Drivetrain Intercooler Theory
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
Actually, the Ideal Gas Law is for static gases in enclosed containers, not for gases flowing through a heat exchanger. That's why there's nothing in PV=nRT that will account for pressure/velocity changes due to changes in cross-sectional area at the inlet or outlet.
Also, if you try to use the Ideal Gas Law for this purpose, don't forget that as T decreases, n will increase as the density of the air goes up. That makes it impossible to use the IGL to determine what will happen to pressure as temperature changes, without knowing whether n increased more than T decreased.
Scott
Also, if you try to use the Ideal Gas Law for this purpose, don't forget that as T decreases, n will increase as the density of the air goes up. That makes it impossible to use the IGL to determine what will happen to pressure as temperature changes, without knowing whether n increased more than T decreased.
Scott
Add restriction to the IC = more SC heat.
I originally was going to write...
But to know number density, all you need to know is the pressure and temp.... That's the basis of speed/density engine management.
Matt
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
Regardless, the Ideal Gas Law is *still* the wrong equation for this application. The IGL is written for static conditions (no flow), in enclosed containers. It is *not* the appropriate formula for fluid flow through a heat exchanger, either steady-state or dynamic flow.
Grab a thermodynamics and fluid-flow textbook for the correct formulas. Some of the correct formulas may *resemble* the IGL, but they account for a lot more variables, like pressure changes due to velocity changes, resistance in the pipes, pressure/velocity changes due to changes in cross-sectional area, laminar versus turbulent flow, etcetera. All things that are VERY important in automotive theory.
If you've had Physics and Mechanics in college, do you remember how it was broken up into Statics and Dynamics? This is the same thing. The Ideal Gas Law is a "statics" problem, and thermodynamics and fluid flow is the "dynamics" equivalent to it.
Scott
It apears to some kind of apparatus disigned to impead flow by adding bends and to ruin the efficency of the main radiator and air conditioning condenser...
one more thing, if you have driven you mini a long time, you can increase the efficiency of the stock inter cooler by cleaning the inside with carb/throttle body cleaner. Also, pick up an oil catch can to keep the intercooler clean.
one more thing, if you have driven you mini a long time, you can increase the efficiency of the stock inter cooler by cleaning the inside with carb/throttle body cleaner. Also, pick up an oil catch can to keep the intercooler clean.
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: LI - massapequa
thats a front mount intercooler and according to these guys Webb makes it
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...641CE3CE56.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...98E71600DA.htm
i always thought that was just an experiment..
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...641CE3CE56.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...98E71600DA.htm
i always thought that was just an experiment..
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
I know this IC very well! I saw it first last year, about 18 months ago on the Mule in Randy Webb's shop. It sounds like a screaming banshee! I only saw and heard it static on the car. Later, at AMVIV (Las Vegas) I saw it installed on the car in the photo shown here. The guy who owned the car confirmed it was Webb's prototype. Randy had moved to the Gintani W2A system.
This car went out 3 times to lap, and each time returned within 3 laps. The boots between the CF horns and the IC kept moving up and loosening, and eventually leaking, causing massive loss of power on the track. He seemed frustrated, but claimed it was magic when not leaking, and that on the street it worked just fine, never slipping and leaking.
It's a great idea, but the CF and boots cannot cope with the engine movement, especially under hard accell. and decell.s
Anyway, that's what I know about this system.
cheers,
This car went out 3 times to lap, and each time returned within 3 laps. The boots between the CF horns and the IC kept moving up and loosening, and eventually leaking, causing massive loss of power on the track. He seemed frustrated, but claimed it was magic when not leaking, and that on the street it worked just fine, never slipping and leaking.
It's a great idea, but the CF and boots cannot cope with the engine movement, especially under hard accell. and decell.s
Anyway, that's what I know about this system.
cheers,
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
I know this IC very well! I saw it first last year, about 18 months ago on the Mule in Randy Webb's shop. It sounds like a screaming banshee! I only saw and heard it static on the car. Later, at AMVIV (Las Vegas) I saw it installed on the car in the photo shown here. The guy who owned the car confirmed it was Webb's prototype. Randy had moved to the Gintani W2A system.
This car went out 3 times to lap, and each time returned within 3 laps. The boots between the CF horns and the IC kept moving up and loosening, and eventually leaking, causing massive loss of power on the track. He seemed frustrated, but claimed it was magic when not leaking, and that on the street it worked just fine, never slipping and leaking.
It's a great idea, but the CF and boots cannot cope with the engine movement, especially under hard accell. and decell.s
Anyway, that's what I know about this system.
cheers,
This car went out 3 times to lap, and each time returned within 3 laps. The boots between the CF horns and the IC kept moving up and loosening, and eventually leaking, causing massive loss of power on the track. He seemed frustrated, but claimed it was magic when not leaking, and that on the street it worked just fine, never slipping and leaking.
It's a great idea, but the CF and boots cannot cope with the engine movement, especially under hard accell. and decell.s
Anyway, that's what I know about this system.
cheers,
Someone else may.
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
obehave is right--it's like the Parrot. It's an ex-IC, defunct, no more. It was a classic example of the tradeoff between lower pressure but higher flow and greater thermal efficiency. No numbers were ever produced, but my guess is that if you could have kept those boots sealed, the sucker would have produced some cold IATs.
back to story...
back to story...
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
Well, I'm buyin' it! I'll hang it on the wall of my garage, and call it "performance art". That's pretty cheap for sculpture, actually. I'll stick with the DFIC for my car...
good god man ;what the hell is that? !!! too much pressure drop to be sure.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
Free "performance art".
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
If the numbers are to be believed, the design worked.
Scott
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 874
Likes: 60
From: Modesto, Ca
I've got a water to air IC and it's just fine. I had it dynoed a couple of times and had no loss of HP after 3 runs do to heat. I don't need a fan blowing over the IC when it's on the dyno. It has a selfcontained system with it own radiator and water pump.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
You do need a fan blowing over the radiator for the W to A IC though.
