) position, the outside lights are not blinking. So there is a total disconnect between the inside and outside turn signal operation, from what I can tell.

I tried to find ways to wake "IT" up when it's off. Light, honking the horn, turning the wheel left or right (faulty wiring in the steering column?), turn on the wipers, etc. But it just goes on and off on it's own. And more frequently lately.

Tonight, for the first time, I parked and turned off my Mini and took the key out. The overhead light stayed on 15 seconds then dimmed to off, which is normal. But guess what? All the orange color highlight lights on all the instruments and the center dash were still on! "IT" was stuck in the on position. So I put the key in, tried my turn signal - didn't work. Tried again... again... and finally, the turn signal worked. Then I immediately turned the key to off, removed it, and all the dash lights went off like they are supposed to. So my dash orange lights are also part of "IT".

I live in FL, and it's suddenly got more hot. We're in the 90's now. I have a slight suspicion that it's worse when it's hotter, but I don't think that's it. I think it was coincidence at first, because tonight in the 70's it was as bad as ever.

I replaced fuse F8 since it seemed that might be for the dash controls, but that made no difference.

So that's the whole story. Has anyone seen this problem before? My guesses are:

* somehow not having F22 in caused a problem
* there is some controller board that is shorting out
* one or more fuses have gone bad, but I can't identify any
fuse that corresponds to "steering wheel and related" controls
in consulting the fuse box or online

Any ideas? Thanks!
 
  #2  
Old 06-10-2012, 01:33 AM
rkw
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1. Do any of the symptoms change if you put F22 back?
2. Have you verified that your battery is still good?
 
  #3  
Old 06-11-2012, 07:05 AM
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I put F22 back in, and the GPS worked as expected. But all initial symptoms remain the same. And, the air conditioning controls all went kaput! So I pulled out F22 again, and when I restarted my car, the AC worked once again. I tried it one more time, putting F22 back in, and this time the air-conditioning worked initially. I turned off the ca,r waited a few seconds, restarted it, and then the AC was out again. Through all of these tests, the initial turn signal, radio controls, etc. problem remained. I pulled out F22 so that my battery would not drain, and then restarted my car. Only now, the service engine light is on! Yikes.

I did some more reading here on the forum. Could this problem be with the body control unit? The BC1? What I read here was that even a drip of water can make the BC1 go haywire. I live in Florida, and we get plenty of rain, that's for sure.

http://forum.minicooper.org/showthread.php?t=9924
 
  #4  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:30 AM
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rkw asks the most important question. What is the condition of the battery? You should take the car to your local auto parts store and have them test the condition of the battery. These cars do not like a battery that is not in good health and will act up in a variety of electrical ways if the battery is weak, even if the car will start and run "normally". Start there first.

The battery control module can cause issues when there is moisture present and with high heat and humidity in Florida this could be the cause of the problem. Usually though there would be some outside, atypical source of moisture that would cause the problem. For me it was when I washed my engine, and the problem went away about three weeks after it started when the BC1 finally dried out.

But it is better to start with the simple and proceed to the more complex and remote possibilities afterwards.
 
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:41 AM
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Thanks for the response. The battery was brand new as of January 2012 - the old one got 5 years out of it. I had the problem with the battery draining overnight about 2 months later, then I found out it was fuse F22. The battery drained twice in the process, but I went back to the store and it is holding a full charge. I'll go test it again with my voltmeter now. This morning, I took off both the negative and positive leads to the battery, and I've waited 2 hours. Fuse F22 is out. I'm going to re-attach the leads in a bit and see if the system "resets" somehow. However, I'm pretty sure if I test, there will be a draw on the battery if I were to put F22 back in, since I went back and forth testing that before. Anyhow, yes, the battery is 5 months old and to my knowledge is fully charged.
 
  #6  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:48 AM
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What type of driving do you do? My Uncle had a 2003 MCS that was driven so sporadically and at such short distances that the battery never really had a chance to recharge to full and would gradually wear down over a couple month or so period. A stint on the battery charger would do the trick for awhile longer.
 
