Fruitbowl....

 

I resemble that remark...

 

It is not that we don't want to post numbers ... there are issues to be sorted out and we don't want to share what they are because we don't want to give others contemplating mfg a kit to learn from our R&D....

really , we have not offered the kit to the "public" and have accepted nobodys money except the "beta" cars.... so while we are all dissapointed somewhat that we don't have numbers yet.... there has been no real harm

 

this is the inevitable clash between exitement at newness with impatience for detail. Happens every time.....

Matt

 

Starting to sound like Vaporware

"Many companies announce vaporware in order to prove that their R&D departments are still full of new ideas. The more ambitious the project, the better."

 

I guess is just not many are up on the details of product developement. getting the idea is pretty easy. Making it work once is 10 times harder. Reduction to practice is 10 times harder still. Keeping all the customers happy after purchase is another order of magnatude in difficulty....

Anyway, developing a product like this takes time, as it's like peeling an onion.... There's always another layer.

And that's just the way it goes. You want it faster, do it yourself. You want to wait for the results of other peoples efforts, wait. Politely and quietly would be nice too!

Oh, I forgot, manners don't count on the internet!

Matt

 

Development does take time. Which the developer should know better than anyone else. Hence, the curiosity about the grand announcement 10 days ago about the numbers being available the following day. Post #21 on 1/21/07 at 2:59 p.m. And just to point out: it was totally unsolicited....

 

No mailce towards anyone, I'm just saying that this R&D project should have been kept under wraps until it was ready to come to market. Then at least is would be very easy to remain "poliet & quite".

 

C'mon Matt:

I politely suggest that it is a bit "rude" to constantly give updates on the development of a product with thread headings like "M62 Kit on it's Way to M7!" or "M62 Kit on the Mini is a Reality!" - post glowing driving observations on the web, sing the praises of the feel of the kit and then tell people who want specifics to be "patient".

If the developers of the kit want people to stop asking about numbers and other performance specifics, I humbly suggest they stop announcing every attempt they make to dyno the car.

With all the constant dyno talk with no numbers, people are beginning to think the kit has problems and was over-hyped. You can call these people impatient, rude, or any other descriptor but in the end, you may end up alienating your core customer base.

 

+1 SpiderX and M7 would not last in the Programmable Logic world. Stay in skunkworks mode until you are ready to announce, provided the data people will be asking for, list a price, and sell product.

I could say that I know the next product line my company will release, but why create a proverbial Sh#tstorm?


Bottom line: At this point ignore the 'when' part and just know that eventually the data will come.

 

 

you could get to watch the progress, stumbles and triumphs, in real time or go on in blissfull ignorance, not knowing anything about the developement and get a "new product announcement" and start asking and learning then. The first post of Bob's what on 7/17/06, so we've just past 6 months, and the kit is now on a couple cars and package details are being worked out. Not exactly greased lightning but pretty good progress.

Personally, I'm glad I've gotten to watch..... I think I'm better off with all the info that's been shared to date. But I do understand others impatience....

As far as missed dates, well, the best laid plans.... You know the rest..... So you want it faster, I still say do it yourself. You want to not know until it's finished, ignore the thread and wait until the vendor announcement comes out. You want to watch the evolution, have fun, but really, if you're not doing the work, what's there to be mad about? Afterall, the only investment you have made is some time reading the story of the evolution....

Matt

 

I have to ask: "WHAT INFO!!!???"

I refer you to post #103 from SpiderX and I quote: "there are issues to be sorted out and we don't want to share what they are because we don't want to give others contemplating mfg a kit to learn from our R&D...."

 

Can you recap the what they are learning? I've tried to follow the threads to see what the issues have been during development (as I also am interested in learning about the development hurdles with the kit) and am not seeing them..............fueling?...............heat?.... ..............what? If they have indeed shared the process, can you enlighten me as to what the main hurdles have been?

...

See above. I would love to know what new info has been gleaned from the process and shared here.........I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ - maybe I've just missed it.....

People are asking for the numbers because dates have been set, passed and nothing has been posted. People don't necessarily want it faster (at least I don't) people are starting to think the kit may have some serious issues with it.

I mean maybe I'm naive, but where's the harm in saying, we dyno'd the car today with X mods. We encountered issues related to fuel delivery that killed power in the upper RPM band. We got an increase of 25 whp on a Mustang dyno before the issue raised it's head. Going to experiment with a Walbro fuel pump, 440 injectors and a tune and redyno on the 12th.

That's a view into the progress of the kit. The main focus of the thread so far has been Bob's views into the process as a customer. While I think he has done a great job sharing his time and his experiences with us, some of us want to see what you alluded to Matt - real time accounts of the development of the product.

 

Matt

 

Try calling them if you have questions.

http://www.ddmworks.com/Miatastore/i...contact_us.htm

 

Sorry, it was not directed at you.

 

I'll take the heat on this as they were my announcements..... this is hardly vaporware... I am very familiar with the term... there are 4 operating cars.... two have had numbers posted..... all good intentions to get the numbers to you on my car... Dave at DDM is working on some options today.... this is mostly around safe A/F .... most of you don't know what a ***** the Mini ECU is... some do.....if you want numbers so far my car is 220 whp 190 tq..... we hope to do better... before the 62 I was right at 200 whp with 157 tq.... I don't believe this is the finished product but in an effort to keep you somewhat informed as to what is happening I try to give you something.....

The original post M62 a reality was true it was on and operating on the car with no issues.... the car was stock.... my car and the more modified cars have been a challenge..... as Matt said,... you get what you pay for...

 

Thank you for the info. Thats really all I have been looking to see ('started with X, now have X, not done yet though, problems with A/F right now'). Good luck.

 

Bob
Are you sure your car was only at 200 whp with the head, cam and everything else you had . Sounds low compared to others. The M62 did give you a large jump in tg. Hopefully with the new header and tuning you'll see a much higher # hp. Thanks for all your doing with this project.

 

So on a stock car the kit works fine with the problems steming from more modified cars being held back by the ability to tune the ECU? What is being used to tune the car and will a better, more upgrade friendly option be developed?
I've looked at the different tuning options for our car and am somewhat dissappointed in what's out there. Currently it looks like my desires would be best handled by a compound management solution, using an ECU reflash to get it close and then an SAFC to fine tune to my engines unique characteristics. I'm really hoping that by the time I get back to my car a better solution will be available.

I'm very interested in this kit as it sounds, in theory, like exactly the upgrade to make exactly the right amount of HP and TQ and in a fashion that suits my driving. I'm eager to see this kit become fully developed and will be knocking at your door to buy such a kit later this year (if it's ready by then). I know these things take time and seeing that it can take years for a large company to engineer an entire vehicle I don't expect a smaller company to be able to reengineer the motor overnight.

 

So the M62 actually gave you around 30 - 40 extra hp and 40+ extra lb-ft of torque...

What was the other number on the stock car?

 

yes the starting number has always been a disappointment.... I should have been around 215 or more..... I hate to point fingers but the only thing I have to look at is the WMS head..... MSfitoy has one with similar lackluster numbers.....

 

not nessicarly... the head... i would look at the header... and the tune... most cars at or under 200whp don't have a great tune.

 

that is where we are at ... installed a new header and working on the tune