I would say 200 whp is easily achieveable with no long term problems with the engine/trans. Agree or dissagree?

 

Tranny? Agree, because it's pretty heavy duty. Engine? Dunno, only time will tell. We're all treading new waters here.

 

You ask an excellent question.

I suspect Dave's answer is correct:
However,

• 207 HP JCW kit: Per Automobile Magazine, "Factory installed, the kit adds an extra $6,300 to the price of the S model, done at the dealership it adds $4,650 plus 10 hours of labor." All this for an additional 32 HP!

• There are other choices in the market such as the Mazdaspeed3 - 263 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque for a BASE PRICE $22,240 (as tested MSRP OF $26,300). See comparison report. So if maximum HP (at a cost-effective price) is most important, you may wish to consider it.

 

There was a previous post suggesting that, too... I belive the conclusion (supported by MINI's documentation on the R56) is that they are sleeved as stock.

This car is begging to be modded and there are companies at work cracking the ECU right now. Superchips has a R56 torn apart right this second. Can't help but think that other do too... but aren't saying so.

 

I rented one of these Mazdas while my MINI was in the shop, & I hafta admit the power was amazingly effortless! Not a lotta engine sound "drum roll" - just smooth, powerful & stealthy. Some might contest the semi-station-wagon look, but the same could be said of the MINI...BIT depressing considering all the $$$ I've sunk into go fast mods to less results. Ah well, we've got more character, right!?!

 

I was looking at the mazda and it is a huge freaking tank, it felt like a boat on wheels regardless of the "suspension" upgrades. I much rather have a better all around car then a go fast in a strait line car. And their boost is limited in 1st and second, goes to show they designed the car for people who cant control their right foot....

/rant off

So everyone seems to believe the ECU will be the trick with this car, as it is with most late model cars. Here is an example with an audi.

Audi A6 all road 2.7 bi-turbo V6

stock specs:

250 hp 258ft/lbs of torque

APT tuned allroad:

318 hp 382ft/lbs of torque

+68 hp and +124ft/lbs for 600 bucks modding only the ECU!

Now that is just incredible to think our cars have the same possibilities waiting to be tapped into.

 

^^^^^yeah it is a 2.7lt biturbo motor. R56 will have a 1.6lt 4 banger, so having 250whp with simple ECU mods is a dream. It will not happen, not in this life.

 

im talking about simular results for our sort of motor...i know its not a vr6 with two turbos slapped on it...

akak 180ish 190ish whp with a bolt on or two as well at the wheels im saying

 

is just up the boost via ECU. I haven't read alot on direct injection modification, but there are a lot less offerings to choose from because it's so new. I'd guess head and cam work too. Haven't met a motor that can't unleash power with the help of them.....

Matt

 

Displacement should limit the car that much. BBR squeezed 275bhp out of the 1.6L tritech (not that I would want to try it on my own personal car):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TKuNlBfxmQ

Turbo modification and upgrading opens a ton of doors. Once the ECU is cracked... the cats out of the bag and the race is on to see what the new block will handle. Turbo units, intercoolers, injectors, chips, exhausts, ported and polised heads... it's going to be exciting to see.

 

does anyone think we will be disappointed by the new engines abilities? Any have any sucessful or unsucessful stories of companies putting out an ECU with the intent of it being hard to tune?

 

I doubt we will be dissapointed at all, although its kinda opening a new can of worms, it will take time like everything else.

 

Exactly. The reviews of the engine in stock form are glowing. It's been the one thing the critics have been in unanamous agreement about. Load of torque. Smooth power delivery. The aftermarket will only improve upon that. As Dr Obnxs said, it will just take time.

 

I am so excited, I probably won't bother with a new exhaust system... electronic cut out here i come!

 

I think the Mazdaspeed3 peeps are getting +70HP from the XEDE piggyback.

