Disclaimer: I have spent hours on NAM and MINI2 to research this and I have found conflicting information, any help would be greatly appreciated.

ISSUE: When launching in 1st gear the car occasionally squeals/chirps, more often when the car is cold. As noted above I have done research on this a found this is not unusual in a 2003 Cooper S, however some suggest that this is the clutch throw-out bearing while others say flywheel.

I explained the issue to my local service manager and (as expected) he knew what I was talking about. He advised me that it cannot be corrected as it is a characteristic of segmented flywheels. Is this true? Some of the posts I've read on this suggest that this issue occurs more often in humid climates, is there any truth to this? If this goes unaddressed do I risk damaging the drivetrain?

I picked up this car on Friday afternoon (yes, 3 days ago), thus my concern. I traded-in my Cooper for this "Mini Next Certified" used Cooper S (and have not yet updated my sig) and needless to say I was a little alarmed when I first heard the sound. Under the "Mini Next" program I can return this car for a full refund within 5 days.

Comments?

 

that screeching noise is not uncommon, but I think if you were persistant enough you should be able to get them to fix it for you under warranty. If they really give you a hard time try calling 1800 ask mini, or whatever the phone number is.

 

throwout bearing are rubbish today, in any car, even the expensive ones arnt what they used to be, squeeling can become a problem in all of them. I hate to say it, but because it is a bearing in the clutch, they will probably say no warenty (even from new). But dont tell them i said this, and try anyway, i sure would.... Otherwise, great time for a lsd, stage 2 clutch and alloy flywheel you know you always wanted, haha. sorry, i couldnt resist...

Beecher

 

Thanks for the replies guys.

I have a feeling that if I go the distance on this I can get them to fix it for me, but is this noise really a problem?

I certainly don't like the sound of it, but according to the service manager this is "no big deal".

Is he telling me the truth or is he trying to get out of fixing a known problem under warranty?

 

2003 MCS, Sept '02 build. 102,000 miles. Original clutch. No noise.

For what it's worth.

Scott
90SM

 

I had the squeal and Prestige Mini heard it once, diagnosed it as the dual mass flywheel, and replaced it under warranty. That took care of the problem for me and it was almost 20,000 miles ago without a sound since.

There is no way to tell from looking a the flywheel that it is bad and frankly I don't think the squeal will lead to premiture failure but it was VERY annoying and clearly not supposed to be that way.

Stand you ground and get it replaced. They are making a ton on your car but they will have to pay for it themselves to make it right. I'd give it back if they don't cover it fully.

Rich

PS-While they're in there pay for a new clutch. There is no extra labor and the parts are under $300. We'll worth the money since it's apart already.

 

Also FWIW,

My spent SPEC clutch squeeled at engagement. Replacing the clutch made it quiet again.

 

i really dont think a flywheel can go bad, The bearing yes, and its not really a problem per say, its not exactly good, but you can live with it.

Veni, when you say clutch, do you mean pressure plate or disc? or both? Either way, you probably got a new throw out bearing yeah? (as far as im concernned, they have become a replace when seem item, sort of like gaskets, when you put a new on it, you can fluch the cr*p new grease out and put in some quality hightemp stuff, but its a hassle, and even i dont do it, but then again, im apt to pull the motor out to fix it, depending onwhat car we are talking about...

Beecher

 

mini2 also has some threads on the dual-mass flywheel going bad. It's two pieces, springs, not just a solid piece of metal. It's a trouble spot.

 

really, i guess im old school. Didnt know they made 2 pieve flywheels, except for alloy with friction plates, but thats not a dual mass. Does the dual mass have anything at all to do with the 2 piece construction? Back in the day, dual mass ment to areas with mass, usually the center, for obvious reasons, and a whole lot of meat around the outer ring. I would show you picture of what i mean, but it took me forever to find a flywheel like that for my car so i could have the second mass machined off, hahah, and i dont have any pics of it, and when i pull that motor this week, it wont do any good because it looks like a normal flat flywheel now anyway.. lol

Beecher

 

I think it's more an issue of the segmented flywheel than the throwout bearing, but I dont know for sure.

