I've gotten a few PM's on this the past month... This is actually a continuation of me sharing in someone else's cool mods thread a few weeks back (about 1/2 way down):

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...t=GRS+diverter

Part 3 is currently in the works, and I feel that this addtion will aid the GRS IC as much, if not more than the fabricated diverter.

For those who don't know, the GRS utilizes a hood-mounted fiberglass piece with open cell foam strips to seal around the sides and rear of the unit when closed. Here's a photo of it not installed, after I layered the foam with some high temp silicone (Part 1), which allows it to remain contour-able, while preventing less air to seep through:



The foam on the sides compacts fairly well against the top of the GRS IC when the hood is closed. However, the rear portion does not sit atop the IC, by design. If so, it would cover the fins in that area, thus inhibiting downward flow in that area (not good). GRS's answer was to drape the rear foam strip just behind the back edge of the IC. I wasn't so keen on this approach upon seeing it, and the data-logging validated that it had some short-comings when compared to the stocker's ability to cool.

With the hood closed (before I made/installed the diverter - Part 2), I stuck an extended tape measure through the mailbox, and with minimal pressure it was easy to create a gap exposing space just over the spark plug wires. It didn't take much imagination to visualize what's happening at high speeds. While the driver and passenger side foam formed a nice seal, the rear sucked, and that is probably the most important one given that the air is rushing in from the front, straight toward the back...

So, the next mod was in order, and that was to create a flat surface for the rear foam strip to compress upon. Once again I was fortunate to have had the perfect size of aluminum angle to make this happen. After a few minutes of taking measurements, and about 10 minutes with a Dremel cutting wheel, I made something that should do the trick. I drilled several holes in it to aid in the adhesion process (good ole J-B Weld coming next). The photo below of it on the GRS IC has it taped into place just for the visual...

I'm still minus a nice camera, so I'm dorking around with a webcam, thus the low quality photos. I'm eye-balling another Canon - the 350D . Until then, crappy pictures...

 

Nice work! Good thinking! Let us know the results before and after...Have you done a dyno before and after the GRS? If so, PM or post the results, please.

 

How about a pic from the side Tony.

Good stuff as always

 

Putting-on the J-B Weld now, then it will sit for the night... I'll get a side view tomorrow obe.

I've never done a dyno, and to be honest, a dyno is not ideal for judging something like this (hood is open). Data-logging (while driving) is the way to go, and I do indeed have some nice baselines for comparo purposes...

As I shared in that other thread, the diverter definitely helped in distributing air through the GRS IC as the front is no longer hotter that the back part, by the touch. The stock and Alta have one for a reason...

With the back foam strip sealing better, less air will escape, and be driven downward through the fins, cooling the charged air more effectively.

I noticed while removing the GRS IC that I no longer need the rear stock mounting points (photo attached). So, two good chunks of metal removed (I'm big on weight-reduction), also making for more room below the GRS, and easier access to the #1 spark plug wire. I filled those threaded holes with the same high-temp aluminized silicone.

 

The J-B Weld did a fantastic job securing this piece to the GRS IC. It took a good 20 minutes to clean it up with some emery paper, and it turned-out quite nice. I shot some of that high-temp silicone in a couple small areas where the piece wasn't a perfect cut...

It will install it tomorrow. A few more photos...

 

Tony,
How high is that diverter from the face of the IC? (the one placed in the middle of the IC) And and what angle is the diverter with respect to the IC? I have all the materials for the 2 mods, I'll be working on it this week.

Keep up the great work!

By the way, when you logged the GRS vs Stock and with the M7 scoop. Was there a difference in IAT's with the M7 scoop and GRS as compared to Stock and M7 scoop? I was thinking that maybe the reason why the GRS didn't drop the temps at all was because the air coming in the scoop was insufficient for the needs of the bigger IC. What do you think?

John

 

Tony, you drinkin' too much coffee? Let me know when you want to borrow the logging stuff.... But it will be hard to do a before and after with your new stuff. Could do a stock to this comparison again though, look for a higher percentage difference....

Let me know.

Matt

 

John, just got out a ruler and protractor... From the top of the cooling surface of the GRS to the top of the aluminum diverter is just a hair under 5/8 of an inch. It's about 30 degrees from horizontal...

Probably not evident in the photos here and the initial thread is that I put an edge on the diverter so it wouldn't be so blunt, and with that better slice the air into what's going down, and what continues rearward. I didn’t make it so sharp as to slice anything like skin though . Along those lines, I also rounded the corners a tad on the rear lip I just added. Trying to prevent any future loss of blood while wrenching on the car .

The M7 scoop lowered IATs for both IC's (stock & GRS).

