I like how you blasted somebody for their first post when you have a whole 17... But then further drove your point home with a statement like that .

After reading your theories it doesn't suprise me that you havn't ever heard of these. But it apears "kwkshift" has already explained to you the benefit of them so I will spare you lecture.

 

The blast radius on that first post was a lot wider than the blast radius on mine, and I don't see you rolling your eyes at him.

True, I have a mere 17 posts on this forum, but the Internets are much bigger than just this board, and I've done my fair share of posting on a wide variety of forums, and I've seen "vendor shill first post syndrome" many, many times in the wild.

I'm just pulling back the curtain so people who haven't seen this practice before can see who's probably controlling the great Oz. It's up to everyone else to make their own decision about whether to trust the wizard or not.

And roll your eyes at me all you want about my asking for dyno test results. This is a performance mods forum...it's reasonable to ask what performance benefit the mod provides. If it can't be quantified with dyno tests, fine...explain it some other way. What I gather from kwkshift's excellent explanation is that it basically does nothing by itself, but merely enables removal of the cat, which has benefits both in performance and the sonic character of the vehicle.

Fine. It seems to me it would be possible to compare a stock Cooper S before and after the installation of the mod/cat removal. The vendor says he's tested this on his own 2006 Cooper S. Great...what's the before and after? The vendor himself makes claims that " Removing the cat should help much more than just installing after market catback exhaust". OK, let's see a comparison to a popular catback exhaust kit or two. Saying it doesn't make it true...show it.

So I come back to my original question: in a market full of Mini performance mods that don't toe the line of legality (whether you think the law just or unjust, it's still a risk factor), what's the compelling reason for buying this? What makes it better than a cat-back exhaust upgrade, and how much better is it?

Or if it's more about the sound than performance, then cool...let's hear a sound clip of what it sounds like after the conversion. If it sounds like an angry dragon with 'roid rage, then hey...that's something that might be worth breaking the law for.

 

The use of the term 'benefits' depends on context of course - it certainly won't benefit anyone subjected to breathing or hearing the results of the cat removal on the street

Here's info in case anyone wants to know what it does before removing it:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter.htm

 

Oh so you were try to use your expertise in the field of "internets forum posting" you prevent this guy from pulling the "curtain" over others and promote his product by using an alias.. This place is so lucky to have someone like you here to be our product police. Unfortunatly for you, you jumped the gun this time because this is a proven product that works. Try a google search for "O2 Simulator" that nets you about 350,000 results in a mere 0.41 seconds.

And I will continue to roll my eyes at you... . His job as a vendor of O2sim is to prove that he sells an effective product. These work and have been proven to prevent the car from getting a check engine light. Leave the dyno testing up to OBX, madness, alta, m7, webb or whoever else wants to manufacture a performance header. They are the people who need to come good on the claims that the header adds power. O2sim is simply a company that offers a product that makes using one of the other VENDORS products easier. Seems pointless to have O2 sim do the testing for all the other manufactures.

How many mini's are race cars. None of those cars legally need to have a cat on them. As for people on the street using them. Lets say you take your cat off and get a CEL. Now if you arn't very mechanical And something goes wrong. You might not know because your CEL is already on. But if you had an O2 sim your CEL would be off and when something bad happened your CEL would come on and know you know.

You can't compare an O2sim to a catback exhaust system. They are totally different products used for different purposes. Besides the fact that a cat back cost at least $500 and these are sold for a whole $30. The o2sim WILL NOT make your car sound any different, but removing your cat sure will.

 

Judging by the responses from users thus far, how well this specific implementation of the concept works for the MINI is not entirely certain. A few posts is not really decisive either way, but the response from customers hasn't been 100% positive.

Fair enough. But I didn't make that comparison first, the vendor did.

OK, if you get semantic, the vendor technically compared an O2sim and removed cat to a catback exhaust system. Still, he presented the comparison to a catback as one of the reasons to choose his product.

100% right. However, if the o2sim is only useful to me if I also remove the cat, install a new header, or make some other change, then the total cost of the mod includes everything else I have to do to make it useful, otherwise I spent $30 on a circuit that does nothing meaningful for me.

The cost also includes any financial risk from potentially breaking a law or invalidating a warranty, if any. But as you point out, if I'm only/primarily using the car for racing/tracking, these latter costs probably don't concern me. On the other hand, for daily drivers it would be a genuine concern.

Anyway, amidst the sarcasm, this discussion has actually managed to have some educational content. For that, I thank you.

 

Just a thought... A possible reason you guys havent seen too large a demand for o2sims in the MINI market is due to the extremley high price point on many of the MINI cats. If there were more OBX priced headers out there, im sure the demand would be higher...

Everybody who has an aftermarket header, even many people with ones with cats on them, have had to worry about throwing a SES warning because of the o2 sesnors. I, for one, am glad to see this guy offering this product.

 

There are a butt-load more cars on the streets, and if you think cats and haven't helped the air, look at photos of the LA basin from the early 70s.

O2 sims have their place on track cars, so you can see the codes that are thrown, without having to scan all the time because you always have a code for a missing cat. But for street cars, it's just a selfish act...

Matt

 

Wow, some of you f*cking people are crazy.

Eval, thanks for chiming in, but where the hell is everyone else here? It's like this is crazy world or some ****...

