some engines might be assembled better than others and develop a few more hp (like main and rod bearing clearance, piston/bore fit, etc.). Also Helix just did some interesting exhaust system testing for a customer; he tried several exhausts, dyno'ing for the max and was able to get 8 more hp using a custom set-up than with any of the others, but you'll have to get the details from Eric.

When Hubie was tuning my Apex'i, we both felt there was at least another 5-10 to be had.

All in all, I think 240 is believable.

 

Do you know if this custom exhaust is single sided or dual?

John.

 

I have seen 256 whp at 8500 rpm. 19%, light crank, p+p everything, full exhaust, lots of special sauce. I'm pretty sure that thic car is the highest in the world, partly because my bud has custom hacked the ecu and pulled out 8500. He runs it all day long at the track, too, without failure.

 

It starts at about that time and finishes when the last car is done. With 10-15 cars that usually means early afternoon.

Bill

 

now 256 is a dyno sheet that i would love to see! Wow that looks awesome i would love to see the dyno sheet on it!


Also was he running upgraded springs and retainers in the head?

 

We have yet to see less than 222 WHP on a car with our complete Stage 4 Package.

The average is right around 230, with results up to 240 at the wheels on the rare occasion.

Our current in house car with our complete stage 4 package is putting out right around 232 at the wheels, and we'd be happy to repeat it for anyone I can throw up a few dyno charts of different Madness Stage 4 cars on Monday if you'd like.

I would also like to add that our stage 4 kit is nothing but reliable. At this point in time we have two sponsored racers, both with stage 4 cars putting out around 230 at the wheels. Steve Diniz is strictly a race car, whereas Norm uses his as a daily driver (like most of our Stage 4 customers) but races on the side. I can have a dyno chart of both cars up on monday, below are two videos of Steve racing (and beating) a Porsche 993.

Norm drives his car from coast to coast several times a year and has yet to have any issues. Many of our kits have 50k-75k miles on them and they're still running great. In fact we have yet to have any performance related issues (Other than things being installed wrong when not done by us) with ANY of the 20+ Stage 4 packages we've sold. We will NOT sell a product or a package without testing said product on the track. We stand behind our products 100%.

http://www.mini-madness.com/movies/mm2.wmv
http://www.mini-madness.com/movies/mm4.wmv

 

another 15-20 hp is not un-imaginable if the head can keep breathing, valves not floating, etc. revving 1500 rpm higher. must run the **** out of the SC though,

I notice that 150 to 200hp can cost 2k. and 150 to 230 (head and cam, etc) costs 5k...ouch!

 

I have looked at the specs on you stage 4 kit and what i want to know is how are you getting the power....you seem to have found a way to get about 15-25 more that others with similar products?

 

What I meant by hard to get over 200 was on the wallet. It is relatively easy to get to 200-230 as long as you have the money to spend. I think Andy@RossTech brought up a great point - what is the cost when compared to a twin charged car for the same output?

We can easily get the dyno to show 230+, but the testing we do shows consistent hot numbers and we use SAE correction factors which are a bit more conservative.

As for the car running to 8500RPM, what valve springs are you running? What cam profile? The testing we did found that the stock valve springs allow float at about 7800 RPM, that's the only reason I ask. I also wonder what cam profile works at that range, which is why I ask that. Nice job on getting the car to work at that RPM!

As far as reliability goes, that is my primary concern, as Webb Motorsports warranties everything in writing that we do, even for track cars. Because of that, I do more testing with more collectable points of data than anyone I am aware of in the industry - our track is $60 for the day, and we are out there on average once a week. We also sponsor track and autocross cars, including National Champions, and that data is also used in our collection.

We just had a car leave here with 268 WHP SAE corrected at full operating temp, but we didn't use the stock supercharger. We are working on other kits as well that will push this envelope without pushing reliability. With tuning, we have a current set up that allows for over 300WHP, but again, the thread was about the stock supercharger. For the money, getting 230WHP out of the stock supercharger just isn't worth it. The car is a blast with 180WHP, and that can be had for a little over $1000!

There are several routes to take - I applaud the 8500RPM car, the Helix kit, the SPI kit, El Diablito's car, the RMS kit, the MINI-Madness kits, and anyone else who can reliably push the MINI envelope. We truly have a great community!

Randy

 

What supercharger are you using?

 

Right now, the Eaton with a GT28RS turbo.

I am also working on a TurboKompressor kit using the Autorotor, but need to source the blower. That should be capable of over 400 hp reliably.

Randy

 

300 whp, that is a WRC territory. Great job guys

Berk

 

It is amazing what these little 1.6L motors are capable of.