Audi doesnt limit boost in early gears? I thought that was pretty common across manufacturers. I know we do it. Its not about necessarily about driving style, its about protecting the drivetrain

 

six...if I'm not mistaken your MR2 T is 2.0 - na is the 2.2. The 1.6 was used in the 1st gen. I miss my 93 T - very fun to drive!!! out of the total 4 I've owned - the SC was a blast too is it own, shall I say, go-cart like mind set

 

I have a 2001 VW New Beetle T and the most bang for your buck was installing an after market P ChipQ

 

Search for any Honda DOHC 1.6L turbo kit. Most stage 1's are 250hp at 8psi with minimal management, and reliability isn't an issue. I've been posting in another thread about the lackluster output of this engine, and I've been beat up about it...

Also in the latest SCC, they said a shop just showed (with dyno sheets) that the removal of the top of the airbox in the Mazdaspeed3 nets 20hp....insane!

 

Link to the motoringfile.com spec page about this engine for the techies out there:

http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/12/...ange_in_detail

 

You're beating yourself up about it. You said it yourself, torque is more important. 120 Lb-Ft per Liter is not lackluster for an economy production engine.

 

I have been speaking with a new R56 owner Ïn the know"and he told me that MINI is making it increasingly difficult (read not impossible) to mod the new turbo engine to obtain significant gains. It seems to me MINI is agressively going against the aftermarket to prevent or making it twice as hard to mod the car in the same fashion as the R53 was.

Just sayin'and I trust this person's opinion entirely. BTW, he is part of the aftermarket so he has a vested interest in developing mods for the R56.

 

C4: You're totally on the money. Most OEM's are making their vehicles electronically integrated, making a la carte adjustments [like increasing boost] very difficult. As OEM's become more advanced, so will the aftermarket to meet the demands of their customer base. If that fails on a widespread scale, then sales of used cars will increase to accomidate the hot-rodder and tuner, kind of like how many DIY turbo guys use 10 year old cars, they're easier to mod the powertrain because that ECU tech is well established.

This is why I would like to see ECU companies like AEM or Hydra start immediately pushing a standalone ECU to market for the R56, as that would open the proverbial doors for the aftermarket.

 

I can't help but find so many parallels between the R56 performance potential talk and what was going on in '02 regarding the R53 mill. We all know how that turned out.

I see a lot of parallels between this new motor and the common rail diesel engines in domestic pickups. The big difference is in the knowledge of the ECU code. Right now, you can purchase a new truck, not even leave the lot, and by simply spending a few minutes sitting behind the wheel with a pwer programmer end up with a 100HP boost with nearly 200lb-ft bonus in torque. All the capability is there, it just needs to be unlocked. MINI has a vested interest in keeping the ECU goodies under wraps in order to make their eventual JCW power level upgrades a saleable feature. It wont be long before someone stumbles into ECU nirvana.

I have a feeling that the new mill will offer a good deal of potential once the methods to get there are established. The new motor has solid construction, with the only real worry being the aluminum block for some. With a bedplate bottom end, iron liners, forged crank, it's got a good beginning. It's the new-skewl VVT, DI fuel system and variable area turbo that will have to be approached carefully. BMW was not about to design an engine that would barely hold at the 200-ish level. They have plans to put it there and offer a warranty to boot, like the JCW cars currently. The tech is new, but has a lot of potential. If this means a change of injectors and the CR fuel pump to reach a higher HP level, it will eventually happen. Same with the turbo. I just want to see first what is capable with what is already under the hood.

EDIT: Bonnet.

 

could new cars be sooo difficult to tune so that owners (not you gearheads, but less experienced people) have to take their cars in to get fixed--helping increase dealer maintenance fees?

or could it be that the average car buyer won't work on their own car, so manufacturers are designing cars without regard to owner-based "fixability"?

it just seems so many new cars out there are built so we can't even look at the engine--like it's a work of pure art instead of machinery.

dan

 

where are you getting that number, that sounds more like the older JCW kit that included a reworked head, thats were most of those man hours are coming from. The new kit is only a intake, exhaust, and chip. Im no professional but I think that can be done faster than 10hrs and for cheaper. This STAGE 1 JCW kit is really different than the last JCW cars, people need to make that distinction