It is obvious to me that BMW will not in any way be associated with Daimler and that is why they are taking this route with the engine. I will upgrade if it is an upgrade. With the engine due in the 2006 models I will wait until 2007 just so the kinks have been somewhat worked out.

My feeling is that by that time, if the Mini continues to sell, we will see more than one model and sub-models. The cabrio, a four door, maybe a panel van, and certainly two or three models of the S. I can easily see them making a base S at the HP we have now, maybe an RS, and a GRS (top use the integra models). This would allow them to offer high HP models with higher margins and maybe the top of the line could have a BMW engine in it.

The Mini was a big gamble for BMW. They had to cover their butts in many ways to make sure they got some return on their investment. The tritec engine probably looked like a good bet for power vs. cost to them. We all love our Mini's and it is selling well, but their was no guarantee of this when they started. They're a strong company because they are smart, this car is a smart design for the money. No one here can say it isn't.

If you want a faster car, go get one. There are plenty on the market. It just kills me to here people say "Oh damn! I just got ripped by a -whatever-, this car needs more power" No one held a gun to your head to buy the Mini. Add some mods, tune it up, spend some money, quit bitching!

 

>>p.s. You don't really think they'd put a rally engine in a street car do you? Just because someone is winning rally races doesn't mean squat about their street cars.

Chris,

If this was directed toward me I think my comments are qualified. Just that obviously Peugot reliability has improved from what we remember from France's last entry into the US. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not an idiot. I also don't think NASCAR rigs have anything to do with the models upon which they're based.

With that said, I'm happy that some of the technology is trickling down to the street. Subie's 300hp with driver-controlled center differential is a good example.

Jeff

 

>>Not to bring the thread back to politics, but I want to understand what you are saying here.
>>
>>France was German occupied during the war, and the US and allied forces liberated occupied France. Are you referring to the Japaneese being the last os the Axis powers to surrender? I just want to make sure I have my history straight and don't run around an ignoramus.
>>
>>Thanks!


Thanks Randy! I was reading that guy's comments about the Japanese thinking - WHAT?
I assumed he was making a stupid joke or maybe I just didn't "get it". Hopefully he'll chime back in here and explain how the Japanese would have taken over France b/c they didn't say anything about that in my history book!

 

I know I'd be interested, regardless of politics involved...think about trickle down technology

 

OK, I think I understand it all now!!!

A British car, a French engine, owned by a what?, a German congomerate. WOW

220HP?????? Hmmm, let's see plus Magnaflow, Intake (your choice), header, ECU, pulley, PLUS PLUS PLUS Can you say 300HP

Come on guys I'll race you to Japan.

 

Here's some more info on this issue: The Next MINI To Have A Peugeot/Citreon Chassis?

"Insiders say that PSA (Peugeot/Citreon) could provide the platform for the next MINI. BMW was forced to completely re-engineer the current "shoebox" when it discovered, about 18 months before it's promised intro date, that the car is had entrusted to Rover to develop was a total disaster. The final result was possibly the best enthusiast's car for the money ever built-but because of the comprehensive emergency surgery required to revive it, the MINI is possibly the least profitable car BMW has built in recent history. Borrowing a chassis would be a tremendous savings in development costs and help insure that the next-generation MINI generates the returns for which the company is famous." (The Roundel)

 

What are you guys talking about? All of you are so quick to show your hate toward France. What do you guys know about France? "They are not siding with the US." Okay what else? How many of you know french? Know the culture? Know the European history? Where is France on a world map? How many of you would be able to point it out successfully? No, that's too many questions, let's not think so much, instead we will have liberty fries, because liberty is so abundant in this country is that it? France and libery don't go together is that it? Oh, Benjamin Franklin and other intellectuals of his time must've gotten their ideas about freedom just out of the air. The French couldn't/shouldn't/wouldn't know a thing about liberty, right? I mean they can't, they are france, just a country who don't side with the US. Forget (or simply don't learn) anything about their philosophers and way of life. ERRRR. This is the real land of the free is that what you think? Is that why the media networks could have been labeled as just war-channels, cheerleaders for the war? America is not always right and king of the world do some of you understand that?

ugh

 

>>What are you guys talking about? All of you are so quick to show your hate toward France. What do you guys know about France? "They are not siding with the US." Okay what else? How many of you know french? Know the culture? Know the European history? Where is France on a world map? How many of you would be able to point it out successfully? Ha! Take that!

