Hi ..

I own a 2nd gen R56, and I'd to know where I can tap KBus signal + its ground), without much dissassembly.

Any tips, even pictures welcome.

Thx
Olivier

 

This car does not use a "KBus" there is the "CAN" Bus and the "MOST" Bus. What are you trying to accomplish?

 

Sorry ... It's not KBUS, but IBUS...

This bus is used for radio, navigation, information display exchange.

I'd like to tap this wire so I can read data from steering wheel buttons with some uControler.

And maybe write datas to message display .....

My only problem is not to make mess of my car

Thx

 

Yep, sounds like you're looking for the CAN bus- the K and IBUS have been deprecated in favor of the CAN and MOST buses in the 2nd Gen cars.

You'd be exploring new ground

There's somebody else looking into it here, with a link to someone else's project with a Mercedes. Might give you some ideas on where to start?

 

It's got lots of iBus experts..... One thing we did find when looking at the diagnostic CAN bus is that it's the same commands as the older serial interface, just on a CAN physical bus. Maybe you're gonna get lucky here and it will be the same, just needing a different physical interface. But the "Hack the iBus" group is where to go for this stuff.

Matt

 

My understanding is that there are two bus connections in the R56 - CANBUS and MOSTbus. The CANBUS replaces the k-bus, which is all the sensors and such. Its unclear whether the CANBUS connection on the ODBII connector is gatewayed, or if its a direct connection with full fidelity.

The MOSTbus is the one which carries all the nifty radio related stuff since its for media. There is an optical connection in the rear boot compartment on the right side. I haven't seen anything for interfacing it right now.

 

OK.... A friend gave me more informations.

* M.O.S.T Bus seems to be used with Radio, and Navigation Systems, nothing related with base equipements, only multimedia stuff.

* Steering Wheel Buttons are connected to Steering Column Switch Cluster with KBUS :-) ...

Have a look here for more details:

http://www.aixmarseille.com/wiki/dok...6_bus_topology

 

Thanks for posting it!

Matt

 

dude, i so want to hack the MFSW buttons to control my carputer.

 

Based on the diagrams it looks like the MOSTbus is not the ideal place to pick up the MFSW signal. The signal seems to be transmitted over the K-CAN bus, then the CCC/M-ASK and/or Radio head is going to pick up the signal and do the right thing. Also, the MOSTbus is a fiber optic ring network, which means that interfacing it is probably non-trivial.

The K bus runs from the steering column switching centre to the right-hand MFL button pad. The left-hand MFL button pad is connected via the right-hand MFL button pad.

The D-CAN that connects to the ODB-II connector is going through the junction box, so I would imagine that it is gatewayed and therefore not very interesting for this purpose.

In terms of the K-CAN bus, it looks like there are taps at a number of points. The WDS mentions that "All equipment variations of the instrument cluster are connected across a K bus with the additional instrument.
The additional instrument is the gateway to the K-CAN." As such, that seems like the best bet for connection...at least initially. That or the main instrument cluster.

 

I've got them. PM me for details.

Matt

 

Based on the wiring diagrams I have seen, the steering wheel button data is on the k-bus. I know you can tap it behind the stereo head unit, then its just a matter of logging everything and waiting till you identify the correct signals.

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/hard...che-volvo.html

Since you have already replaced the head unit, you should have easy access to the k-can signal. In theory you should be able to pull the signal from the JBE in the right passenger well, but I haven't looked at that. You also might be able to pull the k-can off the d-can, but it just depends on whether or not the info on the d-can has been filtered.

 

thanks for the info. my carputer just feeds into the aux input of the oem headunit, it's not so high-tech. pulling for signals seems out of my league. i've got a lot of reading to do.

 

Dr Obnxs, were you able to interface with k-can on mini?
Any luck anybody?

I have been searching Internet on this topic, but haven't found any successful projects for R56.

Oscilloscope suggests me that k-can can be easily found on tachometer, so that's as easy as to unscrew 5 bolts to get there. green / orange green wires have a signal that looks like 100 kBit CAN, which is likely K-CAN (see http://www.aixmarseille.com/wiki/dok...6_architecture)

If you want, I can post some oscilloscope pictures here.

I have tried to interface with kcan using can232, but without any luck so far.

Looks like CAN protocol on MINIs is slightly unusual - 7.2V differential between wires, while a more common case will be 3.2V.

