their graph is identical to my uk ggr 200hp kit....
is it the same thing???

diamond racing kit

 

Yes.

Have you gotten yours on the dyno yet?

I wonder where Diamond is getting their pulleys from as well.

I used the same software - the GGR/Superchips, and didn't see the same thing on the dyno that the Superchips chart was showing. Just curious if you were able to check it out on a dyno yet SMG.

 

hi randy,

my shop is too busy with their race cars......i'll hv to wait......but the performance of my car has improved quite a bit after putting on my new wheels...

should've got these wheels long time ago... :???:

i emailed ggr about the dyno chart and the guy told me it was dyno'ed on a stock car with just the pulley & ecu....

what figure did u get from just the intake, ggr pulley & supership ecu?

 

I really think this conversation is tough to continue until someone does a before and after dyno run using the ggr pulley and superchip ECU. The dyno graph that they are providing is basically useless because, 1) they are computing crank HP without providing the % driveline loss they are using (I'm guessing 15%), and, 2) they did not provide a before and after dyno run on the same car.

 

i'll try to get a wheel hp dyno graph from GGR...

 

i think this dyno graph shows the before & after dyno results.

Original :
165hp @ 6510rpm
150lb @ 4081rpm

GGR :
207hp @ 6613
187lb @ 3875





_________________

hamann diffuser, mat, pedals, hand brake, shiftknob, rays ce28n forged wheels, yoko 215/45/17 a048R, kw v2 coilovers, 8000k HID, magnecor & iridium plugs, aero grille, madness inatke, GGR S200

 

I thought Diamond had two CVT Coopers. Did you get a Cooper S to do a product eval on this? If so, how many miles are on it now with the pulley/software? Any real world impressions?

When Randy dyno'd his Cooper S, he got to 200 hp, but it took a lot more than a pulley and software. He had the Madness Intake, the Magnaflow, the London Stainless header, the larger throttle body, the 15% pulley and the software. The JCW kit has a lot more to it than a pulley and ECU programming to get to 200 hp as well.

Anyhow, just curious.

_________________
cranes folded: 670
to go: 330
YahooIM: denvermini

 

""When Randy dyno'd his Cooper S, he got to 200 hp, but it took a lot more than a pulley and software. He had the Madness Intake, the Magnaflow, the London Stainless header, the larger throttle body, the 15% pulley and the software. The JCW kit has a lot more to it than a pulley and ECU programming to get to 200 hp as well""

pls. kindly post a dyno graph.

200hp at crank or at wheel?

 

189 hp at the wheels
11% assumed for driveline loss
209 hp estimated at the crank

Randy's discussion of his dyno results

 

i'd also like to point out that GGR car & Hartge car was tested in the Cars & Cars Conversion march issue (uk megazine) and the tester commented that the torque increase of 37lb over stock is identical on these 2 cars......they end up think the GGR car is the one to pick coz the price is 2/3 of hartge's kit and similar power increase.

i checked out the hartge kit also but they don't seem to be able to provide a wheel dyno graph as well....the graph on the bird's uk site is just similar on the superchip graph......

will u guys query about the real power of hartge's car as welll?? that car has the ecu & pulley only..(they used stock header/cat/cetre pipe with a quad pipe silencer)....and they claimed 210hp & 185lb torque...

any comment?

 

SMG try going to mcshp.org they have information on several upgrades including Hartge. they show HP, torque, and pricing. Some have dyno's and sound as well.

 

mars31971 - tks. for the suggestion. i check that site regulary......great site......and i believe all tuners post their crank hp / torque graph instead of wheel hp / torque graph so there's no way for us to guess the actual wheel hp / torque result.

sleepless - ""The dyno graph that they are providing is basically useless because, 1) they are computing crank HP without providing the % driveline loss they are using (I'm guessing 15%), and, 2) they did not provide a before and after dyno run on the same car. ""

i guess not much true info we can get from all graphs from most tuners.

 

What stuff can be done not to void the factory warranty?

 

just found a thread from mini2...

BHP ??

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dark Mini
Podger as I live in Leicester near GGR and know the company quite well was thinking of getting the chip and the Magnaflow exhaust from them.
What BHP are you pushing out??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm getting 212 bhp,on an rolling road I use in the Midlands and that was with a PiperCross Cone filter, that was/is not part of the GGR Conversion, as I already had it.

