Drivetrain Better SC?
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
Here's some dimensions comparing the MP45 and MP62
...
Looks like the body cross section is the same, just different length. Of course, you'd need to find an alternate way to circulate coolant.
...
Looks like the body cross section is the same, just different length. Of course, you'd need to find an alternate way to circulate coolant.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Originally Posted by ingsoc
PS: The other thing to remember is- the bigger the SC, the more parasitic loss. The stock blower already robs too much [%-wise] down low for my taste. I cannot imagine the lag with a SC for an engine twice ours' size. [I think that the 62 is for V6's around 4 litres, no?]
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/product.htm?code=gsup
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Yes. Why do you ask? If I fail to perform my duties at my job, I'm sure they'd have a problem with that.
Originally Posted by conehead
Andy just out of curiosity do Uwe and Linda have any idea how much company time you spend on here ?
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
That's only true if you are turning the same rpm at the same pressure (which would result in massively increasing the boost in the MCS). With a larger supercharger taking in larger gulps of air, you could slow it down and make the same boost using less power and creating less heat.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
BTW, my employer appreciates that I don't hide behind an anonymous username. I don't think I caught your name and employer ... they are? 
Originally Posted by conehead
Andy just out of curiosity do Uwe and Linda have any idea how much company time you spend on here ?
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,253
Likes: 0
From: NY NY
" (1/2 boost would require a pulley with 2x the circumference, ie a radius of [the square root of 2]*original. That is roughly 1.41 times as large in diameter!"
better brush up on your seventh grade math, eighth grade physics.
better brush up on your seventh grade math, eighth grade physics.
Last edited by jlm; Sep 8, 2005 at 03:40 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
BTW, my employer appreciates that I don't hide behind an anonymous username. I don't think I caught your name and employer ... they are?
No offense to conehead but that is funny
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by jlm
" (1/2 boost would require a pulley with 2x the circumference, ie a radius of [the square root of 2]*original. That is roughly 1.41 times as large in diameter!"
better brush up on your seventh grade math, eighth grade physics.
better brush up on your seventh grade math, eighth grade physics.
It needs to be twice as big. Thumbs up for peer editing! Anyways, the pulley needs to be a lot bigger.
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
Originally Posted by Bilbo-Baggins
The MCS has forged pistons, connecting rods and crankshaft. The MC does not. To supercharge the MC block would just be asking for trouble, IMHO
Crank - yes
Rods - yes
Pistons - no
Supposedly from a MINI training manual:
Crankshaft Assembly
The MINI COOPER crankshaft is machined from nodular cast iron. The MINI COOPER S crankshaft is machined from forged steel. Both crankshafts provide a mounting point for the crankshaft sensor reluctor ring that is retained by three bolts. The drive for the oil pump is provided by machined flats towards the front of the crankshaft. The auxiliary drive belt pulley is a press fit on the crankshaft and retained by a bolt.
Crankshaft Bearings
All MINI COOPER engines use five main bearings. Lubrication is supplied through holes in the upper shell directly from the main oil gallery. The upper shell is grooved to transport oil to the lower plain shells located in the bearing ladder.
A thrust washer built into the center upper main bearing shell controls crankshaft end float. The connecting rod and main bearing shells are made of an aluminum base that is rolled onto a carbon steel backing.
Connecting Rods
MINI COOPER connecting rods are manufactured from 'non-coplanar' powder metal. They are manufactured in one piece and then fractured across the big end journal. The MINI COOPER S connecting Rods are manufactured from forged steel to provide additional strength and are fractured. The big end bearings are of a conventional plain shell design with oil supplied from a hole in the crankshaft.
Pistons
The pistons are aluminum construction with a grafal coating applied to the skirt to reduce noise, friction, and scuffing. The MINI COOPER pistons have flat tops. The MINI COOPER S has a concave piston top with a volume of 1.66cc to reduce the compression ratio. Grafal coating consists of a fine colloidal graphite which is bonded with resin. It is between 10 and 20 micrometers thick and is applied by means of a printing process, followed by curing. Improved adhesion properties are achieved by a thin metallic phosphate layer or other proven methods which are applied prior to coating.
Rods - yes
Pistons - no
Supposedly from a MINI training manual:
Crankshaft Assembly
The MINI COOPER crankshaft is machined from nodular cast iron. The MINI COOPER S crankshaft is machined from forged steel. Both crankshafts provide a mounting point for the crankshaft sensor reluctor ring that is retained by three bolts. The drive for the oil pump is provided by machined flats towards the front of the crankshaft. The auxiliary drive belt pulley is a press fit on the crankshaft and retained by a bolt.
Crankshaft Bearings
All MINI COOPER engines use five main bearings. Lubrication is supplied through holes in the upper shell directly from the main oil gallery. The upper shell is grooved to transport oil to the lower plain shells located in the bearing ladder.
A thrust washer built into the center upper main bearing shell controls crankshaft end float. The connecting rod and main bearing shells are made of an aluminum base that is rolled onto a carbon steel backing.