Removing the cat for power gains on a stret car?!?!?!?

How many "track only" MINIs are there out there? Onasled and Nuzzo are the only ones I know of... This would only be used for an "off-road" car, like a track only car. Just the fact that the vendor does NOT clearly state that makes me want to ask NAM to ban his irresponsible ***.

EVERYONE ELSE should have a functioning cat on their car, NO EXCUSES.

OK, Here's what I hear...
"Oh, hey, after I rip that worthless cat off my car so I gain a half-a-horse (AWESOME POWER GAIN!!!) I'm going to change my oil, I guess I'll just dump that into the ground water supply, and change my battery, and just dump the old one in some field that doesn't matter... ***** it, right? What I do doesn't make a difference since there are corporations out there polluting more than I do... I'm just a small percentage... That doesn't matter."

Meanwhile, you are a frigging ******** with a half-horse more. Sweet. Good work.

And now, quote my words and go ***** yourself.

Goodnight.

 

Meh, cat-schmat.

There's a lot of things everyone should do, but they don't. Don't get your panties in a wad.

*woo-saahh, woo-saahh*

 

right, woo-sah...

But it's not like you need to do anything...

IT'S ALREADY ON THERE!!!!!!!!!

 

I hear ya sandtoast500. It is sad sign of things that people shrug off the effects of their actions and how it cumulatively effects others and the world simply because it is what they want to do. Toss crap out of your window and litter, wake up everyone in the middle of the night with your giant sub or straightpipe, grossly pollute and contribute to the crud in the air causing asthma and acide rain, etc etc, - so many just don't seem to care about others at all. Then when the acid rain etches their car paint, or laws with stricter sound limitations, car inspections and higher costs come up you'll hear all the b*tching . And I agree that this is an odd product for NAM to be endorsing considering that so few cars are track only...

 

Not that I'm one to be actually bothered by the language in sandtoast500's post... but dude, tone it down some will you? It's not like the words are flying out of your upset mouth. You can take the time to get your point across without calling anyone crazy, much less your weak attempt at typing out explicitives with a star in place of a vowel. There are rules here, and I like my Mini community nice nice. It's what separates us from the Mustang crowd.

 

I'm gonna go pout for a while....

Matt

 

Remember..."box of puppies."

 

So do I actually.... but have you spent much time on the Mustang Forums? They just aren't on the same level as the Mini crowd somehow... You don't see anyone developing a PHIX for New Mustang issues in the community... There is no RANDY that you can rely on for good advice and products.

Ok... I've said my piece. For the record, I just don't want to see anyone banned themselves just for a post sharing an opinion... just can't be too rough about it is all.

Oh yes... for the record so I'm not totally off track... I can't see myself being a customer for this product. I just can't see the Cat being such a bottleneck it's holding us all back somehow.

 

I apologize for the way my post was written. It's been a hell of a day.

But really, take some responsibility for the world. Don't like the cat? Get a high flow cat, or something like the 400 cell on the MTH header. Just don't hack it out and trick your car into thinking it's still there.

And, please, no more stories about, "I haven't been running cats for 20 years!" NO ONE IS IMPRESSED.

 

I guess I will start with: I personally know of 10 track only MINIs in AZ.

Your right, when I took my cat off my MINI I only got about 1/2 more whp. But you should have seen what it did to my torque curve

I am just going to stop there because I am not allowed to say curse words, call people names, or do anything else that may personally offend anyone or I will get kicked off of NAM.

 

As someone that likes some of the models of cars that Mercedes manufactures, your signature offends me.

There. Take that.

 

Mercedes factories pollute the world a lot more than the BMW factories do...

Take that!

 

I know...duh! That's why I like them!!!!!!!!!

 

maybe we should all get horses, then everyone can play nice


cheers

 

Wow ... please play nice.
I am a possable purchaser for this item ... STOP !!!no hate mail yet please.

I have a MINI MANI header WITH cat.
Mini Mania is working on a fix but none yet...

I throw a P0420 code at least weekly if I reset.
(catalitic converter below threshold)
The cat does work and, my pal did a "smog check" that I pass with flying colors. BUT I keep having that pesky code.

The tolerance for the sensor and computer are tripping the code although the car meet ALL smog (CA) requirements.
OK I could change back to stock but that is no fun.
If I reset the code it will come back shortly...
If I leave the SES light on, I would not know of "other issues" that would display a different code.

With one ot these dohickies my system would be able to warn me if something else does happen.

So...I might buy one.
I feel that by myself I am NOT adversly adding to polution problems.
Maybe with this device catch something that could.

Boys it isn't all black and white.

 

Oh, and KWKSHIFT the person whos sig "offends" you is an ad by BMW not him.

Oh and your location is "on your girlfriend"
You made that one and it offends me.

We could all jump on eachother about all kinds of things.

No one should be banned and we should be able to talk and learn

 

Exactly why I bought it and spent an additional two hundred plus dollars trying to make it work.

But it was totally unreliable. Might work for a day or two, then throw a code itself.

In my years of posting on boards, I've never really made a negative statement about a product or company, but this experience was simply unacceptable all around.

But as they say, YMMV...

 

Hmmm....perhaps you didn't notice the dripping sarcasm in my post?