Drivetrain Uh Oh....
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 1
From: NOT Lalaland, CA
Originally Posted by motorsports3
My point being... Before you start talking down the twincharge kit and say you wouldn'y buy anything from SPI, you might want to go and learn a thing ar two about the car you are building... I mean having built! Breaking things is part of being a tuner. Take your car and have it torn down and get back to us when you know what is actually know what is wrong.
In conclusion, to answer your original question, YES you should put your car back to stock, it looks like anything more than that just might be too much seat for you!
In conclusion, to answer your original question, YES you should put your car back to stock, it looks like anything more than that just might be too much seat for you!
5th Gear
Joined: May 2005
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From: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by red rage
That reference is from 2002, Things may be different now
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
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Mahle also makes very high quality forged pistons that are OEM on Porsches because they are made of an alloy that does not expand as much as traditional forged pistons. This means that tighter cold tolerances may be used to avoid this cold knock. More piston reading here: http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/eb20440.htm
And yes, Mahle is famous for coating technologies, having invented the Nikasil aluminum cylinder coating in 1967.
And yes, Mahle is famous for coating technologies, having invented the Nikasil aluminum cylinder coating in 1967.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
arg! having computer issues opening that document
i will go to my product breifs that are publsihed by MINI and see if i can find someone who scan the pages of those documents and post them here... give me sometime...
i will go to my product breifs that are publsihed by MINI and see if i can find someone who scan the pages of those documents and post them here... give me sometime...
5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
i don't think Motorsports3 point about having the occasional failure was understood properly...
i don't know how many of you have ever built highly modified cars before... but ANYONE who has knows that with all of those new shiny parts and hopes of power come headaches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please understand that i do not mean this as a put down to those who haven't built highly modified cars before... you just learn this stuff from experiance or experianced people... and please understand that i do not see myself as a MINI tuning god or anything like that... i just have ALOT of experiance playing with internal combustion engines... (because it doesn't matter whether its a MINI engine... a ford engine or whatever... its physics and thermodynamics when it comes down to it! for the most part an engine is an engine is an engine... there are three baiscs to making them all run or run faster... compression, fuel and spark...)
but anyways...
highly modifed cars come hand in hand with problems... it will always happen... if you are looking for dead reliable horsepower without pushing the limits... stick to intakes... super charger pulleys... exhausts...throttle boddies... you know the simple bolt on kind of stuff... and leave it at that...
for the rest of you in the pursuit of high output... expect to break stuff... expect to have the car run shitty at idle or throw a check engine light etc... it just comes with the territory... you just learn from each of those experiances... and move on... and hopefully you will not break the same thing twice! Thats the goal! well that and tire shredding horsepower
i don't know how many of you have ever built highly modified cars before... but ANYONE who has knows that with all of those new shiny parts and hopes of power come headaches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please understand that i do not mean this as a put down to those who haven't built highly modified cars before... you just learn this stuff from experiance or experianced people... and please understand that i do not see myself as a MINI tuning god or anything like that... i just have ALOT of experiance playing with internal combustion engines... (because it doesn't matter whether its a MINI engine... a ford engine or whatever... its physics and thermodynamics when it comes down to it! for the most part an engine is an engine is an engine... there are three baiscs to making them all run or run faster... compression, fuel and spark...)
but anyways...
highly modifed cars come hand in hand with problems... it will always happen... if you are looking for dead reliable horsepower without pushing the limits... stick to intakes... super charger pulleys... exhausts...throttle boddies... you know the simple bolt on kind of stuff... and leave it at that...
for the rest of you in the pursuit of high output... expect to break stuff... expect to have the car run shitty at idle or throw a check engine light etc... it just comes with the territory... you just learn from each of those experiances... and move on... and hopefully you will not break the same thing twice! Thats the goal! well that and tire shredding horsepower
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally Posted by minims
Hmmm... in other words, don't bother with this mod unless you're willing to put up with the occasional major breakdown???
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 285
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally Posted by ingsoc
Lets run 2 power adders for a combined 22psi, when the factory motor is built for 11.6psi. I am sure you can double the boost and expect nothing major to happen here. Come on people these are MINI's not Supra's.