 

>>Here's some more info on this issue: The Next MINI To Have A Peugeot/Citreon Chassis?
>>
>>"Insiders say that PSA (Peugeot/Citreon) could provide the platform for the next MINI. BMW was forced to completely re-engineer the current "shoebox" when it discovered, about 18 months before it's promised intro date, that the car is had entrusted to Rover to develop was a total disaster. The final result was possibly the best enthusiast's car for the money ever built-but because of the comprehensive emergency surgery required to revive it, the MINI is possibly the least profitable car BMW has built in recent history. Borrowing a chassis would be a tremendous savings in development costs and help insure that the next-generation MINI generates the returns for which the company is famous." (The Roundel)

Does this imply that the peugeot mini may have different exterior styling? Sorry but the use of the past tense for a car that is still seemingly under developemtn has me a little confused.

If it does mean a stylistic change then I think I'll stick with the mini I have on order. If I was a car with an aggregiously long snout I'll pony up for the Z4.

 

So I guess this post isn't the place to actually talk about the new MINI engines.

BTW I continue to be appalled by blind hatred toward all things French. How many here know any French people or have talked to some about these issues? How many here know about French culture and their historical friendships toward the United States. How many know France's historical importance in terms of the modern ideas of "Liberty" and how much we as a country derived took from them. Seriously people - please do a google search about these things before you start spouting hatred towards 60 million people.

 

>>>>Here's some more info on this issue: The Next MINI To Have A Peugeot/Citreon Chassis?
>>>>
>>>>"Insiders say that PSA (Peugeot/Citreon) could provide the platform for the next MINI. BMW was forced to completely re-engineer the current "shoebox" when it discovered, about 18 months before it's promised intro date, that the car is had entrusted to Rover to develop was a total disaster. The final result was possibly the best enthusiast's car for the money ever built-but because of the comprehensive emergency surgery required to revive it, the MINI is possibly the least profitable car BMW has built in recent history. Borrowing a chassis would be a tremendous savings in development costs and help insure that the next-generation MINI generates the returns for which the company is famous." (The Roundel)
>>
>>Does this imply that the peugeot mini may have different exterior styling? Sorry but the use of the past tense for a car that is still seemingly under developemtn has me a little confused.
>>
>>If it does mean a stylistic change then I think I'll stick with the mini I have on order. If I was a car with an aggregiously long snout I'll pony up for the Z4.

Take these rumors (as with all rumors) with a grain of salt. Nothing has been confirmed other than the engines.

 

They said the MINI was BMW's least profitable car?

 

Chiming in as expected. I guess we should take this thread to off-topic. french is the reason the United States are United. (Read up on Civil War).

My comment about the Japanese in France is explained rather simply: United States didn't have much to do with Capitulation of germany, However the US did end the WWII with their efforts in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. (Japanese were well on their way to take over the exhausted and bled world.)

Regardless, I enjoy Japanese, German and French products equally and see no reason to punish common people of any country for their leadership's mistakes.

Now for the kicks, let's see how many will get this one:

Maybe France is taking their 4 years to decide to help us?

 

This is getting a real Europa vibe to it.

Tom

 

I think I got the UN reference.

The Japaneese reference is what I thoguht it was, but Japan wasn't interested in Europe - even before the bombs from what I have read.

As far as the Civil War - the French made a much larger impact on the Revolutionary War.

The whole thing is a goofy argument, because as some have stated, politics usually don't involve the mass population.

OK, I fell better now that I didn't miss something. Thanks for clearing up your point.

Randy

 

My main argument was the Revolutionary war, but whatever...lets see some performance from Peugeot...

 

The media strikes again...

It's amazing how little people my age (17) care or how little they take sides compared to people older than us. I feel more ashamed to be associated with some people who I, at one time, believed were the more mature and well rounded persons than ever before. Some of the comments I heard people make on national television wanted to make me strangle each and every one of them for saying such biased, illmanered, and misinformed CRAP. It's unfortuante that the people most often heard by people in the US and around the world are those who are extreme in their opinions, because these are the people that we as a whole are compared to and represented by.

