Thank you Don That's all I needed to hear. I'm sorry you feel that you need to leave the thread. Like I said I am eager to up-load my new file and see results! I will be sure to post results when my final testing is done.

So far we are having amazing results with the mini head, even with stock valves and just some porting and other things. The prices are going to be extremely affordable! -- Johan

 

installinga motec will cause you to loose some features in your MINI. It will also require you to put a cable linkage throttle, and throttle body on the car. Also MoTecs are friggin expensive!!!!!

 

intersting... the fireball car doesn't have a problem running big injectors... we haven't had a problem running 550s how big of injector are we talking about?

 

From previous posts I have read, the Fireballed car doesn't seem to have a problem with anything. It just goes up and down the street in full OBDII compliance with ease. It revs to 8800 rpm, came stock at 170 FWHP, wins at the drag strip, and is driven home with the a/c and stereo on. And as I have said, I cannot make that happen and it might be wise for those who want that same level of performance to see the West Coast tuners because they claim to be able to make it happen.

I am speaking about anything bigger than 400cc.

 

wow...

okay... sensing a little sarcasm... thats fine by me...

well the fireball car drag car uses your wonderful MoTec... so absolutley no OBDII compliance on that one...

Now as far as tuls car is concerned... his car did make that much power stock actually i think it was 163 or 168 i cant remember... now im not sure if he redlines it to 8800 rpm or not havne't talked to him in a while... but i am pretty sure he is just using fireball software for rev limit reasons and a fuel controller and thats it...

 

well its good to accept defeat sometimes kidding of course... just because you can't do it doesn't mean that they can't...

 

Your information is in stark contrast to what I argued in other threads. Maybe they should be more open with that bit of information, don't you think? All the cars I do with MTH are in OBDII compliance. It was also mentioned in the thread I am referencing that the Fireballed guys have seen 10 or so cars at or around 170 FWHP stock. Their dyno shows them making more power at the wheels than BMW does at the crank. How does that happen? (And don't give the ridiculous line of production variation.)

 

Changing the rev limit is not tuning; it's adjusting the rpm.

 

WOW! Thanks for clearing that up for me!!! you are a godsend, i never said they used it to tune

 

the race car runs a motec... that should be pretty easy to figure out... just by taking a look at the pictures of the car... NO OBD compliance...

Now i don't know what they have said about the twin charged cars... but i am pretty sure they are just running a mod'ed limiter and a fuel controller... Nothing that special... what have you been lead to believe?

 

well I guess that's why we were asked to build the worlds fastest mini... and frankly your sarcasm is not appreciated... my self and Brian... heck even Isellem in the begining tried to be helpful to you... to understand why you were having trouble... but all you do is rant about how what we do is impossible... but it only seems to be impossible for you... I am currently running 550 cc injectors... stock ecu... no fancy blah blah blah... 2 of our other cars are also running 550s... and one even 650s... all stock ECU.... and none of the problems you have... maybe you should try another platform

 

First, congratulations on being asked to build the World's Fastest Mini.
650cc injectors in an OBDII compliant car that idles right and has no problems with cruise. As I have said, I cannot do that. BMW can’t even get their touring cars (we own one Turner, two PTG cars, and two Group A cars and all of them have changed the fuel system and ecu from stock) up to your level nor can Dinan (they change the stock fuel system and ecu parameters) as one of their first modifications.
We gained experience by trying it with one car we built for a customer in Canada. It runs full MoTec and that means it has full data acquisition. We just couldn't get the stock fuel system to handle the power the turbo was able to make. So we changed it completely and added one more injector.
I cannot compete with Fireballs so I will leave the thread. But in a friendly parting gesture I will be polite and will send you any and all business I can. For instance, when a customer tells me that the Fireball guys simply plug in up to 650cc injectors, use the stock ecu (not even reflash it with spark and fuel adjustments -- you said stock), and no ill side effects will be present I will refer them to you because all I would do is disappoint them with the truth. And who wants the truth to interfere with a good story. How is that for a deal?
Once again, congratulations.

 

Yeah, what he said ^...is exactly how I felt after reading your reply dmh... way too defensive in my opinion. You should stop while you're...well, behind at this point.

 

Hey, easy does it...
We all have opinions.
Will this turn into E v W? If so, now we're talking.

 

i once (in '03) had this dyno experience with Dr. Fuh, then known as Hubie:
car had the Endyn head, cam, header, 62 TB. manifolds matched, snoots extrude honed, 2-1/2" exhaust, 19% pulley. Hubie dynoed it at 180 (it had recently dynoed at 178 at Helix). H puts on the apexi and tweaks the A/F. he peaked at 198 after about eight tuning runs and he was trying hard to get the 200 grail. the car was too lean above 6k to do. next visit, he put on 440 RC injectors, another five or six A/F tuning runs on the dyno, hit 213.