The next obstacle with the new idea kit is the piston rings. Once that hurdle has been jumped, I really do think we will be able to get 400!!

Randy

 

Similar but not the same. I can go into detail if you'd like, but I'd rather not do it publicly. (at least on NAM anyway, for obvious reasons)


Randy is right, we've got a great community and we do an excellent job at pushing the limits of these little cars.

Our turbo setup is currently making around 310 hp reliably... although we've got much more testing to do to prove it's ready for the masses. In reality we're just waiting on the software that we're currently developing in conjunction with EVOtech before it goes into production. Another couple months I'd say.


Cant wait to see where the tuning community is a year from now, should be interesting to say the least.

 

Here are a couple dyno charts from our stage 4 cars. Rusty's as well which is already on the first page.

 

Another

 

I notice the before runs are actually quite high as well. What are the base runs in the above runs, and do you know what correction factor was used? Nice runs!

Thanks,
Randy

 

I really like what you guys are doing, but the problem is every new model year you seem to have new problems to work with, I have a 2005 and right now I'm not sure what to do, at first I had the JCW in mind until I found this site, then the twin charge, now I found out about the Cosworth package and since I just sold a Cosworth Vega 2 weeks ago after owning it for 6 years, I know how reliable Cosworth can be but there's a glitch right now and I'm waiting for more testing, the 2005 doesn't like the 62 mm throttle body, so until I find someone who has a tested package that works on a 2005, I'm in the learning mode, eventually I'll know what I want, I did buy F1 GS-D3 tires and wheels, and the PSS9, I just got the car 2 days ago and already have the tires on, the suspension kit is in transit, should be here this week.
I also own a 450 hp ZR1 but I sure like that Mini, I picked it up Friday night and 22 hours later I already had 1250 miles on it.

I did a power to weight ratio to get the power of my wife's 95 Z28 and come up with 13.1 lb/hp, so to match that with the Mini, I need 206 hp and to match my ZR1, I would need around 337, that is all crank not wheel, so I think if I can get between 200-230 at the wheel on the Mini and have a reliable little car, I'd be very happy with it and I think the Cosworth package can achieve that with a good header/exhaust, now if you guys have better suggestions, I'm listening.
Man that car is a lot of fun.

 

The car is a LOT of fun! My Cosworth car is even more fun . You definately will make that kind of power, especially with a header. I will be getting one eventually, to complete my car.

 

All I have to do now is wait and see what they'll do about the throttle body for the 05, the rest should be the same, and the exhaust, I need to find what's been installed on an 05 convertible without modification, supposedly it's not a direct fit for some, Magnaflow don't even have their 04-06 system yet, they have the P/N but no price and none made yet.

 

Hi Zrwon....

We are doing some testing on the TB's we are building, and I'm sure we will
solve the CEL problem very soon. It looks like the biggest hurdel is keeping the mass of air in check at low throttle positions.

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

Thanks Peter, in the mean time I'm putting money asside, it feels like winter here so I'm in no hurry, sounds like it will be a winter project at this point, one thing I forgot to ask but if I was to do it over the winter and since I have almost 7 months, will it be possible to have my own head instead of exchanging it, like how long is the turn around if you were to ship mine while you ship some cores and have the same one back?
I keep my cars a very long time and sometimes they become collectors and that's when the number matching thing becomes an issue, right now it doesn't matter but in 20 years I might say I wish I would have kept it all original. My Cosworth Vega was 30 years old and was 99% original, only the exhaust was not and it had only 34k miles on it and the buyer wanted it original or he wouldn't have bought it.

 

The average turnaround time has been 2 weeks, depending on how many
race engines are in Cosworths shop. We always have 2-3 cores in the shop at any given time, so if you don't mind a core exchange.....and remember that you get a serialized Cosworth head.

And feel free to call any time, to chat about the car....

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

 

Braggart: Helix has done more dyno runs, has more experience dynoing MINIs than any other MINI tuner. We have between 600 and 700 files on MINIs alone. We never use correction factors for any of our dyno numbers, because therein lies one of the many ways to fudge numbers.

Wet Blanket: As you can imagine, we have tested cars ranging from bone stock to every modification under the sun. We have never seen a car make more than 200whp (uncorrected) without a turbo or nitrous. Two cars have come close but no cigar. The below quote is true that Mustangs typically show lower numbers, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Our numbers match the numbers published by the manufacturer: a '05 MINI produces 150whp on our dyno. With a 12% drivetrain loss that is 168chp.

 

I'm not sure what issues you've been having, but we've installed complete stage 4 Madness kits on several '05 cars in house... and they're running great to this day.