My MINI has been in for service for the last 6 days due to the tapping noise from the clutch/flywheel combo at stop in neutral. They are replacing my clutch and flywheel and T/O bearing under warranty (only 19k miles). I only mentioned it to the Service tech because I didnt want a little noise to get worse over time. They said it was not normal for the transmission to make any noises at a stop or while taking off. They said, that's why you have an exhaust! 8-) To make noises on an otherwise quiet car. That said, they are also replacing a noisy powersteering fan, and fixing a BAD rattle in the passenger door. This is a very mod friendly dealership!

 

Our dual mass flywheel on the MCS has an internal friction disc behind the heat shield/friction plate; the assembly acts like a sprung flywheel cushioning engagement; it is not segmented. Our clutch disc is un-sprung. The clutch release bearing is not very failure prone at least not at the local level.

My clutch/flywheel/gears (12/02 build date) rattled from day one at idle, with some slip changing gears at high rpm, high pedal effort, and engagement very close to the floor. It never pulsated or had any symptoms to suggest failure, but I was told by a tech a new flywheel would stop the rattle, and indeed it did. Although I’m disappointed about not being able to install the lightweight kit, the new OEM flywheel and pressure plate kit perform so well it’s not too much of a let down; no rattle, light pedal effort, and ultra smooth engagement. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...52#post1451152

If the dealership is not willing to replace both flywheel and clutch then look for another vehicle because it is possible to have a noise free shifting experience.

 

hmmm, sounds like a complicated set up? what was wrong with one piece flywheels and sprung discs? oh thats right, they have been used since cars were invented. We must reinvent the wheel at every corner dont we? hahah. Why must they do that? so they say they did, even if they know it is more likely to fail? ahaha, why am i so cynical all the time? no wonder people dont like me, hahaha

Beecher

 

I had to replace both the clutch disk/throw-out bearing and the aluminum insert for the flywheel. Both the clutch and the flywheel disk were down to the fasteners.

 

Me too.

You know the center springs on a typical (I'm thinking "old school" means Ford or Chevy) friction disk? On a Mini OEM clutch that is shifted to the flywheel to take up torque and smooth out the launch. It is made up of two pieces connected by an elastic material instead of springs. As the pieces rotate together they make the noise. The flywheel will not come apart without destroying it so there is no way to tell from the outside if it is bad. And natrually they can't be lubricated. In my "old school" thinking this is simply not a good design although I have no idea of why they did this so, as an engineer, I reserve flat out saying it's stupid. What I do know is that many of them do make a g-d awful noise on launch that many say is worse when cold but mine did it in mid-summer.

And what else I know is that of you get the squeal on launch it is NOT the throwout bearing. If that starts to fail that noice will come and go if you engage the clutch while standing still. This noise is only on launch. Hence, not the bearing.

Rich

 

A good description here http://www.murmini.com/articles/2007/04/01/dmf

 

Your Svc. Mgr. might NOT think it is a "BIG DEAL", but then, HE is NOT the one who just put out a pile of boodle for the car, and who has to drive it every day.

The old "THAT'S NORMAL" routine is a load of crap almost every time, and others who have already posted on this thread and testified that their dealers made it right prove that is the case in this instance too.

MAKE THEM FIX IT OR TAKE IT BACK.

 

And get it covered right away, I missed out on mine by 2 or 3 months because I did not know what the chewbacka sound was and some info I was hearing here ,if it was the clutch they will not cover it. By the time I suspected a possible flywheel warranty ,it was too late. As I said on another thread, if someone had a flywheel removed that was causing this problem, send it to me and I will cut it apart to locate and post photos of the squealy parts.

 

I agree with k-huevo - check out the murmini link he posted above. It contains some good background info on these Dual Mass Flywheels, though it is my understanding, as also stated here already, that the MINI DMF does NOT use springs but rather some other type of elastic material. In the discussion below murmini's article you can read postings regarding my experiences with the DMF. I'm preparing to have my THIRD one installed. :impatient

 

I just had the car in yesterday for a scheduled service and made metion of my "steel chair being dragged across the floor" sound the clutch makes upon disengagement. I mentioned it was most likely a throw out bearing/flywheel. Entire unit was replaced, no questions asked, under warranty in 1 business day, along with the rest of my service. Sounds brand new and feels nice too.

TJM