TonyB
Would you please share with us the scoop that you used to increase the performance of the stock intercooler? I have a GP and would like to be able to keep my mods reversible. Just wondering if this maybe worthwhile. Thanks Steve

I had the GRS, and with Dr O's help, tested and analized its performance, and essentially found that a larger scoop, on the stock IC, outperformed it. Limited testing of the DFIC showed lower max IATs due to its improved ability to better utilize the ambient flow to cool the charged air. The additional benefit of pre & post core bungs, and access to the spark plugs is nice as well...

 

If you want an IC in the next several months, go with the DFIC. The DFIC has gone through many upgrades and improvements. The Alta is still very new.

 

Very true!

After talking with Will, my DFIC will be going through an improvement soon.

 

Bugs,

Better yet to spend another $500 and get real performance with a water to air intercooler without the pressure drop across these small intercoolers.

Bill

 

Back to this debate again...from what i remember the Alta was announced and being developed and tested quite a while before the DFIC. The DFIC just happened to hit the marketplace first.

 

If true, it is a moot point. The Alta product is still the first generation while the DFIC has been upgraded several times.

 

I have just about every mod available for the MCS, and I concur with what several others have recommended for your already modified car --- ported/polished head. After that, get an appropriate header with cat-back, and a proper ECU tune.

Good luck...

 

Steve, it was the Extreme Scoop that was sold by M7. I think he still sells them, but I'm not sure. I sold mine already, along with the GRS...

Here is a thread referencing that testing:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ta-logging+fun

If anyone remembers, Alta first mentioned that their V2 had origins dating back to SEMA last year. This was stated in a couple of threads. In the most recent one, they wrongly said long before the inception of the DFIC... like they knew when it was first conceived, and the details of subsequent testing and development. When confronted on this, a new time frame was then conveniently provided as to when Alta began this pursuit. Apparently SEMA last year was a typo. Whatever... It just becomes childish at some point as to who actually began first.

What matters, from a buisiness stand-point, is who finished first by gettng to market! And for the consumer, what matters is:

- performance
- features (current & expected)
- price
- support

IC's provided to us in the past typically had only a dyno number, at best. Maybe a temp delta from that dyno run... As we now are much more educated, these are virtually useless in characterizing the attributes of IC'ing system as heat escapes with the hood open and the scoop and diverter are not even evaluated, and that is huge. The DFIC, with bungs, allows for proper analysis; and this was done before release, during (as shared here on NAM), and still today by the many who have it...

"Better yet to spend another $500 and get real performance with a water to air intercooler without the pressure drop across these small intercoolers."

What? Pressure drop happens with increased volume, typically seen on larger ICs, or longer runs to/from those ICs - like what one might see on an FMIC. Water-to-air still uses ambient air to drop the temps, like a more direct air-to-air, that is lighter, cheaper and easier to install and maintain. The Gintani seems to hold some promise, but its official release has alluded us for a long time...

The thread creator states in the first post:

I've got it down to 3

Milltek Header (to compliment my new exhaust)
M7 DFIC top mount intercooler
Alta V2 top mount intercooler.

No other mods will be considerred. Just the 3 mentioned above.
=========

A head, from all that I have read, seems like it has a ton to offer... but, does not qualify, or meet his above request...

 

Tony,

Do yourself a favor and talk to Dr. O about the pressure drop across the DFIC and then we can talk again.

Bill

 

Dr O lives near me, and we chat fairly often. Just saw him at his home last week actually...

I measure pressure at the intake manifold via data-logging, and through my boost gauge that records highs. Compared to my GRS, I'm actually getting more boost with the DFIC.

As Matt (Dr O) taught me, the bottom line here is molecular density... the combo of temp and boost. From my days of studying the Gas Law, these are related, and not independent as they influence one another.

 

Bugs,
I don't believe there was any intention of hijacking your thread. A suggestion reguarding a head mod was just that. I, as well as others, agreed that the investment you are about to make could be better spent. Some of us have had more than 1 IC as an upgrade, some with more than 1 header. Given what some of us know about the available ICs & headers & the small gain in HP, for street driving, the head mod was a good faith sugestion for your consideration.
Post 33 by TonyB is absolutly right about your request.
I can't speak for the DFIC but to ask that you read all the posts reguarding the M7 piece.
The Alta V2 is a new product for which you may need to search for a review. This by no means that the V2 is not a good product & untill someone says otherwise it should be considered.
That said: You have the cat back already so the Milltek would be my first choice of the 3 posted.

 

You and I have same engine mods, but different brands. I also have a large scoop to "go with" the Alta IC diverter (both of which I just installed today). Other than that, I think they are identical.

I, too, thought about the "next step" for a long time. I considered a Milltek header, but I finally selected an OBX header ceramic coated, with a stock cat welded on by Helix. Even though the weather here is California has got to be a greater likelihood to retard timing than Canada's I rarely find loss of power occurring because of it. That's why I went with the header and an enlarged scoop, plus the Alta IC diverter.

What also influenced my decision is that I am planning on doing a head and ECU tune from FBT as the NEXT round -- maybe next summer -- so I figured the header would be a better use of $$ than a "super IC".

Whatever you choose will probably be a ton of fun! Enjoy!!

 

wow.. did i ever open a can of worms.

Thanks for all the opinions and information, even the unsolicited.

A head/cam would definatly be up on my list. But, one big thing you are not factoring in, is install

Header or TMIC, i can install myself, with little issues. Head is a bit deeper into the engine then i have the ability to do without having to hire some help.

I think i may be going with the header to start. Simple reason is, being the non tracker I am, and the fact that i really dont have too much of an issue with heat soak, the header makes more sense. And as soon as I am willing to pay for some help to install a head, I will add that.

Next can-o-worms.. which head

 

wegner

 

Sounds like your budget is around $700-$800?

Go for an OBX header and DFIC or MTH!

 

m7 and cosworth, i think that says alot about m7's products. Cosworth is a big name with a big reputation, i think the fact that they would associate their name with m7 says a lot about m7 and and about the dfic, i'm sure it's the top of the line when it comes to ic's, or anything they sell for that matter. However I say go with the obx headers though, it's probably the most cost effective buy and with the extra money saved maybe puchase the alta air diverter w/ sprayer and the m7 extreme hood scoop to help cool things down. My guess is that will give you the most gains in power for your money and a couple more names to throw around when talking about mods you've made to your car.

 

I assure you this is low on my priority. Hell the only reason i post mods in my sig is so others who may be looking for info may see what i have and know when i reply to posts, its not just talking out my ***.

In fact, in public, i keep as much of my mods secret as i can