>> I was planning on going to driving school this month, but the thought of Aug. heat, helmet head and keeping the windows up made me change my mind. I ain't cuttin' my hair though. I know a thousand ways to keep it outta my way (a single braid in back should work for the helmet).

How come I don't have that problem anymore...



And why did Milos Forman write the name of a car part on my hat...

Anyway, the correct way to drive the twisties, as I understand it, is to drive them as close to as if they were a straight line as possible. Imagine two parrallel lines, twisting. If you shoot straight down the middle, you go from the left shoulder to the right to the left again, without turning the wheel. As the road turns more then straight driving will allow, you aim for the apex, and shoot out the opposite end, aiming for the closest shoulder on the other side. Sort of a path of least resistance type thing.

Watch track racing on espn and you can see it very clearly in some shots. Turning right? Drive to the apec of the far left corner, aim for the right shoulder and come out on the far left corner again. You are actually trying to turn as little as possible.

There is a book on Amazon, called "Driving Fast" I think, that describes this very well.

Kim, a ton of holidays coming up in Sept and October, but if you do the school, let me know the date and maybe we can do it together? In fact (here I go again) maybe a bunch of us can pick a date and show up.

We can race for the pinks of the BMWs...

 

>>Pretty informative with a diagram.
>>The Apex

Good description, but I have to add that the late apex is pretty much all you want to do on the street. It will give you the best view of what is around the corner and gives you the greatest allowance to see and correct for:

The guy coming the other way who has drifted across the yellow line into your lane.

The rock that has rolled into the road in your lane around the corner.

Cars pulling out from side streets.

Deer standing in the road.

And the scariest for motorcyclists, gravel.

Motorcyclists use a rule of thumb that you should never enter a corner faster than will allow you to stop if an obstacle appears even if the corner could be taken faster. Most of the accidents I have seen when riding back roads have been due to violating this basic rule.

 

>>Anyway, the correct way to drive the twisties, as I understand it, is to drive them as close to as if they were a straight line as possible. Imagine two parrallel lines, twisting. If you shoot straight down the middle, you go from the left shoulder to the right to the left again, without turning the wheel. As the road turns more then straight driving will allow, you aim for the apex, and shoot out the opposite end, aiming for the closest shoulder on the other side. Sort of a path of least resistance type thing.

In general this approach is fine when all of the curves are about the same in radius and spaced about the same distance apart. But few curved roads are built like that so if the road is unfamiliar be careful with speed. The MC and MCS are very capable nonetheless. The car in back of you may be less capable.

Now here's the problem. You have a curve- you take the apex and hit it. Now what? You need to know what is up ahead. Let say that the curve you just passed has one more curve of like radius before it hits a straighaway. Then it is this second curve that should be driven at slightly faster speed than the first curve in order to hit the 2nd apex at the right spot to maintain speed for the straightaway. So in this example, on curve one maintain a slightly more controlled speed with a later apex the hit the second turn at the normal apex with slightly faster speed which leads to faster exit speed out of the turn which you can use in the straightaway. Everything depends on planning when driving on the track.

Hit the first curve in my example too fast then you will be hitting the apex of the next turn too early or loosing too much speed to make the turn and leave the second turn too slow entering the straightaway. Besides it is not as much fun and harder to control the car.

Pictures will help with this so check out the online tech article here:
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...ornering.lasso

>>Watch track racing on espn and you can see it very clearly in some shots. Turning right? Drive to the apec of the far left corner, aim for the right shoulder and come out on the far left corner again. You are actually trying to turn as little as possible.
>>
>>There is a book on Amazon, called "Driving Fast" I think, that describes this very well.
A good book-
"Going Faster!: Mastering the Art of Race Driving" (published by Bentley Publishers)
"Drive to Win" by Carroll Smith
>>
>>Kim, a ton of holidays coming up in Sept and October, but if you do the school, let me know the date and maybe we can do it together? In fact (here I go again) maybe a bunch of us can pick a date and show up.

Driving school is a good place to try these things out. Drive fast. Be safe.

 

... good points, Nuvo ... and i'll add that I always assume there is no other lane beyond the yello line - dottod or solid; i'f you treat the whole road like it's yours, you're bound to get into trouble - just pretend that you are on a one-;ane road and never cross the line ... then you can use more of a 'green line' approach ...

... the fun stuff begins when you have an "s" turn and have to figure how to make the exit of the first part become an approach for the second part ... !

 

>> ... good points, Nuvo ... and i'll add that I always assume there is no other lane beyond the yello line - dottod or solid; i'f you treat the whole road like it's yours, you're bound to get into trouble - just pretend that you are on a one-;ane road and never cross the line ... then you can use more of a 'green line' approach ...
>>
>> ... the fun stuff begins when you have an "s" turn and have to figure how to make the exit of the first part become an approach for the second part ... !

Definitely stay in your lane. On a motorcycle you have a little more room to move around in your lane and can use the early-late apex lines more effectively, but it still helps a little bit even with a small car in a single lane.

 

Wow! Some great information you've been giving out here, people!



While we're on the subject of curves - I've almost always had RWD cars. This will be my first FWD car that I'll take to the twisties. With a RWD car on curves it's bad to brake because you'll lose traction. Is the opposite then true of a FWD car?

 

>>Wow! Some great information you've been giving out here, people!
>>
>>
>>
>>While we're on the subject of curves - I've almost always had RWD cars. This will be my first FWD car that I'll take to the twisties. With a RWD car on curves it's bad to brake because you'll lose traction. Is the opposite then true of a FWD car?

Are you talking about what to do if you overcook a corner? Keep the throttle on and modulate the brake with the other foot. If you let off on the throttle completely the car will tend to head straight off the road.

 

Overcook a corner! Never heard it put like that! That's a great image! :smile:

Wow. That'll take some mental readjusting. Do you do that manuever with both feet or a kind of heel/toe thing?

 

>>Overcook a corner! Never heard it put like that! That's a great image! :smile:
>>
>>Wow. That'll take some mental readjusting. Do you do that manuever with both feet or a kind of heel/toe thing?

Both feet. I have never tried it heel&toe, so couldn't comment on the effectiveness of that. Yes, it takes some adjustment since your instinct is to lift the throttle

I would suggest practicing at maybe 6/10ths speed to get a feel for it until you are comfortable. This is one place where a proper dead pedal would really come in handy so your foot is already at the proper height to move over to the brake. We live in hope that somebody comes up with a nice aftermarket dead pedal.
_________________

 

Someone was asking me about how to learn more about their MINI and this thread came to mind so I recommended it.

Over the last few months,I've rather enjoyed reading through this informative thread, are there any updates or questions that might be burning a hole in your headliners?

 

Learn heel-toe. Driving with both feet is dangerous. Once you're used to it, the heel-toe method is really easy and fast (and safe!)

 

>>>>
>>Learn heel-toe. Driving with both feet is dangerous. Once you're used to it, the heel-toe method is really easy and fast (and safe!)

Heel-toe:D
Great for the track and everyday use too.
http://apps.edmunds.com/ownership/ho...2/article.html
Perfect practice makes perfect.

 

Before we forget and for the new members. Please take a look at this great longtime thread with great explanations of various performance stuff/topics. Tee Hee!!