My initial inquiry into this was with the stock IC and stock scoop and the GRS IC and stock scoop. I used my CarChip E/X which logs only once every 5 seconds. However, with 20 minute runs, pulling every 5 seconds is not really all that bad. Same road, driver input, and ambient temps... the stocker (IC & scoop) got lower IAT's. I then worked with DrObnxs who's a beta BiM-COM evaluator, and with that software logging 5x a second, it validated the CarChip data that the stock IC (and it's diversion system) makes for lower IAT's. The M7 scoop worked well for both, but still leaving the stock IC with more desirable temps.

It seemed to me that the GRS system was not making as effective use of the cool ambient air, and that reinforced what I saw, and had me address concerns with these mods...

The GRS IC itself, its design and build quality are apparently exceptional, and I wouldn't argue that for a second, especially with my limited knowledge on such matters. However, I'm convinced that while it might perform well on a dyno, with the hood open, not under heat-soak conditions, nor diverter influence, real world conditions has proved otherwise for me; and were talking many runs with different data-loggers, different scoops, and two different ambient temps (68 and 98F).

As shared in that comparo thread a couple months back, the GRS actually got slightly more boost, which is odd as the general pitch as I've heard it has always been... 'get lower IATs with a larger IC, and the pressure loss is only minimal.' Maybe on a dyno that's the case, but while actually driving it, under load, the GRS got more max boost in all like runs compared to stock. Again, it was minimal, but consistent. Unfortunately, also consistent, as well as contrary to belief, was that IATs were not improved, and were generally worse. The two (boost & temp) coupled together make more molecular density, and that’s sort of the bottom-line here (thanks Matt). And, prior to all of these mods to improve matters, the molecular density seen on the GRS was better than stock, but only marginally, something equating to a couple of hp on a 200 hp car.

In the case of the GRS, it's my belief that it doesn't utilize the scooped air very well... and I'm very certain that I've changed that quite a bit. Just sharing as I find this quite interesting, and I realize that others might this info helpful...

 

Tony,
Thanks for all of the info. It's strange that the GRS made more boost and higher IAT's. I got the GRS to combat the heat of the 19% it seems dissapointing that after spending that much I gain a little boost and even lost out on IAT. I am thinking that the loss is due to the thicker IC not having enough room underneath it to let the air pass through. The thinner stock IC sits a bit higher therefore providing better airflow for the hot air coming out of the IC fins. I hope your mods will help our IC's work better though. Maybe you could do some logging with the new mods to the GRS.

I actually had an idea of changing the whole angle of the IC with respect to the scoop to allow for better airflow. Instead of having it parallel to the incoming air, I was thinking of raising the back side of the IC (the side right over the sparkplug caps) and have it come closer to the diverter while the front section would still be the same. This would force more air into the fins since it would be facing the incoming air and also allow for air to flow better underneath the IC. Just a thought. But i would need new end tanks for this to be done, and I'm sure it would be very difficult to get the alignment correct so I'll leave it to the manufacturers. I actually suggested this to Graham but got no response.

Thanks again for the info!

John

 

Just a quick enquiry. Is the J B weld sufficient to withstand the temperatures of the engine compartment? I have no knowledge of adhesives and one that can withstand the engine compartment environment would be useful.

 

JBWeld should have no problems with underhood heat. It can actually be used to fix minor cracks in engine blocks and heads.

It's really amazing stuff...

 

John, I agree that there's little space below for ideal flow through. Making this worse is the running of additional stuff, like OCC plumbing or that of a VGS. Removing those two stock IC rear support chunks of metal (photo above) does help though! If we can form a tight seal on top, which I feel that I have, that space atop of the IC will pressurize, and choose the path of least resistance, and that will be downward, which is what we want...

Our IC's don't sit perfectly flat or parallel to the road, at least I'm quite certain of that (mine has not yet been re-installed). I believe it slopes upward as it goes back. All the more reason to have some type of diverter in the forward part to direct some that air through the front fins. As far as tilting the back further upward, there is very little tolerance to do so becauce the horns need to line-up with the inlet and outlet of the IC. One of our tuners is pondering a design change other than the typical rectangular shape; one that would address some of your valid concerns...

Stu, yes, J-B Weld is pretty awesome stuff! It has been around for eons, and would make a cool infomercial that many would not believe .

Matt, sorry... thanks for the offer, and I would like very much to take you up on that. Yah, up late... drinking, was a bit depressed about my alma mater playing poorly (football). I can always escape with the MINI, in more ways than one! Oh, I'm starting a new position (again), and I won't be a block away from you anymore.... 3 blocks away starting on the 14th. Chat later...

 

Tony sent you a pm regarding your mods.

P.S. Sorry about Cal I was pulling for them.

 

Steve, I apologize.

I've noticed that I had quite a few PMs since I woke-up this morning. Just looked at yours now. Between selling stuff in the Marketplace, these GRS additions, plus other mods I've done in the past, I have a hard time keeping-up...

Took today off work to get some things done around the house, and on the MINI... With regard to your PM, I'll gladly chat with him. He's a really friendly guy, and actually went out his way to call me at work, from the UK, to adivse me of some concerns regarding some IC boots I was planning to use .

