I'm still holding out hope that Webb Motorsports or M7 will release a production version of the twinscrew kits they were working on, as posted on a prior thread here.

That's about the only thing that might make me replace the one I have now- unless, of course, I break it.

 

Honestly, I believe it was long-ago canned because of currency exchange rates and [I would bet] it's higher cost compared to the twin-chargers. I think it was pretty close, performance-wise, to the output of the TC kit.

 

As I recall, the report from the tuner of the “car at its limits” was of a greater power loss after installing the M7 SC until an aggressive tune was applied to bring it close to the original numbers. In any case a loss is still no gain for that vehicle no matter how you spin it.

On the other hand here is a report of a gain from an Endyn modified blower found right here on NAM. The car was not at its limits yet but, not too far from it. Post #18 gives some clarification on reading the numbers. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...n+supercharger

 

Agreed!

And in saying that, if any call was to be made re: gains with the new SC, it would be (very quickly) followed by shouts for dynos, followed by lousy arguements, defenses, theories etc .

 

The new map was required because the SC was flowing more air. I believe that I remember the Endyn post [read it a long time ago...]. The thing, as I remember, was that he was leaning out and losing power because the ECU was intervening after the blower was installed. They had to dial in a more rich mixture to make power again. That makes total sense to me, so I think I remember right. But, when the mixtures were correct, I believe he lost 2 or so. Basically in the end he couldn't flow the extra air efficiently? :smile:

 

OK.... M7, I think this thread was started as a way for those who are trying to decide if supercharger porting/polishing would be a worthwhile. At $695, how many extra horses do we get to ride on? That's it. Let's tweak it. What does it mean that a car is "at its limit"? If a part is presented as a performance upgrade, that should mean it does something better than the stock part. So... whether it's the same or -2 on a dyno, and it is claimed to make more horsepower, then that is not cost effective.
The point is if you put parts out and make claims by saying yes they increase the performance, perhaps you should be the one to dyno this stuff properly and make accurate claims. If it doesn't make horsepower, then what does it do? That standard should be applied to M7, Endyne or any other tuner.
The bottom line on this issue is that there probably not much to be had here when it comes to making more power.

 

Mr. Cosmic (I know who you are)

Again.... we did dyno the JCW and the gained hp was incredibly good.
If we add up the cost SC $695.....16% pulley $129....MTH $75
that's a grand total of $899 that's barely more then an exhaust system
and I guarantee you there isn't an exhaust on the market that will give you
anything close to 17WHP. As for the car with absolutly eveything done to it
we can only guess that we more or less met the proverbial brick wall.

peter

 

Peter,

All due respect, (I am not one of your detractors) where do you think that leaves me?

 

So the only dyno testing done on the M7 blower (not throwing on other parts as well) netted a loss of power, correct? How much hp of the 17 whp on the JCW car was due to the MTH tune? How much from the pulley change? How much from the ported blower?

I haven't seen dynos to back it up, but MTH claims 200 bhp from their "Tuner file" alone:

http://www.mth-powerchip.de/_neu1407/e_index.php

That's more than 17 whp by most calculations.

Have any cars been tested before installing the M7 blower, and after the M7 blower (no other parts changed, and NOT lost power?

 

Let me be clear....... if this mod would add 10 or more whp I would go for it. If I had the flow charts from Randy on my head....is there any way I can tell if a ported SC will net the results I'm looking for?

 

That MTH tune was replacing a JCW tune, not a stock tune. I guarantee you that that did not make 17 whp. Probably only a few, say 5 whp. The pulley went from 14.7 to 16. Again, only a couple at most. That probably leaves 10 from just the blower.

 

There is a dyno chart (yes, real evidence) of a Tuner map gaining 10whp over a JCW map. I'll find it and post it, but the person's name is vader.

 

Instead of guessing which mod resulted in which gain, why wouldn't you just dyno the m7 blower without any other changes? Again, have there been any dynos done that showed the m7 blower gaining, rather than losing, horsepower?

