MSRP is twice that, with a "your price" as what is quoted? The table I made was from the SuperSprintNA site!

Look here for an example...

I guess this horse has been beaten to death....

The manufacturing world is changing, and time constants are shorter. I'm fine with SS pricing any way they want. You get better service and support for the premium.

I just don't buy the morality argument at all. Macncheese's point is perfect, if the business model supports doing the work, go for it. If it doesn't, then don't.

Life goes on.....

Matt

 

Makes sense to me. There seems to be two markets here with not much overlay. People with the cashflow that want a top notch system, and people with less cashflow that want something other than stock. I am of the latter. I wouldnt spend that much on the SS header, so they are not losing business from me if I buy the OBX. Much like Rolex is not really hurt that I am wearing a Mexican Rolex right now.

There may be a few people who actually do decide between SS or OBX, but for the most part I would guess they fall into their market whether they are performance enthusiasts with cash to burn or looking for cheap rides like me.

 

I almost got one of those Rolex watches for a departing employee.

I can't belive anyone takes them seriously.

The contradiction I see is the with the worker asking for higher pay, benefits, pension plan, etc. and at the same time trying to find cheaper parts (group buy anyone?) It seems obvious to me this demand forces manufacture overseas where wages are still medieval. The flip side is what happens to GM, IBM, etc. Check out Fieldman's book "The World is Flat"

 

NO. If I was singling you or SpiderX out, I would have directed my comments directly to you. I am talking generality and not singling anyone out. This subject matter was raised in two earlier posts discussing OBX Header and Exhaust.

I don't think I ever implied that you made a derogatory remark about Asia, if I did it was inadvertent and I if I did please point it out and I will appologize for that was not my intent. Again I am talking generalities and am not saying that YOUR position is due to the product being manufactured in Asia.

You should not take exception for I am not singling you out just sharing my opinion and a point of view.I appreciate your being sensitive and giving the benefit of the doubt. Believe it or not, I too tried to be sensitive by being subtle for I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here but participate in a discussion.

It was only until today that Chris from Promini (apparently representing SS) has spoken on behalf of SS, saying it was an unathorized reproduction. It is at this point in time that we should be discussing a SS clone by OBX. Any sooner would be jumping the gun.
The fact that people just assumed that it was a "copy job"is a perfect example of pre-conceived notion/bias.
In sum this is what I am saying -

If one's opinion about a OBX/SS is one that one would not buy the product because it is a "copy job" and have other "copy jobs" products on their car - I say it is not about "copy jobs" - there is something else influencing the decision not to buy OBX. And yes, I dared to put out there that that influence "might" just be a far east bias. People have bias's of some kind or another - human nature. To be perfectly blunt - there are those that will not buy this product because it comes from ASIA but if it were made in the USA would buy it in a heart beat for $200.00 bucks regardless if it was a copy job.

Any comments, I have made in regards to Asia/far east have not been in themselves derogatory nor were they intended to be derogatory. I have merely put out there a negative asian bias might be a reason for damming an OBX purchase. Again speaking generalities and am not saying this is your case or SpiderX.

Personally, I have enjoyed reading your point of view, have a respect for your sharing your opinion and happen to agree with parts of your point of view. It is not a matter of you and I agreeing but having mutual respect for one another.

 

You obviously haven't seen my Polex then. It is a very nice looking watch and everyone thinks it is real. The only way to tell that it is fake is that it ticks instead of rolls like a Rolex should.

Now heres the point: If you are in an economic state where you can afford a real Rolex, then go for it, but no need to talk trash. I am however in an economic state where I would never spend the money on a real Rolex, but do thoroughly enjoy my fake which still tells the time quite well, and I do not feel that I have hurt the Rolex Coporation as I would never have bought a real one in the first place.

(You are right though, it is kinda funny.)

 

But here are a couple of other things to think about. My company (well, the one I work for) has had to move manufacturing (some, but not all) to China and Mexico. If we don't, our costs aren't competative, and our customers will go elsewhere for equivalent products (not copies per se, but meeting their spec).

The company I work for has no problem buying parts that our competition makes, to see if they do anything smarter than we do. If they do and it's not protected, we have to respond, either by incorporating their innovations, or creating equivalent ones.

How many of us have or have owned a pair of Nikes? or any Nike branded products (they aren't the only one to use cheap labor... But it's a good example).

For an interresting read, look at Collapse, by Jared Diamond.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067...lance&n=283155
This looks at the choices that societies make, and how that contributes to thier downfal. The search for ever cheaper labor and outsourcing, resulting in less control of what our society is dependant on, is a very strong leader of societal failure. There are a lot of good arguments that persuit of the ever more efficient manufacturing solution, with no regard to qaulity of life, wage level etc. is fundimentally to all but equity holders... And this point is pretty much ignored by current economic and political polacies.

But untill that changes.... You have to swim with the sharks...

Matt

 

Terrible example / association / parallel - OBX is not stamping SS on their header. OBX is not falsely misrepresenting their header as SS for 200.00 bucks. For 200 bucks your getting an OBX header - and via this board it is apparent that it does not match up to the SS product.