 

not same but similar experience... currently running 440s

 

What were you running for injectors before the 440s?

 

Good thread.. however have you had the dyno run yet?? It really seems to me there is a lot of tech talk.. and what if's.. but no numbers?? are these RACE cars?? Or are they dual purpose cars?? ( some track mostly street??)
It is killer to read all the tech conserning head changes.. We just take a moded car.. Keeping it totally simple and with mods that MOST Minis have .. pulleys, Cold air, Shark, cat back.. and see what we can get!! After all the tech ( mind boggling ) and R&D ( forever) and install and dyno!! Gee thats easy!

on a 04 S with the usual bolt ons.. Stock intercooler. Stock Cam. Stock exhaust header. Stock valve size. And in 98* air temp. Pretty much just crank and s/c pully, cat back and cold air with a Shark.. and pulled 203 WHP ( 231 BHP @ 14%) !! NO idle issues!! No lowend power loss ( actually increase power thru entire rpm range (6800 rpm)) NO drivability issues at ALL!!

ALL the stuff we did to the heads... the Valve jobs.. bowl and port work.. ect, the guy doesnt care.. all he wanted was WHEEL HP!! and he wanted it with out having to spend 2 days on the net.. getting baffeled ( his words)!!
NOW all he needs is the Better i/c and possible a better tune .. and his power will only go UP from there... cool?? I respect all the tech.. and the trying to explain with out giving away the "tricks" to novice.. but the bottom line is the power to the ground.. dont you think for a street car, and most drivers??
Thanks..

Just me.............................................

Thumper

 

stock injectors before.

ended up with a very flat 12.5 A/F using the 440's. Hubie had to throttle them back considerably at less than 6k; even full bore, they were probably a bit large. car ran great though, never showed signs of richness in daily driving (usually the bane of too large injectors)

another variable that needs to be controlled is timing and that isn't done with the Apexi.

the final frontier is to control detonation as the boost goes up. best bet here is piston dome shape and intake charge temp control. The TC cars are able to take high boost without detonating because they don't blow so much hot air and they aren't using so much power to spin the blower like the 19% does.

 

Thanks for your post. I have talked to a guy who has one of your heads and is very pleased with it.

Yes my Mini has been on the Dyno with before and after pulls, however I am waiting for my new tune from MTH to relase my final conclusions. Please respect that. So far I am happy with the results.

For my particular head, it is designed for be a street/weekend race head. It wasn't an easy task but I think we did a good job.

 

Thanks that clears some things up.

I am real interested in the new tune from MTH. My wide band wasn't working so we used the tail sniffer, not the best I know but better than nothing, and man am I running rich! 9.9 at 6600

 

Wow, that's rich & loosing power too. Post results after the new MTH, AF is good enough for me.

 

thank you... it meant alot to us...

Belive me we were just as suprised... it was accualy quiite funny... and yet antoehr testiment to the versatility of the MINI and it's ECU


we didn't have a flash back in 02... that was before it was "fireballed"... refering people to us... sounds good... Deal!

 

well thats very cordial of you and very gratious of you. I am not being sarcastic i am being sincere.

However, i am having some difficulties with some of your comments...

You own a turner car, two ptg cars and two group a cars? You can correct me because i have no clue, but doesn't turner own the turner car? Just curious... Guess what, a friend of mine just purchased two PTG E46 M3's... it doesn't mean a whole lot if you own a PTG car other than you have quite a bit of money. Owning a MoTec or the fanciest machinery in the world means absolutley nothing... its the knowledge you put behind the tool, its how you use the tool. Not merely the fact that you own it and can turn it on and get through some things. It is actually knowing how to exploit every aspect of whatever that is front of you. That is called talent, something that does not come from ownership. Now, i am not saying that you are dumb or not as smart as i am or anything like that. I am just merely making a blanket statement it is not directed at you DMH in a harmful way.

and as far as Dinan is concerned... yes they mod the fuel system as one of the first things... great marketing... they get to sell there pulley for about 800 bucks along with a fuel pump... thats called marketing and increasing your margins. Also, you might be able to pick up some sales through scare tactics such as "we have found that the fuel system is inadequet for the additional amount of power... yada yada" it is proven the fuel system doesn't need to be changed for a 15% pulley. the stock pump can handle 240whp+ no problem!

And as far as truth is concerned... that was a very rude comment. The truth is these cars are out running around... and the truth is you can not do it at this time. Instead of spending your time shooting down facts, why don't you ask questions, you have the entire east coast market... you could make quite a bit of money if you just asked some questions or tried to figure it out for yourself.

 

Try 306 at the flywheel and its still below 10.0 AFR in 2nd 3rd 4th