Thank you for asking. The numbers come from Dynapack testing. Why is taht important? I posted the following in another thread:
Before and after is only a valid method if the results are accurate. And because of accuracy issues with the majority of dynos used by NAMers it becomes quite an issue. As Rototest states: “If the equipment cannot be periodically calibrated it falls into the same "useless" category, as it cannot be proved that it is continuing to perform and provide measurement results that have an accepted level of tolerance. Repeatability is good but cannot be compared with absolute accuracy.”

It is important to note that all inertia style dynos such as DynoJet and DynoDynamics use indirect measurement that negatively affects the torque reading. (So does lighter aftermarket wheels/tires.) Concerning accuracy, the closest I have ever been able to pin any inertia style manufacturer is +/-5%; most will not guarantee that. And there is no way for an operator to know how the dyno is performing or a way to calibrate it.

Hydraulic dynos such as Rototest and Dynapack use direct measurement. This is important because they can be calibrated and certified. Rototest and Dynapack have an accuracy of +/-1%. This is why I have come to only use these dynos.

 

Too bad you couldn't have been there. There were several other Cooper owners there to bare witness including Jan 'HWSNBN' himself. It was a good day to dyno. All things considered, I was very impressed with the results. I knew my previous pulls were less than optimum condition so fortunately the gods were smiling yesterday. I'm from NorCal and I live in the middle of a Redwood Forest. That is HP country. Probably good for an additional 10+ hp over these numbers.

 

I never made a spreadsheet to determine the exact effect on the end WHP but from studying these things for as long as I have I reckon the difference with your wheels and tires to be in the neighborhood of 8-10%. It affects acceleration which in turn affects the indirect torque reading on an inertia style dyno. It is the very reason we race with 15s.

 

DMH:
Point taken. Dynos are all different. +/-1% to +/-5% is a good indicator of pos/neg results. Take everything with a grain of salt. That's why I went to AutoWare. To measure and verify. Please don't turn this into an internet pissing contest.
Draw your own conclusions and move on.

 

I'm just trying to catch up with what is going on out there -- the west coast and Arizona.

As someone as familiar as I am with tuning Minis my curiosity was peaked when I saw your post concerning your car with JCW software and 175-180 foot pounds of torque. After all, it has an electronic torque limiter. Now that I realize you were running with lighter wheels and tires, if I take off what I think is about 9% it gets me to where I know the limit of torque to be.
But I still don’t know how it revved to 7200 with JCW software.

 

I agree completely.

Longboard

 

That surprised me too. The techs explained that there is some variation in the dynos rpm measurement +/-5%... Sound familiar?
Btw, when my car is pulling 300 hp on their dyno I'll make sure and subtract 5%

 

Your killing me!

Longboard

 

Just remembered something that needs mentioning.
My Alta V2 IC performed amazingly on the dyno.
After each pull it never got too hot to the touch, top or flanges.
Everyone there including Jan aka: 'HWSNBN' aka: 'el Diablo' were shaking their heads in disbelief!

The real proof of this was that my best pull was the final run with eveything warmed up to speed. I'd heard all the smack about DFIC's, but I think we just proved everyone wrong about Alta's anyway. Don't take my word for it. Ask the man himself what he thinks.

 

I here it was amazingly cool.

Mine was hot as hell.

Longboard

 

I heard you could fry an egg on that poor god-for-saken M7

 

Amazing numbers for a stock valve head , nice job. Would you mind telling us approx what that head goes for . I would like to compare that in cost verses perf of the big valve head which pulled about 8 hp more as I recall.

 

Don,
I, and I'm sure many others, don't see you posts or questions as an "internet pissing contest".

Your years of involvement with the MINI and the candor and simplicity of your questions bear watching. I don't get the feeling you're asking questions to be argumentative. In fact. I think you're asking questions that many of us reading would like to think we have the background and knowledge to ask. Fact is. We don't.

Sorry to see people so invested in the road they've gone down that they want to shut off any voice of reason that might prove them wrong. The guys that really make progress in the development of the MINI engine will be the ones with their ears full open.

What's that quote? Numbers lie, numbers don't lie, **** in **** out? Sounds like accountants, programmers, and dynos all have something in common.

Keep the calm and well-reasoned posts comming. Folks are listening.
Regards

 

Thanks, I can only take credit for the over-all package. I've had lots of help along the way. www.stevesautoclinic.com gets most of the credit. Steve's been squeezing hp out these poor little motors for as long as anybody. The pricing on the two heads in question are competitive. I'll defer pricing and packaging to Steve along with a pm. YMMV

 

All repect to Don and any others with singed feathers.
There was no intent of malice in my comments about "pissing contests".
I was merely trying to steer the direction I feared the conversation was heading down.
We've all seen how these discussions can degrade when numbers are tossed out. I've been building high-performance machines for over 30 years and come from a long line of mechanical a aeronautical engineers. I sensed where this conversation was going and I respectfully attempted to offer my perspective. If anyone feels I stepped out of bounds, then I accept my yellow card and offer apologies to all parties affected.

The bottom line is that my blumini will get the milk home before it gets warm...
No dyno necessary

 

I called Steves Auto Clinic and asked about a price . He said that the cost for the head you have will be $1250. Now the question is what will that extra 8 hp cost by going with the big valve head ?

 

I beleive the cost is competitive.
What "8hp" are you refering to?

 

I think he's talking about the incremental cost of going to the HWSNBNHead and gaining 8hp over what you currently have. The cost I assume would be in the range of head plus installation less sales proceeds from sale of Steve's AutoClinic Head.

I think there's a different aspect that is he is missing and that is the potential that there is with the HWSNBN Head (i.e. - Cam, Header, Exhaust, ECU).

 

I was just wondering what the differance in cost would be between the head talked about here and the other head thread which got 238 from bigger valves etc. Just tring to see which gives the proverbial " bang for the buck ". I also understand the potential for even more performance for the big vlave head but many would not be able to justify a large differance in price.You must keep in mind that Blumini's car also was rather mild in the mod area and would get even more from header ect. As we have not seen a price for the big valve head as yet I beleive I am not the only one curious about these two programs. Longboard could you perhaps share with us the retail price for your head now that we know that Steve's is $1250 which does seem like a hell of a deal by the way.

 

Ok, you guys need to look a little closer at these charts before you post.
Unless there's a new 'new math', the difference between (blumini) 230.2 and Longboard 231.9 = 1.7 hp

 

 

Anyway, you are comparing apple sauce to grape jelly. Our cars have different set-ups (and were built on different days)
1.7 hp is within the laws of variance. Who's to say that if we tested again it wouldn't swing the other way.
Both LB and myself are far from finished. Both cars need to be dialed in and more upgrades are in the works.
Stay 'tuned' to find out.
First man to 300hp wins a speeding ticket and cancelled insurance.

Btw, who said my head has 'stock valves'???

 

You are correct , for some damn reason I had 238 on the brain. So now we have a differance of a couple of hp between a stock valved head and a big valve head. This should make for loads of discussion.

 

Who said Steve's Head has 'stock valves' ???

...there is nothing 'stock' about steve's head...

 

I am not saying that the head is stock. It has been beautifully ported and polished no doubt. My point is that your head has stock valves and is getting almost the same horsepower as longboards head with big valves. I think your car is doing very well and so far looks like the biggest bang for the buck in the wide world of head mods.