Once again, one cylinder lost 70% commpression and we still DO NOT have true reason why, just some of Zak's best guesses. Lets find out what really happened and then definitly not blame the manufacture for having a poor product but rather blame Zak for not building his car to handle what he expected out of it!
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
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22psi or 30psi is probably safe on nearly any turbo car... with a big intercooler and on race gas. However if there is any detonation at WOT even at stock boost levels then the engine won't live long, forged internals or no. Since a knock sensor must hear knock to work, it is perfectly possible for a bad tank of gas to result in one big knock that blows something up.
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6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
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Umm... Ok, First off I was expecting total engine failure, why has this thread blown into bits and pieces without me knowing? Second of all SPI has been what I could call,"Ignorant" with their knowledge clearly stating they never heard of any issues I was having when in fact if the person who posted that there are a few MINI's in the shop with the same situation of mine, they either don't know or they are truly hiding everything. I have been in contact with SPI and been trying to work out a deal.. Bottom line is I have just ordered just about forged everything for this car, Pistons, rods, you guess it, i have it. The engine was just totally taken out on Friday, I watched as they (Wheel 2 Wheel) neticulously carefully raised the MINI's chassis away from the MINI. I have also placed an order for a Spec Stage 2 clutch and an Aluminum Flywheel. I am also going to be telling the ones rebuilding the engine to specifically build it to be able to handle 350 hp, at 30lbs of boost for over 100k miles. I will NOT have 350 hp, but will rather leave it at the 249 whp it has right now. It is reliable, will beat almost ANY tuner car at a rolling start. I have come to the solution i will add a Bullet Muffler after the Borla non MINI specified Race muffler to rid the system of drones while at highway speeds. I will post another update when we have the info on the pistons and such. My speculations lie right now that the cylinfer 2 fuel injector is bad, or died for a period of time causing it to detonate and build up ALOT of pressure to cause such a failure. I will be sending all the injectors out to be flow tested and will report back later. For now I am stuck driving a POS Ford Taurus on the rainy and slimey days and the sunny days I am driving the 1947 Chevy Fleetmaster. Thanks for your support and comments and I hope to bring back wonderful news in the meantime.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 285
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally Posted by BFG9000
22psi or 30psi is probably safe on nearly any turbo car... with a big intercooler and on race gas.
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6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,506
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I have to blame the manufacturer of the product who claims,"this is a safe bolt on"
Originally Posted by motorsports3
Another internet warrior who wouldn't know how to properly build a car
Lets run 2 power adders for a combined 22psi, when the factory motor is built for 11.6psi. I am sure you can double the boost and expect nothing major to happen here. Come on people these are MINI's not Supra's.
Once again, one cylinder lost 70% commpression and we still DO NOT have true reason why, just some of Zak's best guesses. Lets find out what really happened and then definitly not blame the manufacture for having a poor product but rather blame Zak for not building his car to handle what he expected out of it!
Lets run 2 power adders for a combined 22psi, when the factory motor is built for 11.6psi. I am sure you can double the boost and expect nothing major to happen here. Come on people these are MINI's not Supra's.
Once again, one cylinder lost 70% commpression and we still DO NOT have true reason why, just some of Zak's best guesses. Lets find out what really happened and then definitly not blame the manufacture for having a poor product but rather blame Zak for not building his car to handle what he expected out of it!
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,253
Likes: 0
From: NY NY
maximus:
did i miss the part where you finally determined what went south? last I heard was speculation based on oily water and exhaust symptoms.
What the hell, from what I've seen, i'll bet most of the twincharger problems come from over-eager throttle blipping just to hear the wastegate. makes that engine jump around in there! I once heard it said that you should drive your high hp race car like you had an egg in between your foot and the throttle.
did i miss the part where you finally determined what went south? last I heard was speculation based on oily water and exhaust symptoms.
What the hell, from what I've seen, i'll bet most of the twincharger problems come from over-eager throttle blipping just to hear the wastegate. makes that engine jump around in there! I once heard it said that you should drive your high hp race car like you had an egg in between your foot and the throttle.