 

No problem. I just wanted to let you know about the pm. He is a great guy and called me at work to discuss the email I sent to him. I think the more we can do to help each other in the MINI community the better, in the long run we all will benefit. Again thanks for all the work you have put into this mod. I’ll be using it to make my GRS work better. And the better it works the more that large amount of $/£ will be better spent.

Looking forward to meeting ya at the Bay Area pulley party on a couple of weeks.

 

Tony and Steve, as long as the topics of discussion are not trade secrets, would you please share Graham's thoughts once you've had the chance to speak with him? I have a GTT i/c awaiting install, and I'm really appreciating everything you've shared thus far on the thread. Thanks!

 

Don't really think there any trade secrets here. As you see Tony has posted his minor but effective mods here. I spoke to Graham to see if one he could add these to my IC being built to avoid me having to do the work when I get mine (not that I couldn’t follow Tony’s instructions) but more importantly to see if he would tig weld the parts in place so I wouldn’t have to do the JB weld thing. And two to let him know that his product could be enhanced. He wanted to speak with Tony so as not to just steal his ideas and see what else Tony could let him know about what he has found out. I think if these ideas have been expressed in a public forum they wouldn’t be considered trade secrets. I’ll let Tony comment further after he and Graham talk.

 

SCMS expressed my feeling very well. Nothing secretive here, and to the contrary, that is why I share... so others can do the same, if they wish.

FWIW, I emailed and spoke with Graham shortly after I opened the GRS box. I shared with him some ideas that I had, and some testing that I was going to do. Thereafter, we communicated several times, and he was privy to my preliminary findings weeks before I shared here on NAM...

Not sure if I'll have time to chat with him this week during work (pretty hectic), but once home, I'll make the time. Actually, come to think of it, he called me once or twice at home! Exceptional customer service. Graham, if you're reading this, feel free to ring me up to 11pm PST. And, if you feel that you need my permission in any way to proceed with incoroporating some of these mods, please don't feel compelled to call... no problem!

Well, I put the GRS back into my MCS, and that back strip (.5" wide) fit just as I had hoped. I closed the hood (or bonnet) and I didn't here anything crack, namely fiberglass . Looking through the scoop, with a long wire reaching back, probbing into the foam revealed that it is quite snug up against the added ledge . The camera I now have available to me is just too weak to get any nice photos inside the scoop (I tried). Here are a couple with the hood open...

A drive at 61 degrees F felt very nice. I'm sure some of this was placebo though... Data-logging will confirm, and that will happen...

 

Thanks for the info Tony! Graham has redesigned the diverter slightly, and the new design fits a bit better than the original.

I have a couple of these in stock again by the way .

Randy

 

Good to hear Randy! Curious to see the changes... Product evolution is natural, and good to see. Thanks for letting us know.

 

Tony- I emailed Graham the link to your post #18.

 

I think you have nailed this on the head. I've looked at the enhanced scoops and IC but at the end of the day its about FLOW. Some guys have actually raised the back of their stock IC using washers in the rear. I actually put 1 washer in the front (1/16 perhaps) and 3 in the back (3/16) to permit more flow. I do believe an angled IC is the solution and then complimented with a larger scoop.

M7 tried moving the IC to the front but my thought was to move the IC back farther over the igition / exhaust manifold area this should increase the flow of air (i.e. in /out).

 

nice work tonyb..

just a quickie question... do you know what i can do to replace the foam around the outside? i had my GRS for a bit less than a year and was looking for a solution to replace the foam that's now almost completely gone

 

Check your local hardware store. I purchased some at The Home Depot a few weeks back, and apprently it's pretty durable, and handles temps decently. My next GRS addition is to put foam in some areas, and maybe even on all three sides. I will once again coat it with the high-temp aluminum silicone shown in the photo above...

After some spirited driving yesterday with an E46 (on the way to a local MINI dealership), the IC outlet was much cooler than what I recall; and the MINI felt fantastic! I've got a leaky valve cover gasket (again ), which they confirmed... They are taking care of it, free of charge, most notably because it's a pre-existing condition (prior to the mods).

 

Thanks Bahamabart. I have acutally raised the rear of my GRS already by screwing in a short section of fuel hose on the rear mounts of the stock IC. Not only did this elevate my GRS but it also prevented the IC from banging on the driver side valve cover breather . I actually did this because of that later, as there are nothing holding the rear of the IC up unlike in the front where there are tabs (which I had to have rewelded since both of them broke off the IC).

Tony,
Maybe you could suggest to Graham to add a bracket to the rear of the IC. I think that a rear bracket is definetely needed, specially if you drive over bad roads like me. And by doing that, he could easily raise the rear portion of the IC for more flow. By the way, what's the gap between the diverter and the IC? Did you leave any gap at all or is it sitting right on top of the IC? Thanks!

John