May be I'm just using wrong CAN bus interface?

 

from several places in the cars:

DSC-ECU link on 1st gen Minis.
IKE-Tach link of 1st gen Minis.
OBD-CAN on 2nd gen Minis.

We'd use a scope to sniff the line to get an idea of baud rate, then hook up our own CAN/USB interface and log away. The CAN busses are fast enough that a CAN/RS232 sometimes can't keep up without filtering the data stream. We haven't tried the K-CAN yes, but my buddy will be out next week (I think) and maybe we'll have a try there. There's a lot of stuff that we might like to do with those signals.

Matt

 

Let us know how will it go with K-CAN.

You're right about OBD-CAN. It runs on 500k, so CAN232 might have hard times to keep up. I've used USB-based OBD diagnostic adapter for that.
It was very straight forward to connect to OBD-CAN and I've got readings like speed, RPMs, etc. However events from MFSW, lights, windows, etc are not passed through OBD.

 

Having diagnostics only on the OBD-CAN line is a plus and a minus. it's fast, yes, but it's delayed a bit (big bummer for real time control from it). Why I have no clue. Some other cars have TONS of stuff on the CAN bus, not just OBD-II, but this can have some interesting issues....

From my reading on the KCAN, tapping into it isn't that bad, but understanding what's there can be a real biitch!

Matt

 

Yesterday I've successfully connected CAN232 to the wires that go from tachometer.
GREEN - K_CAN_H
ORANGE/GREEN - K_CAN_L
YELLOW/RED - POWER
BROWN - GROUND

I've created a quick bash script to filter out irrelevant traffic on the bus.
I can see signals for the following buttons:
Steering wheel: Volume and next/prev track.
Windows
Blinkers
Computer button (the one on the blinker handle)

I can also send these commands and car responds.

I was not able to get codes for interior light switches. They might be on a different bus :-(

Haven't tried yet anything more complex such as speedometer / tachometer readings.

 

it is on the 1st gen Minis, from the IKE. Doesn't get all the traffic.

Matt

 

I was able to decode some signals from KCAN on my R56 Cooper S.
Awhile ago I've seen a question whether you can interface with MFSW controls. Now I know the answer :-) Yes, you can.

Here is a full list of what I've got so far. I've added some comments, but I hope most of my ids are self-explanatory.

Since I'm using Lawicel CAN232, data is in their format
t2008FF8FFDFFFFFFFFFF means {can-11 ; id 200 ; 8 bytes of data ; data is FF8FFDFFFFFFFFFF }

I'm sure I can easily spot tachometer and speedometer data. Would be cool to get more info like turbine pressure, coolant temp and oil pressure, but I don't know yet to to detect those.

#cruise control lamp on speedo
cruise-notify-on=t2008FF8FFDFFFFFFFFFF
cruise-notify-off=t2008FF8FFCFFFFFFFFFF
#dial button on steering wheel
dial=t1D62C1FC
#open/close switch inside
doors-close=t2A08222218012A430B03
doors-open=t2A08111118010C400B00
#When DTC is on
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF000029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF010029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF020029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF030029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF040029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF050029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF060029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF070029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF080029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF090029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF0A0029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF0B0029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF0C0029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF0D0029
dtc-notify-off-constantly-counts-from-00-to-0E=t19E800E09FFCFF0E0029
#When DTC is off
dtc-notify-on=t3388B80002F000FFFFFF
# fog lamp switch to neutral position
fog-front-release=t2242FDFF
# lamp on the dash get notified every ~2 seconds
fog-front-notify-on=t21A3A512FF
# fog lamp switch up/down
fog-front-push=t2242FEFF
fog-rear-release=t22C2FDFF
fog-rear-notify-on=t21A3C512FF
fog-rear-push=t22C2FEFF
# close / open doors like from remote (does not lock trunk)
remote-lock=t2A082222180120630503
remote-unlock=t2A081111180112400600
# defines number of LEDs that are on for the heated seat.
seat-heat-l-notify-0=t23230FFFFF
seat-heat-l-notify-1=t23231FFFFF
seat-heat-l-notify-2=t23232FFFFF
seat-heat-l-notify-3=t23233FFFFF
# heated seat switch push/release
seat-heat-l-release=t1E72FCFF
seat-heat-l-push=t1E72FDFF
seat-heat-r-notify-0=t22A30FFFFF
seat-heat-r-notify-1=t22A31FFFFF
seat-heat-r-notify-2=t22A32FFFFF
seat-heat-r-notify-3=t22A33FFFFF
# MFSW
track-prev=t1D62D0FC
track-next=t1D62E0FC
# voice button on on steering wheel
voice-command=t1D62C0FD
volume-down=t1D62C4FC
volume-up=t1D62C8FC
# window switches single event will make windows go all the way up / down
window-l-down=t1022C1FF
window-l-up=t1022C3FF
window-r-down=t1022C8FF
window-r-up=t1022E0FF
window-lr-down=t1022C9FF
window-lr-up=t1022DBFF
# one stop command for both windows
window-lr-stop=t1022C0FF