Last edited by jlm; Jul 30, 2005 at 12:19 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,288
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From: ann arbor michigan
first off this car is treated with a lot of respect and care, seeing as i am his brother, the motor was never over revved, it has the stock factory rev and speed limiter in it still. It was also never over revved on a downshift, i can assure you he wasnt playing with the throttle to hear the blow off valve seeing as he cant even hear it because he is 80% deaf and does mostly lip reading. This kit is advertised as being able to be put onto a stock MCS engine, go to this link and look at the first bullet point. My guess was the injector on cylinder number 2 malfunctioned and caused it to run lean therefore frying the piston ring. We expected headaches but not cancer surgery :smile:, all in all we will have a car that can be daily driven and be reliable after a fair amount of money is added to it. The reason we are not doing the work ourselves is because we want it done right by a reputable company with certified mechanics, i did not appreciate the stab saying "you might want to go and learn a thing ar two about the car you are building... I mean having built!" i assure we both know a fair amount about motors and the like. We have are reasons for having the work outourced.,
P.s. I appreciate the comments of support from most of the members.,
Ben
P.s. I appreciate the comments of support from most of the members.,
Ben
5th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 965
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by motorsports3
Another internet warrior who wouldn't know how to properly build a car
Lets run 2 power adders for a combined 22psi, when the factory motor is built for 11.6psi. I am sure you can double the boost and expect nothing major to happen here. Come on people these are MINI's not Supra's.
Once again, one cylinder lost 70% commpression and we still DO NOT have true reason why, just some of Zak's best guesses. Lets find out what really happened and then definitly not blame the manufacture for having a poor product but rather blame Zak for not building his car to handle what he expected out of it!
Lets run 2 power adders for a combined 22psi, when the factory motor is built for 11.6psi. I am sure you can double the boost and expect nothing major to happen here. Come on people these are MINI's not Supra's.
Once again, one cylinder lost 70% commpression and we still DO NOT have true reason why, just some of Zak's best guesses. Lets find out what really happened and then definitly not blame the manufacture for having a poor product but rather blame Zak for not building his car to handle what he expected out of it!
A slight misfire or lean condition in one cylinder might not be a problem under normal boost... but crank the boost way up and it will cause a major problem.
It looks like the owner is going about building the engine up the right way... It's only as strong as its weakest link.
Good luck with the rebuild!
Keep us updated!
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,253
Likes: 0
From: NY NY
Bear in mind that nobody had a clue what the stock internals could take...until Hubie pioneered his monster. there was a time when 200hp seemed reaching, then 250, 300, now he has pushed pasr 400. How else can you find out what breaks, eh? The farther you push the envelope, the higher the risk from smaller part failure.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,719
Likes: 1
From: New Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by mybroscoop
first off this car is treated with a lot of respect and care, seeing as i am his brother, the motor was never over revved, it has the stock factory rev and speed limiter in it still. It was also never over revved on a downshift, i can assure you he wasnt playing with the throttle to hear the blow off valve seeing as he cant even hear it because he is 80% deaf and does mostly lip reading. This kit is advertised as being able to be put onto a stock MCS engine, go to this link and look at the first bullet point. My guess was the injector on cylinder number 2 malfunctioned and caused it to run lean therefore frying the piston ring. We expected headaches but not cancer surgery :smile:, all in all we will have a car that can be daily driven and be reliable after a fair amount of money is added to it. The reason we are not doing the work ourselves is because we want it done right by a reputable company with certified mechanics, i did not appreciate the stab saying "you might want to go and learn a thing ar two about the car you are building... I mean having built!" i assure we both know a fair amount about motors and the like. We have are reasons for having the work outourced.,
P.s. I appreciate the comments of support from most of the members.,
Ben
P.s. I appreciate the comments of support from most of the members.,
Ben
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
unfortunatley no one ever expects the injetor to foul or anything to go wrong...but sadly when you start doing anything you are asking for problems...even a pulley can cause issues as some have found out and others not...it's the luck of the draw...I too an in to heavy modding of my MCS and have been so far been lucky. one could say I'm lucky cause nothign has fouled up...However, I suspect as the car reaches the rediculous WHP #s I intend to go for it will have some issues...if not...GREAT!! WHOO HOO! if so...oh well I'll deal with it...but in the end it's still fun.