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:59 PM
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I checked the battery today: 12.72 volts and 732 CCA (the battery is rated for 600 CCA). So the battery checks out fine. Meanwhile, symptoms are worsening. Now the A/C controls are all on and work, but no cold air (says the guy in 105 heat index in Florida!). Same wonkiness with the turn signals, etc. Going to a local BMW/Mini shop tomorrow to get the check engine light diagnostic (at the very least) figured out. @ACE I use my Mini 4-5 days a week, at least, about 5,000 miles a year. It's not disuse. Just 122,000 mile acting up, I reckon!
 
  #8  
Old 06-13-2012, 10:01 AM
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Thanks for posting . . . I'm going through similar issues with my 2004 MCS. I've got the crazy on-again off-again issues with A/C, turn signals, door locks.

I had the car detailed a couple of weeks back and they shampooed the interior . . . which MAY have been the cause of too much humidity on the car's interior? They had a squirrel-cage fan on in front the interior AND the car's heater running to speed the drying process.

My issues with the electronics didn't start until a week later though. I'm thinking I'll hit the Body Control Unit area with a hair dryer and/or the my shop vac to pull out any moisture that may be lurking behind the kickpanel trim on the interior (near the bonnet relaease).
 
  #9  
Old 06-13-2012, 04:11 PM
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@BJDavis - Timely reply! I took my '04 Mini to a local BMW/Mini repair shop, and what they found was pooled water in my spare tire kit in the back. There was rust on lots of the parts, and other things looked anodized. The guy suspects that the drain ports on my moonroof are clogged up, and what with the super heavy rains we had in south Florida in Feb and Mar and into Apr, water ran down inside the panels and into the frame area under the front seat, as well as of course, into the spare tire well. Or, just into the spare tire well, but in great quantity, such that whenever I was breaking, water would go forward "under" the car and get the underside of my interior wet. This all leading up to: the main harness in the dash runs to the passenger side of the car, where the BC1 is in the right front interior kick panel, and there are all sort of grounds and (maybe he said) control modules under the passenger seat. He suspects I've got moisture all under my car, and possibly in the side areas, and even maybe there will be moisture in the roof liner. He says that by pulling out the front passenger seat and then right side paneling one piece at a time, he should see evidence of water movement, and of course, actually see or feel water in the components under my front passenger seat.

Problem is, this is looking like BIG BUCKS to fix. I'm inclined to clean out all the drain ports that I can on my Mini, get rid of the excess water that I can, and to try to dry what I can without having to go for the big time big money repair. The added hope being that things will dry out on their own. Yes, it's humid here in Florida, but right now, it's plenty hot that water should evaporate, I think. So I'm inclined to fix the water intrusion problem and see if the problems clear up. To the credit of my thinking, today I drove for 5 minutes and everything worked fine! I was really shocked. Then, slowly, the problems started. So maybe it's drying out already?

So about your interior shampoo wash, I'd say based on my mechanic's comments to focus on the floor area around the passenger seat and of course the BC1 in the right front kick panel. Good luck getting it dried out and fixed, and let me know if you learn of anything.

By the way Mini experts... could I pull out the passenger seat pretty easily on my own and gain access to the parts under it? I don't mind cutting into the carpet with an exacto knife if I have to and repairing it later. My Mini has 122,000 miles and I'm not picky about it being perfect! I just want the electrical system to work perfectly! Could I dry out what could be related electrical areas or parts on my own and see if that gets it fixed for myself?
 
  #10  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:28 PM
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minifll - I ended up putting my shop vac hose on the "blower" outlet and stuffed the hose into the top of the passenger kick-panel (did not remove) and let it run for about 30 minutes. Things did not immediately change so the next day I made an appointment to take the car to the MINI dealer in Naperville, IL.

I called my aftermarket warranty company to be SURE that they covered the Body Control module . . .and they confirmed they did. Looked like I was on target to get things fixed on Tuesday.

Wouldn't you know it! On Monday, the day before I was scheduled to drop the car off, it started working perfectly!! The car sat in the garage over the weekend - after the shop vac treatment - and decided to fix itself?!

So far so good! My key-in-lock chime is working, as are my turn signals, A/C, and remote locking, etc.
 
  #11  
Old 07-02-2012, 01:07 PM
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minifill - Follow up! The problems above returned so I ended up taking my 2004 MCS into the MINI dealer in Naperville. I got a call last Saturday that the problem was indeed in the area of my Body Control Module . . . but NOT for the "moisture" reasons that I suspected.

Turns out that a mouse had temporarily "nested" in that area and cause my issues with the module.