 

Here is the post I was referring to. Gain of 13hp over JCW software.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...&postcount=529

 

The problem is that, who puts a modded blower on an otherwise stock MCS,......no one! It is a "way down the road" mod for almost everyone......whether it should be or not. Doing a dyno on a "stock" car is meaningless.......those of us with lots of mods.....probably the most likely market for a modded SC, can not count on the same gains. So why do I want to invest my money in a part that gains X WHP on a stock car but 0 on mine. There would have to be a succession of dynos done with other parts added in and in different configs to determine benefits for differing cars. This is not a trivial expense and I would like to get a better understanding of what I can expect for WHP gains.

The "at its limit" factor is a moving target......what does that mean?

Because mods are not additive, there is a "compression" of benefit depending on the car, is there anyone out there with a similar car to mine who has modded the SC that can contribute?

 

Yes, Mr M7 , I am definitely not one of your detractors. Only a very interested potential buyer. But... if i buy your supercharger upgrade, i want to know, not speculate, that i will be getting something for what i am paying. That is all. So please, a simple before and after dyno test using only an upgraded supercharger. Thanks.

 

I don't think Andy is asking for a "before and after" dyno on a stock MCS

 

The tuner map DID NOT EXIST when this SC was installed. This was months ago. There is a reason why the tuner map makes more power- it costs more. We're talking original MTH here.

Also, Andy, dyno's cost money. Why would anyone who clearly isn't **** spend the money to satisfy unknown minorities [like you], if they would be satisfied?

 

YEP....

Frankly, I would rather buy from M7 or one of the MINI vendors rather than people who may be competent but don't actively support the Mini.

 

I was agreeing with Andy, in saying that adding 3 parts at the same time then dynoing does not mean that the SC made all the power. The 16% belt, and the MTH could be making all the power, and the SC is just along for the ride. We will not know for certain on that one, since the SC was not installed on its own, and tested against the original SC in a scientific manner (Control, Test #1 part, Test #2 part, test #3 part, test #1+2+3, to show individual results as well as total cumulative results).

 

Wanted: Looking for one certifiable fool with stock MCS to run errands.

Important: Must take time off work from McDonald's and use your own savings for this task.

Specifics: Take MCS, go to the dyno shop, run it, take the front end off, jack the motor, remove the SC, install new SC, reassemble, run it again, send data to everyone.

Reward: None. You're doing this because you don't have a life and desperately hope this altruistic effort will gain you friendship among the elitest number guys. They will no doubt tell you that you took too long inbetween runs, therefore, the data is useless and you get a wedgy + a whirly :smile:

 

You know what......OK, a lightly modded engine.......

 

Come on be serious M7 are selling the products, if they ever want to be taken serious, they need to back up the HUGE claims they keep making with real data, And fitting 3 different products at the same time is not the way..

But hang on!!! why spend their money on a dyno run?? if they wait long enough, somebody will hand the hat around the forum Its just not good business.

 

Would you rather that they didn't share what data they know of? They don't have a dyno of their own [it was done independently and the results were shared...]. So, what are they supposed to do? Tell and be criticized or don't tell and be criticized?

 

The market is so small for this stuff that R&D beyond what the OEMs do for other cars is not too practical.... Sid....caustically makes a good point.

It seems reasonable to me to guestimate the performance gains based on the 3 mods. This was not an R& D but rather an install...... time and money you know....the customer was more than willing to go this route. My guess is that it was not abo0ut providing numbers to the community but rather to help an individual to make more power. All this R&D costs $ and the economies just are not there. I go back to my "it is easier to critique than create" I don't need an absolute I would just like an "about" guestimate......based on experience. I have some parts on my car that were disapoinments but I have not flamed the vendors.... I don't believe they are trying to rip me off or pull something....they are giving it their best efforts........someone flamed me a while back because I wanted better testing on a part that could dangerously affect aerodynamics.....that is dangerous......a few hp here and there is a disappomintment

Peter or Randy.....take this offline if you like and PM me what you think I can expect.....no feet to the fire here......there is a certain amount of "buyer beware" bleeding edge that I am more than willing to assume.