I would really advice anybody not to be to hung up about max bhp though, it's torque and drive-ability that is most important.In standard form GGR would claim around 207 bhp I think ?.Their test car had not been run in when I drove it with less than 900 miles on the clock,but it has big brakes , which I didn't have.

I have 11,000 miles on the clock.

 

enough talk already,
so is this deamond racing 200hp kit for real or what?

bbt4

 

>>enough talk already,
>>so is this deamond racing 200hp kit for real or what?
>>
>>bbt4

Yeah, I think I said that about a dozen replies ago. Until an independent source shows me a before and after dyno that shows wheel horsepower this whole conversation is pure fantasy.

 

i'm happy with it....and i think 212hp on rolling road is not bad as a reference....and again.....no driveline loss % is present so no way to know the actual wheel power.

 

To answer a couple of questions, I am happy with the pulley mod - the Superchips/GGR software is only worth about 6 horspower more than with the pulley alone. I had 180 hp and 159 ft-lbs of torque with the pulley and all of the other stuff - intake, throttle body, header with cat, and Magnaflow. When I added the GGR software, I got a whopping 186 hp and 159 ft-lbs of torque. These are wheel numbers on a warm car.

I think you will be happy with the pulley - it makes great power all on its own. I'm still working on the software to go with it, as I'm just not happy with the fuel curves even after the Superchips/GGR upgrade.

As far as the 200 hp being real - dynos are easy to make numbers you want to show. Apply any driveline loss you like to get the numbers where you want them, run the car cold, run the car with an ice packed intercooler, etc. I'm not implying this was done, I just haven't been able to verify the numbers they have gotten.

Here's what I think - you do the pulley alone and you typically see a 17 or so wheel hp increase. If you add 6 wheel horsepower to that, you get 23. The stock runs we have done show 147-150 pretty consistently. That would give you around 170-175 at the wheels for the GGR conversion. Using the same 11% driveline loss, you will get around 192 hp at the flywheel with this conversion. The question becomes, is it worth the extra 6 or so horsepower for the software. My personal opinion was no. Take the 185 flywheel from the pulley and be happy with the $200 part. Then see what comes available - I will offer whatever software I figure out to be the best as a retro fit.

Let me know if any clarifications are needed. I'll get some digital pics of the Dyno charts and post them once I dig out of my house here in Denver - we got snowed in like nothing I've ever seen before (and that includes time in Chicago and NJ!).

Randy

 

randy, tks. for your comment.

is it possible to show me the increase of wheel hp & torque after each mod.???

1. base - 147 (+0)
2. intake - ??? (+??)
3. intake + exhaust - ??? (+??)
4. intake + exhaust + throttle - ??? (+??)
4. intake + exhaust + throttle + header w/ cat - ??? (+??)
5. intake + exhaust + throttle + header w/ cat + superchip - 186 (+39)

this is my question : (estimate wheel hp increase only)

car (A) - intake, header w/ cat, exhaust = (+15)

car (B) - intake, pulley & ecu = (+25)

if car (A) adds a pulley and ecu, can you say car (A) becomes (+40)???

and if car (B) adds intake, header w/ cat & exhaust, can u say car (B) becomes (+40)???

it doens't work like that , does it?

let's say adding an exhaust on a base car then it'll be (+10)

add an exhaust on a "already pulleyed & ecu'ed" car.......then you can't just add +10 onto what it's already is, rite? i'll guess the exhaust gain on this car will be less than +10....correct me if i'm wrong.

from base 147 to now 186 = 39hp increase.....and if hp is not cumulative, can u really say that the ecu itself only adds 6hp ???

pls. advise.

:???:

 

focusing on hp only is misleading. a chip that lets the engine rev to 7500 will almost guarantee more hp, with no other change to the power curve. what you really want to look at is the torque curve. It will typically max out around 4000 or so (and you want the max to be as high as possible) and then stay reasonably flat until it starts to fall off. the less it falls off the better.
Torque is the primary quantity measured by the dyno and shows you the engine efficiency over the rpm range. the shape of curve is every bit as important as he max reading. It will point out where you have weird breathing problems, resonances, etc.

 

i totally agree with you jim...i felt alot more torque from 4000rpm up after the pulley & ecu mod.

but it's really hard for me to tell if it's the pulley or the ecu to get me that extra 37lb torque and at 500rpm lower than standard.