Of course I'm WELL out of factory warranty but have a good aftermarket warranty and they WOULD have covered the electrical issue had it been water or some other mechanical issue. Because it was "rodent" related . . .they were off the hook.

My SA suggested that I contact my homeowner's insurance company as some had been successful with getting them to cover this sort of damage. After doing some research on Sunday, it appeared the MOST owners with this sort of damage managed to get help through their "Comprehensive" automobile insurance coverage.

I call my agent this morning and they, in turn, called the adjuster. YEAAAAAA! Turns out that they WILL cover that sort of damage. I haven't talked to the adjusted YET but that's VERY PROMISING.

I was reading some past posts regarding mice eating automotive wiring and it can get VERY expensive.
 
  #12  
Old 07-10-2012, 07:48 AM
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Follow-up AGAIN

AFTER my last "Conclusion" Follow-up post . . . the technician found the REAL problem with my quirky electrical issues. It seems that there had been some nesting stuff in the kick-panel where the Body Control Module resides, but THAT was not my issue.

MY final issue (everything is now working beautifully) was actually some connnections with an aftermarket radio installation. Just going from the technician's write-up, it seems there was a short somewhere in the new wiring harness (used to wire up the replacement radio to steering wheel controls) or the original* iPod module? As a diagnostic tool, when the technician unplugged the radio from the car . . . everything started working again. From there, he just needed to trace the problem and correct it.

Bottom line - All's repaired and it was NOT in the BCM (yeaaaaa). Also, it was interesting to find out that my Auto Insurance's "Comprehensive" coverage would have paid to repair the problem if it had been a "rodent" issue. Thankfully, my aftermarket warranty picked up the bill for this repair AND a couple of costly gasket leaks that were caught while it was being inspected.
*Background: My local installer had left the factory iPod module in-place when they put the new radio in, just in case we ever wanted to re-install the factory radio.
 
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BJDavis View Post
Bottom line - All's repaired and it was NOT in the BCM (yeaaaaa). Also, it was interesting to find out that my Auto Insurance's "Comprehensive" coverage would have paid to repair the problem if it had been a "rodent" issue. Thankfully, my aftermarket warranty picked up the bill for this repair AND a couple of costly gasket leaks that were caught while it was being inspected.
Glad you got your 2004 MC problem solved, though it was so far away from the original diagnosis.

I'm reactivating this thread in the hopes of finding some help. I took my MC into a shop, and the problem according to the mechanic is water in the boot, which he surmises comes from 1 or more of the 4 drain ports on the sunroof being clogged. Moreover, he showed me under the rear carpet section, where the tool kit is, the water: it was pooled in the kit, whose parts have started rusting. He suspects water is rushing forward in the chassis and getting under the passenger seat, where many of the control modules are located. This all follows rainy season in Florida, so it made sense - plus he had seen this happen to another MC.

The temporary solution was to tape up the entire sunroof and moonroof. After doing so, and the rainy season passed - all was well again! Not 100%, but darn near. Then I traveled for 2 weeks, came back, and from the first turn of my key, everything worked great!

5 days later - it's worse than ever. My radio won't play, the control lights are out, and worse of all - the A/C doesn't work! The symptoms were, the A/C would come on after 2-5 minutes of run time, at which time (all of this is apparently connected or controlled by the same control module), the radio sound would come on, and my turn signal indicators inside the car would work (they always work outside, just no blink-blink sound inside), and lastly, the steering wheel radio controls work. Like I said, that was until now, and for 3 days, all of the above is DEAD!

Well, I looked in the boot - I dumped a quart of water out of the tool kit. And there was a puddle of water in the compartment underneath it. I toweled it up. Later, I parked on a down slope and found more water, which I removed.

So I was told - pull out the passenger seat, then look at the control modules to see what's up. I know I need a size T40 Torx to remove the 4 bolts, and that I should disconnect the battery first, then disconnect the sensors to the seat, the remove the seat.

I looked tonight, and my GPS computer is under the passenger seat. There is a plastic door (1" x 12" long) that swings open. Looks dry. Anyhow, I just want to confirm - should I pull the passenger seat out, take off that plate, and look for water damage to control modules there?

Given the symptoms, and the visible water in the boot running into the cracks in the tool kit compartment, does the mechanic's assessment to inspect under the passenger seat make sense?