 

lexakalex, could you amplify a bit? I'm deeply interested in getting at the MFSW signals so I can attempt to recreate the iBus->Griffin AutoPilot mod with an R56 instead of the original R53. As I understand it, you're getting CANbus signals off of the Tach yoke (the 5-6 wire bundle that comes up the steering column into the tach, right?), are you just running a tap off that, or are do you have a board in the middle acting as a hub? Once I know how to get signals out of the system, I suspect it'll be pretty easy to modify the arduino sketch to drive the autopilot's buttons. Assuming the MFSW still transmits the L and R buttons when the stereo is set to Aux-in, I suppose.

 

Yes I connect to those tach wires. There is a 18-pin close to steering wheel column.

As I've mentioned earlier we're interested only in 4 wires in that plug
GREEN - K_CAN_H
ORANGE/GREEN - K_CAN_L
YELLOW/RED - POWER
BROWN - GROUND

I connect these wires directly to lawicel can232. This way I can power it and send/receive can signals. I've attached rs232<->bluetooth adapter to Lawicell. I've soldered a wire to pin-9 of rs232 side of can232 to power the bluetooth adapter.

It is definitely feasible to do K-CAN->Griffin AutoPilot project. You will need to
attach rs232 side of can232 to arduino. The rest is exactly the same as for IBus. Of course, you'll need slightly different program in arduino since you're using different adapter.

In my case I'm integrating with Android phone. The sweet part of it is that I can integrate with MFSW in software.

I'm not sure yet, but I'm starting to suspect that either can232 or my bluetooth adapter are unstable when I start engine. I might need to provide a more stable power supply.

 

Ah yeah, I found the documentation that shows the CAN connection on the back of the tach, you're right, it's more than the 5-6 I'm remembering. Is the CAN232 in parallel with the tach wiring? It seems like that should work for the CAN topology, if I understand it right.

(i.e. more like using a posi-tap on those 4 lines than cutting them and putting the CAN232 in series with them somehow..)

If I'm looking at the CAN232 schematics right on http://www.can232.com/products.htm it's:

green -> pin 7
orange/green -> pin 2
yellow/red -> pin 9
brown -> pin 3

And voila: serial data flowing out the far side? That's seems too easy, aside from the sadly high cost of the CAN232. Maybe I should hunt down the far side of that loom so I know if it's replaceable without disassembling the dashboard - getting up the nerves to strip the insulation off of something so vital seeming is going to take a bit.

 

Yes, can232 is in parallel. Since bus is already terminated you don't need to do anything, no cutting, put it in parallel to tacho.

It is very easy indeed.

I really don't know why does can232 cost a hundred bucks. CAN controllers are so cheap, you can get like a kilo of them for $100. atmega16 is super-cheap too. As well as rs232 controllers. My estimate is that cost of parts is below $20.

If you're good with controller programming you might be better of with something like http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...oducts_id=8279 this way you can have one device for $60 that will connect directly to Griffin.

 

Yeah, I've been looking around to see what my options are - there looks to be an Arduino board from Silicon Railway that has a built in CAN interface, but their sales link takes you to an old ebay listing that isn't available any more.

I'd prefer to stick with Arduino, as I understand the language (sort of), but that board would be great as a generic trigger board if someone wants to do the legwork and program it. Lord knows it has plenty of outputs, probably enough that you could just flag pin 1 as the output of MFSW left, pin 2 as MFSW right, etc etc etc, and run them all through transistors to switch whatever hardware you want.

I was considering making a jumper harness so the original wiring isn't altered, but I haven't poked around to see how common the connector is. It _looks_ like that wiring segment is part of the full dash harness (ugh), but I couldn't get further detail out of RealOEM last night.

Thanks for the information!