Connecting Rods
MINI COOPER connecting rods are manufactured from 'non-coplanar' powder metal. They are manufactured in one piece and then fractured across the big end journal. The MINI COOPER S connecting Rods are manufactured from forged steel to provide additional strength and are fractured. The big end bearings are of a conventional plain shell design with oil supplied from a hole in the crankshaft.
Pistons
The pistons are aluminum construction with a grafal coating applied to the skirt to reduce noise, friction, and scuffing. The MINI COOPER pistons have flat tops. The MINI COOPER S has a concave piston top with a volume of 1.66cc to reduce the compression ratio. Grafal coating consists of a fine colloidal graphite which is bonded with resin. It is between 10 and 20 micrometers thick and is applied by means of a printing process, followed by curing. Improved adhesion properties are achieved by a thin metallic phosphate layer or other proven methods which are applied prior to coating.
4th Gear
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
[QUOTE=Eric_Rowland]Crank - yes
Rods - yes
Pistons - no
Many thanks...
I know that some have replaced their MCS pistons with forged ones. Oh, the modification list goes on and on
. Perhaps a sign of sanity is the recognition of when to stop or why one shouldn't even start going down the slippery slope of the modification highway ...
Rods - yes
Pistons - no
Many thanks...
I know that some have replaced their MCS pistons with forged ones. Oh, the modification list goes on and on
. Perhaps a sign of sanity is the recognition of when to stop or why one shouldn't even start going down the slippery slope of the modification highway ...
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by RECOOP
Perhaps a sign of sanity is the recognition of when to stop or why one shouldn't even start going down the slippery slope of the modification highway ...
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by ingsoc
Would you rather that they didn't share what data they know of? They don't have a dyno of their own [it was done independently and the results were shared...]. So, what are they supposed to do? Tell and be criticized or don't tell and be criticized?
They don't have a dyno of their own [it was done independently and the results were shared...]. So, what are they supposed to do? Tell and be criticized or don't tell and be criticized? I'm sorry but the NO DYNO just doesnt cut it, It would be a minimum outlay to take a car to the dyno after each stage of modification for a $100 power run!!!!!
I know M7 have their very own bunch of disciples who would buy their products regardless of data or performance, and that may be all they are looking for?? but I'm also sure that the increased market share they would pick up by having a proper test & data system in place would more than cover their dyno time expenses.
John.
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by M7
Extreme.....
[font="]
What can I say, if you like to find faults with us, and our products go ahead. But the bottom line is we did dyno the upgrade and it did give us
17whp. If you think that's a huge claim
The 16% pulley is a measly 1.3% change in gearing, let's give the gearing
3whp, the MTH map was a standard map, that will give you 4-5whp at the most, the rest is from the SC IE. 8-9whp I find that a very acceptable [/font][font="] for $695.[/font]
[font="]
As for not showing Dyno runs......this thread proves why, no one (some)
will ever believe you no matter what.
If you need more info please call me, as I am to busy to hang out on the forum, talking endlessly about something we already gone over.
peter
Team M7
562-608-8123 [/font]
I was thinking more of the huge claims you were making about the AGS before you went all quiet on the subject
I dont see anybody here argueing the dyno numbers you have provided, only that they are not relevent to the supercharger porting
Surely you see where people are coming from?John.
1st Gear
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
Wanted: Looking for one certifiable fool with stock MCS to run errands.
Important: Must take time off work from McDonald's and use your own savings for this task.
Specifics: Take MCS, go to the dyno shop, run it, take the front end off, jack the motor, remove the SC, install new SC, reassemble, run it again, send data to everyone.
Reward: None. You're doing this because you don't have a life and desperately hope this altruistic effort will gain you friendship among the elitest number guys. They will no doubt tell you that you took too long inbetween runs, therefore, the data is useless and you get a wedgy + a whirly :smile:
Important: Must take time off work from McDonald's and use your own savings for this task.
Specifics: Take MCS, go to the dyno shop, run it, take the front end off, jack the motor, remove the SC, install new SC, reassemble, run it again, send data to everyone.
Reward: None. You're doing this because you don't have a life and desperately hope this altruistic effort will gain you friendship among the elitest number guys. They will no doubt tell you that you took too long inbetween runs, therefore, the data is useless and you get a wedgy + a whirly :smile:
Thread Starter
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OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted by Angus
What's a whirly? I might be interested.
Fortunatly for me, "Kung Fu" was a very popular show then...:smile:Same as Swirly, Head mop, Toilet brush...
1st Gear
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
Trust me, you would definitely NOT be interested. Back in the 70's high school, if you were a "nerd" unlucky enough to be caught in the "john" by a group of "jocks", they'd lift you up by your ankles and lowered your head into the toilet and another would flush it for you Fortunatly for me, "Kung Fu" was a very popular show then...:smile:
Same as Swirly, Head mop, Toilet brush...
Fortunatly for me, "Kung Fu" was a very popular show then...:smile:Same as Swirly, Head mop, Toilet brush...