He said if he did it, he'd pull the side panels off, remove the headliner, pull the seats, and that would be just to trace the water. $500. Then the repair would be upwards of $1,500, possibly hitting $3,000. I'm all for seeing if I can dry this out on my own, and make sure those 4 ports on the sunroof/moonroof are open by doing a pour water test and then gently snaking as needed.

Any advice?
 
  #14  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:09 AM
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Same issues here but in 05 S Convertible-Please help!

I am having the same issure with my 05 S convertible, seems to have started after engine compartment/car wash/wax? Control Module and area where dry when I checked and never any moisture present and battery in Boot Dry as well (and new). Along with the turn signal indicators and radio/Steering wheel controls, the brake lights stay on after you turn off the car and remove the key?
Going to have codes checked tonight but let me know what you hear!!!
What electrical items under the hood could have moisture to cause problems??
 
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:28 AM
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Hello, well I have FOUND My PROBLEM that may help you as well. I went through the fuses, all ok, dried out engine in the sun, all ok. I found out it was the aftermarket CD Changer and cable in the trunk causing the short. I would suggest check all your connnections, grounds etc. Spray with some contact cleaner the aftermarket connections you have added
 
  #16  
Old 08-07-2012, 09:13 AM
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Ah HAH! Once again . . . it's that aftermarket connection cable! In my case, after the new radio was connected, everything worked fine for 6 months.
 
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:03 AM
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Wow! Note to self... never install aftermarket radio stuff. Got it.
 
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:14 AM
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Hey guys, I have the EXACT same issues as yall do :/ and my battery is less that a year old too. Does anyone know where the aftermarket connection cable is located ?
 
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:11 PM
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I removed the oem iPod adapter cable and now my car works fine. So much for it being the BCU. Good bye iPod :(
 
  #20  
Old 10-20-2013, 01:41 PM
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I am having this same symptoms. I just tried unplugging the 15amp fuse for the radio with out removing the after-market ipod adapter. Now everything is starting to work again.

Sunroof,dash-lights etc..

It seems like the BC1 was in emergency mode.

http://www.bmw-planet.com/lib/mini/BODY%20CONTROL.pdf

Emergency Light Operating Mode
An emergency backup hardware circuit completely independent of the BC1 will ensure certain lights can
function in the event of a failure within the BC1.
During normal operation a cycling frequency from the BC1 deactivates this emergency circuit. This cycling
frequency should be at least 15 Hz. Emergency operation is initiated if this does not take place.
The emergency mode provides the following lights from ignition position 1 regardless of the light switch
position:
 Front sidelights
 Rear sidelights
 Low beam lamps
 Left and right brake lamps (when the brake switch is active)
The following functions will not operate in Emergency Mode:
 Direction indicator lamps
 Hazard warning lamps
 Main beam lamps
 Front fog lamps
 Communication via the K-bus
 Instrument/switch illumination
 
  #21  
Old 10-23-2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by minifll View Post
My 2004 Mini non-S with 122,000 miles starting doing something funny last week. When I try to activate a left or right turn signal, there is no flashing of the green indicator light or clicking in the car. And then, I noticed there were other parts of my dash controls that aren't working right. The problem is intermittent, but is getting worse. I'm hoping someone can diagnose it.

Now let me give you the whole story! With all the details.

As a background, my battery started draining overnight about 6 months ago. I set up a light test between the negative battery post and the attachment and starting testing fuses. I eventually found at it was F22, which controls the in-dash GPS unit in my Mini. With F22 out, there is no battery drain, except for the tiny trickle for the regular stuff. So I decided to just leave F22 out and not use my GPS. And it's been that way for 6 months now.

So about the new problem (though in the back of my mind, I wonder about that fuse F22 being out). First about the turn signal indicator in the car: when it is not blinking inside my car, in fact, the lights ARE blinking on the outside of my car, both front and back. I started testing items on my steering wheel and on the center dash to see what stops working when the turn signals don't work - I should say, whenever what "IT" is stops working, since all this stuff goes out or comes back into operation at the same time.