True you are not hurting them FINANCIALLY (Rolex is in the high end market and as you said you would never buy a Rolex) but you are hurting them BRAND wise. When people admire your "Rolex" do you tell them it is a fake?

 

This is a key point. If, in fact, SS considers OBX as a knock-off, isn't it up to them to get the judicial system to go after them?

 

Group,

I am an employee of Supersprint NA and we are the North American representation of Supersprint Italy. Chris

 

Well, not necessarily... Look at it this way: how is that allure affected? People SEE a Rolex watch, gawk, are awed. Now, if a person never sees a Rolex watch, they will never think to it the special attention that it deserves. If, in fact, the Rolex they see is a good copy to inspection, and it's touted as a Rolex, then the lustre lives on. If it's a bad copy, people who care call you on it. In the end, though, immitation is the best form of flattery- I personally love Ebel watches, which are very fine pieces, but the average person has never seen one, so you won't see too many imitations available.

Simple fact: Rolex fakes have been around for ages, but has Rolex gone out of business or shown any damage to its prestige? Does Rolex care if people pass of imitations for cheap? Probably not as much as if they pass them off for Rolex prices . As some say, "imitation is the best form of flattery."

 

Of course. Just like you don't buy an OBX and say it is a SS.

 

Rolex probably does care but the reality is its about impossible to stop. The facts, are, however, that the knockoffs dont have the quality and will stop ticking long before the Rolex Then again... maybe not. How long have you had it?

 

Watch out MINI!


Oh no!

 

Ive only had it a few months, but I have had many cheap watches and a few nicer watches, and I never had any die, just dead batteries. Funny thing is that it probably comes from the same factory that many fashion watches do (not Rolex, of course). To me, a watch is a watch.

 

\

See??? And that is what makes America great. To some people a Rolex is a masterpiece, an expensive timepiece, finely crafted, to be handed down through the generations.

To some, a MINI is a car. To others, its a Masterpiece, finely crafted to be handed down through the generations!

 

I think what SS decides to do is their business. My guess is that they do not have a legal backing to stop OBX. My second is that they do not expect or seek to make money via volume header sales but via preimium sales of a high end product. And my third guess is that the MCS header/exhaust is a small market - and sad to say insignificant for SS. Let's say that OBX has sold twice as many headers than SS has to the MCS market. If true SS has made more $ than OBX in this market place - so who is smarter? Even at 3 to one I bet SS has made more $ than OBX.

My biggest primary issue has not been to "buy or not to buy an OBX header" - thats up to each of us. My issue has been discussing "buy or not to buy an OBX header because its a copy/clone,... when only until today do we know that for a fact. Why did people assume that it was? For those that said I new it all along - just look at it and compare. Why did no one assume that SS copied OBX? I am suggesting that it boils down to preconceived bias that OBX is a far east company and thats what far east companies do. I am making a point and do not necesarily believe in this point.

 

Actually, a ROLEX is an investment that tells time.

 

The Rolex clones say Rolex, etc. and are infringing on protected content. The OBX doesn't.

And by the way, clone watches seem to be a growth area. You can get Ebel, Patek Phillipe etc. I get about 4 spams a day at work about clone watches. Even through the spam filter.

The fake Rolexes ARE based on illigal activities.

Matt

 

The market will sort this out. If its a "cheap" copy and over time "fails" because of poor quality, their business will be gone. Sometimes we get what we pay for.

 

I do this all the time. This whole time that I have been speaking of capitalism I am actually a social democrat. But since this is not a social democracy that we live in and is actually a capitalist society, that is reality, not what I believe.

 

One of the smartest things said so far in this thread, I couldn't agree more.

 

Now I'm thourghly confused where your opinion lies and down know how or if I should rebut.

 

Haha . Maybe I shouldnt have said that. Silly PoliSci major here. I am arguing for our current corrupt system, how things currently are, and what is and isnt legal. But I do not support this system or think it is right, I am just stating what I think is reality, as my ideal political system will never exist here. Too many PoliSci papers I guess. I once wrote a paper on how Monarchy was the best form of government. Did I believe it, no.

Yes, Chows4us is right. Ther market will sort things out. If OBX is crap then we will here about it and no one on NAM would buy it after word got out that it was, and the same would be elsewhere.

I guess my stance is this: Is it morally right? No. Is it illegal? No. Is it healthy for our economy? Yes. Is it fair to SuperSprint? No. Will I buy OBX? Yes, as I don't believe it will make any difference.

How's that for confusion?

 

Am I in 5th gear yet or what?

 

For the same reason that you would assume that any new wheel Rota released was a copy.

Please drop the regional bias argument... OBX established their business model on day 1 and hasn't strayed from it. One day, I might incorrectly assume that one of their products is a knockoff, but that day hasn't come yet - and it won't have a thing to do with them being a "far east company". It's never crossed my mind where they did business, and I still have no idea where that might be.

...then again, I'm in the IT field so all my hatred is supposed to be directed towards India/Pakistan anyway right?