It sucks that this happend..and at the same time now you will have an opportunity to open it up and learn more than what 95% of any other mini owner might know...That's what I have always enjoyed about working on cars...was just knowing what was going on...that's why no one else works on my car for the most part...so if and when it breaks I know why or can diagnose it "quickly"
Keep us updated on what's going on...those of us who ARE going to the outter lengths of modding are the ones that will help the rest of the comunity...even though some of us have been kicked out for being so knowledgable and savy
It sucks that this happend..and at the same time now you will have an opportunity to open it up and learn more than what 95% of any other mini owner might know...That's what I have always enjoyed about working on cars...was just knowing what was going on...that's why no one else works on my car for the most part...so if and when it breaks I know why or can diagnose it "quickly"
Keep us updated on what's going on...those of us who ARE going to the outter lengths of modding are the ones that will help the rest of the comunity...even though some of us have been kicked out for being so knowledgable and savy
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 1
From: Middle Earth
Originally Posted by Maximusmini
My question to you is; Based on the information provided, what would you do?
For photos of the kit itself and Vader please visit :
http://photobucket.com/albums/b278/maximusmini/
For photos of the kit itself and Vader please visit :
http://photobucket.com/albums/b278/maximusmini/
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by motorsports3
Do you think before you write things like this? Do you have any idea how much boost 30 psi is? I can only think of one maybe two factory motors that could handle that kind of boost. Then we could move on to factory non turbo motors that you put a turbo on. I don't think a single one would last at 30 psi.
.Do you think before you write things like this? Do you have any idea how much combustion pressures of 1000psi are, and how little 2 atmospheres of pressure are in comparison
? You've got more than that in your tires. Just look at the number of Fords and Chryslers running 30psi at the track with stock internals. The difference is the gas. Tuls and Mikem53 are correct, running near the edge increases the risk a minor problem becomes a catastrophic one. So the trick is to systematically fix all those problems when they appear, which is the unfortunate job of a... guinea pig. Someone has to do it and I salute the bravery of the early adopters.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,288
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From: ann arbor michigan
Thanks for the words of support, and i understand that with more hp come more problems, if anything people should see this as a learning experience, hell i learned how to pull a motor out of a MINI! ,
Bem
,Bem
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,432
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I’m with MINI USA. I’m so sorry to read about this problem with your twincharger kit. We are here to work with you and your Dealer, and we'd really like to help. If you would like our assistance, please phone us at (866)ASK.MINI and mention Reference # 200431700305-OVERBOOST so that we can help you more efficiently.
...sorry, I haven't heard that in a while.
...sorry, I haven't heard that in a while.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,223
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From: DC
Originally Posted by Maximusmini
Ok some of you have heard the issues regarding my Twincharged MCS. For those of you who don't know, I kept having exhaust leaks and suddenly one night i noticed oil smelling smoke coming through the exhaust. This made my mind click. At first I thought it would be the PCV as it was only running through a filter rather than being correctly plumbed. Nope, one of my worst nightmares was about to unfold. I took the car to Wheel 2 Wheel Powertrain to have it looked at since these guys know quite abit about engines. I called them just this morning after having them hold onto it for the weekend and asked the current situation. Now prepare yourselves, take a deep breath. What was about to be revealed took my breath away and made me go silent for a while. On the other end of the phone the exact words,"Zak, I'm afraid we have bad news. Cylinder number 2 has a compression loss of 70%." Now I thought,"Crap, ok,breathe, relax, it's not the end of the world." The statement made above from the mechanic brought me to think there could be one, two, or three things wrong. The first was a Piston ring has broke, the second being the piston blew, and the third being the block of the engine is cracked. Now here is my theory, guess number one couldn't be true, if there piston ring broke it would be about a 20% compression loss not 70. Guess number two is most likely accurate. Guess number three, while being a possibility I would like to sway my thoughts from this one as it would require a brand new engine.. This brings me to two decisions. But before those decisions, I want to express that I have not been able to enjoy my MINI aka Vader more than it has been in constant repair. So now the decisions, A: go back to stock or B; keep the twincharger and beef up the internals more and also the transmission. My question to you is; Based on the information provided, what would you do?
For photos of the kit itself and Vader please visit :
http://photobucket.com/albums/b278/maximusmini/
For photos of the kit itself and Vader please visit :
http://photobucket.com/albums/b278/maximusmini/