When it's NOT working, all of the following don't work:

* turn signals
* behind steering wheel radio controls
* radio volume ****
* radio buttons to change stations
* the recirculate air button
(but note - all the other air conditioning buttons do work,
including A/C on-off, blower speed, temp control, etc.)
* power lock/unlock using key fob

When it's NOT working (the above), all of these still do work:

* flash bright lights
* horn
* cruise control buttons (on the steering wheel)
* windows
* clock is on
* wipers work

So not everything on the steering wheel and column, and not everything on the main center dash, stop working. Just some things.

Sometimes I'll have the turn signal on, complete the turn, and then whatever "IT" is goes out. In this case, the indicator inside the car keeps blinking and making the blinking sound! It is just stuck "on" no matter if I change the turn signal lever left or right. While it's blinking inside the car, and the lever is in the off (neutral) position, the outside lights are not blinking. So there is a total disconnect between the inside and outside turn signal operation, from what I can tell.

I tried to find ways to wake "IT" up when it's off. Light, honking the horn, turning the wheel left or right (faulty wiring in the steering column?), turn on the wipers, etc. But it just goes on and off on it's own. And more frequently lately.

Tonight, for the first time, I parked and turned off my Mini and took the key out. The overhead light stayed on 15 seconds then dimmed to off, which is normal. But guess what? All the orange color highlight lights on all the instruments and the center dash were still on! "IT" was stuck in the on position. So I put the key in, tried my turn signal - didn't work. Tried again... again... and finally, the turn signal worked. Then I immediately turned the key to off, removed it, and all the dash lights went off like they are supposed to. So my dash orange lights are also part of "IT".

I live in FL, and it's suddenly got more hot. We're in the 90's now. I have a slight suspicion that it's worse when it's hotter, but I don't think that's it. I think it was coincidence at first, because tonight in the 70's it was as bad as ever.

I replaced fuse F8 since it seemed that might be for the dash controls, but that made no difference.

So that's the whole story. Has anyone seen this problem before? My guesses are:

* somehow not having F22 in caused a problem
* there is some controller board that is shorting out
* one or more fuses have gone bad, but I can't identify any
fuse that corresponds to "steering wheel and related" controls
in consulting the fuse box or online

Any ideas? Thanks!
Had same problem to fix I cut white wire coming form s-video like connector to iPod or cd changer on back of radio
 
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:05 PM
spidertnt
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Originally Posted by Downeyinc View Post
Had same problem to fix I cut white wire coming form s-video like connector to iPod or cd changer on back of radio
Could you elaborate .

OEM adapter or aftermarket
Do you know what the white wire you cut is for ?
Was said wire shorted to ground ? etc.
 
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:02 PM
Downeyinc
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Originally Posted by spidertnt View Post
Could you elaborate .

OEM adapter or aftermarket
Do you know what the white wire you cut is for ?
Was said wire shorted to ground ? etc.
I cut white wire that is for CAN K-bus tells car a iPod connector is there something was shorted in the connector it's self. But it being shorted stopped communication for everything. It's like a network the ecu constantly checks to see what the car has in it so when wire shorted the ecu no longer know what's in the car
 
  #24  
Old 01-01-2014, 08:34 AM
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R53 blue green instrument indicators ... instrument lights stay on

I had a similar problem. My battery is older but no starting problems and charge seems ok. I removed and re-seated radio and instrument related fuses. Started with the radio fuse which did not resolve the issue. But removing and reseating F4 did. I am not sure if the fix is permanent or if the problem will re-occur. No moisture problem likely.


I did have a 5A blown fuse (F30 on far right) - but replacing this fuse did not change/fix the instrument indicator/light problem.
 
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:49 PM
Downeyinc
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Originally Posted by salzundpfeffer View Post
I had a similar problem. My battery is older but no starting problems and charge seems ok. I removed and re-seated radio and instrument related fuses. Started with the radio fuse which did not resolve the issue. But removing and reseating F4 did. I am not sure if the fix is permanent or if the problem will re-occur. No moisture problem likely. I did have a 5A blown fuse (F30 on far right) - but replacing this fuse did not change/fix the instrument indicator/light problem.
Thought the same thing. problem would go away for short while after disconnecting power. But problem got progressively worse. Do you have OEM iPod adapter, sat radio or CD changer in trunk. Disconnect next time you have problem. If problem does not go away check connector on car harness side to see if it shorted with other pins in connector. My harness connector shorted think it was because I was plugging in iPhone instead of iPod. The iPhone draws more amperage then an iPod which may have caused the damage to the connector
 

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