Thanks for reading my thoughts on why living here sucks. Fortunatly, this is just about the only thing I have to complain about. Things could be much worse.

Tom

_________________
Jet Black/Jet Black Cooper S

 

why doesnt BMW design its own engine!!! what is wrong w/ the current engine why do they need to change it? i would love to see a new stock model w/ 220 hp, that would be insane!! also, does anyone anything about the Dinan package that is gonna come out to compete w/ JCW?? by 2006 im sure we will know for sure about this engine... i just dont see BMW's reasoning behind it....

i say BMW comes out w/ a Cooper GT and puts an M3 engine in

 

MINI Cooper //M?

 

>>Oh, for the love of...
>>
>>There are ENOUGH threads on this site that have descended into this ridiculous French-bashing flag-waving BS!!! The guy is asking an interesting question about the upcoming Peugeot engine, something that there hasn't been much talk of on MCO. Take the politics elsewhere, for once, please! What the world needs now is LOVE SWEET LOVE. Not war....War Sucks !!!


_________________
My MINI is Sponsored by VIVIDRACING

 

All that France and Germany had about the war with Iraw was a difference of opinion. They voiced that opinion in the forum provided to them, the UN, and voted their beliefs. We have done this many times in the UN in the defense of Isreal or other nations that we believed were right when many in the world felt we were wrong.

Is'nt that what we fight for when we fight for freedom? The right to voice ones opinion without fear of reprisal. The right to disagree with the majority, or minority, and vote what is in your heart. Would we not fight to the death to maintain our right to live freely, speak freely, and act freely? That is all that France and Germany did. They exercised the very rights that we hold dear.

France and Germany ARE our allies and our friends. They had a difference of opinion with us. Do any of you France haters dissolve your friendships any time you have a difference of opinion. Grow up. If we are not willing to willing to hear the thoughts of other free thinking, democratic nations than we should look very hard at ourselves and the rights and freedoms that we claim to hold dear.

This is not the last time the nations of the world will disagree. The most powerful way to promote understanding is to shine a light into the corners of dissent and persent all views. Decide in open forum the a solution. It is not about winning, but understanding, dealing with the problem and moving the world forward. I happen to think that we were right in this case and I disagree with the positions of the French and Germans, but I would stand at the gates of Hell to defend their right to speak. It's what I call freedom.

 

OK, back on topic. As I understand it, from insiders in DCX, the MINI 1.6l engine is built in Brazil close to the Mercedes A class plant and the engine is also used in that car. In other words the "joint design" with BMW and DCX is used in the MINI and the A class. The Neon engine, as well as the LS engine, is built in Monclova, Coahila, Mexico. I was there when they built the plant.

As for the Peugeot engine, I've owned one and didn't find anything exceptional about it. Strange, yes. Exceptional, no. A maintenance pig, yes. Reliable, no.

As for our Mercedes engine, I curently own a 1989 300SE with over 271,000 miles and it runs better than the new Cadillac I had previous to it. I'll take the solid, reliable engine we have, thank you very much.

Robb

 

IGNORANT!!!!!!! IGNORANT!!!!!!! open your eyes....... please keep things mini related, otherwise there are a lot of chat rooms available for anything else.

 

>>>>
>>>>NoBull, you really have a knack for stopping threads dead in their tracks.
>>>
>>
>>Looks like I managed to **** off another one. Boy I seem to have the KNACK of doing that lately.

Flash, i think you got the jist of it all but the 'joint venture' motor IS used in Export Neons an PT's ...

.. and as far as 'joint-venturing' with anybody, i believe i saw something about BMW not having a 4 banger in their inventory right now ... or at least one that could be 'federalized' easily - so getting anybody to help them with the design-and-developement, and the cost, would look good to them!

 

This thread certainly has been wallowing on and off topic. I would love to give a few people a history lesson in a "off topic" forum.
Anyway, Peugot has made some great cars and if that is where teh engines come from, fine with me. Personally, I can't see getting all worked up for someting that won't come down the pike for 2 or 3 years. I don't think any of us here own a 2006 with a Peugot motor. While its great to be informed and to be able to express opinions, I thik we should step back and see what develops. Who knows? Maybe BMW will decide to develop their own power plant for the Mini. We can always hope! :smile: